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Tilly- long post ...short question!


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My sister has a dog which to me looks like a border collie cross with something...tongue is bluish black id that gives any clues. Dog is black. Was found nearly starved a couple years ago behind her daughter's piano teacher's house... had laid there for a few days and the teacher was desperate to find someone to take the dog (stray dog, not the teachers).

 

So my sister agreed even though she had just lost their little old dog, and had another stray her daughter had brought home a couple years before that. That dog is a lab /aussie mix it appears. Now, Tilly, the border/something cross got along fairly well with the lab/aussie mix until said daughter had a baby she brought home.

 

The lab/aussie mix did not like the baby, and would not tolerate it around him much when he started crawling. Tilly on the other hand loved the baby. However, recently, it appears the lab/aussie mix is doing ok with the baby, but Tillie is not getting along with the lab/aussie when the family is around. She snarks at him, attacks his ear on mostly one side, They tell me he could be wearing many earrings due to her biting his ears so much. She seems a little sensitive mostly when approached on one side especially when in a crowded environment. She also tends to show a little owner resource guarding.

 

She has asked me if I will keep Tilly for awhile until the baby gets older. He is now 14 months, walking and at face level with the dogs, frequently right there when they snap and bite each other. (The lab/aussi could take the border/? out if he wanted too..., he keeps peace by letting Tilly chew on him without retaliation...)

 

I had them bring Tilly over to meet my Bess. They snarked a little in crowded conditions, but when let out onto the deck, they seemed alright.

Bess still does a little owner resource guarding with other dogs she meets that are more interested in me than her.

How can I make this work? Bess sleeps in a crate.

Tilly has not, however, they do have a large crate, and I asked them to start putting her in it at night for practice and see how it went.

Tilly is actually a sweet dog, I would hate to see her taken to a pound or put down when it seems it could be worked out in a less stressful atmosphere like my home. I don't want to short Bess either though. Right now, my sister and her family are stressed out enough with the grandchild raising/stubborn daughter raising/helping and their own hard work schedules. They don't have the reserve to deal with this.

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My sister has a dog which to me looks like a border collie cross with something...tongue is bluish black id that gives any clues. Dog is black. Was found nearly starved a couple years ago behind her daughter's piano teacher's house... had laid there for a few days and the teacher was desperate to find someone to take the dog (stray dog, not the teachers).

 

So my sister agreed even though she had just lost their little old dog, and had another stray her daughter had brought home a couple years before that. That dog is a lab /aussie mix it appears. Now, Tilly, the border/something cross got along fairly well with the lab/aussie mix until said daughter had a baby she brought home.

 

The lab/aussie mix did not like the baby, and would not tolerate it around him much when he started crawling. Tilly on the other hand loved the baby. However, recently, it appears the lab/aussie mix is doing ok with the baby, but Tillie is not getting along with the lab/aussie when the family is around. She snarks at him, attacks his ear on mostly one side, They tell me he could be wearing many earrings due to her biting his ears so much. She seems a little sensitive mostly when approached on one side especially when in a crowded environment. She also tends to show a little owner resource guarding.

 

She has asked me if I will keep Tilly for awhile until the baby gets older. He is now 14 months, walking and at face level with the dogs, frequently right there when they snap and bite each other. (The lab/aussi could take the border/? out if he wanted too..., he keeps peace by letting Tilly chew on him without retaliation...)

 

I had them bring Tilly over to meet my Bess. They snarked a little in crowded conditions, but when let out onto the deck, they seemed alright.

Bess still does a little owner resource guarding with other dogs she meets that are more interested in me than her.

How can I make this work? Bess sleeps in a crate.

Tilly has not, however, they do have a large crate, and I asked them to start putting her in it at night for practice and see how it went.

Tilly is actually a sweet dog, I would hate to see her taken to a pound or put down when it seems it could be worked out in a less stressful atmosphere like my home. I don't want to short Bess either though. Right now, my sister and her family are stressed out enough with the grandchild raising/stubborn daughter raising/helping and their own hard work schedules. They don't have the reserve to deal with this.

 

What do you think is actually going on between the dogs? If the baby is right there when they start in, then maybe they're fighting over the baby, which is not a good thing. Is Tillie saying, wait a minute, I've liked this baby from the beginning and you can't have him now that you've decided to like him?

 

One of the things that brings shudders to me is mixing toddlers and any kind of dog. No matter how well behaved, or well mannered, or tolerant, the baby is just too darned little. My immediate suggestion would be to crate both dogs, confine them away from the baby when they're lose, and give them proper exercise time away from the baby, while you work out further details such as whether or not you want to take the dog...

 

Liz

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I forgot to add...my yard isn't fenced yet. (it would really help if it were...) I have a trolley line I put Bess on for potty time . Otherwise, I put her on on the deck to let har have unsupervised closely outside sunshine time. It is chicken wired in the spots closest to the sloping ground to keep the cat in, and has a gate.

 

I'm not 100 % sure the baby is the cause of contention... I think there was some tension there prior...but the extra stress perhaps has exacerbated it.

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My sister has a dog which to me looks like a border collie cross with something...tongue is bluish black id that gives any clues. Dog is black. Was found nearly starved a couple years ago behind her daughter's piano teacher's house... had laid there for a few days and the teacher was desperate to find someone to take the dog (stray dog, not the teachers).

 

So my sister agreed even though she had just lost their little old dog, and had another stray her daughter had brought home a couple years before that. That dog is a lab /aussie mix it appears. Now, Tilly, the border/something cross got along fairly well with the lab/aussie mix until said daughter had a baby she brought home.

 

The lab/aussie mix did not like the baby, and would not tolerate it around him much when he started crawling. Tilly on the other hand loved the baby. However, recently, it appears the lab/aussie mix is doing ok with the baby, but Tillie is not getting along with the lab/aussie when the family is around. She snarks at him, attacks his ear on mostly one side, They tell me he could be wearing many earrings due to her biting his ears so much. She seems a little sensitive mostly when approached on one side especially when in a crowded environment. She also tends to show a little owner resource guarding.

 

She has asked me if I will keep Tilly for awhile until the baby gets older. He is now 14 months, walking and at face level with the dogs, frequently right there when they snap and bite each other. (The lab/aussi could take the border/? out if he wanted too..., he keeps peace by letting Tilly chew on him without retaliation...)

 

I had them bring Tilly over to meet my Bess. They snarked a little in crowded conditions, but when let out onto the deck, they seemed alright.

Bess still does a little owner resource guarding with other dogs she meets that are more interested in me than her.

How can I make this work? Bess sleeps in a crate.

Tilly has not, however, they do have a large crate, and I asked them to start putting her in it at night for practice and see how it went.

Tilly is actually a sweet dog, I would hate to see her taken to a pound or put down when it seems it could be worked out in a less stressful atmosphere like my home. I don't want to short Bess either though. Right now, my sister and her family are stressed out enough with the grandchild raising/stubborn daughter raising/helping and their own hard work schedules. They don't have the reserve to deal with this.

Do you think that dog could be chow cross? Chows have black tongues and can be all black. That might explain some of the personality issues. I take care of a black chow cross and she can be snarky. I always am pretty careful how I handle her. She is very independent and really doesn't like to be told what to do. But she lives with 5 other dogs and a cat and she does just fine. She's just kind of aloof.

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Could you offer to try it for a set period of time before making a final decision? Say, a month? That would give the two dogs time to get used to each other and settle in, and it would give you a chance to work out management issues and see if it will really be workable.

 

Obviously, if there were a serious clash, you would have to make other arrangements sooner, but it seems to me that they should be flexible with you since you are offering a HUGE favor.

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yeah.. I'm home Thursday -Saturday, Most of Sunday,and thought it would be helpful to be here to watch interactions... Hating thought of having to have to crate them for so long on Mondays and Wednesday. But yeah... I think they are just happy to have someplace the dog can go where they still will get to see it .(We see each other at least once a month if not more...). I'm hoping Daughter&baby gets out on their own after this semester...yowza...way too much stress for me!

Thanks Kristine... yes... a trial is good.

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Tilly woke up in the middle of the night the last couple of nights screaming, so my sis took her to the vet. he moved her head this way and that, and decided when she screamed when he moved it a certain way tha tshe has a pinched nerve...so she has to be crated and is on meds right now for awhile. Sis doesn't want to traumatize her any more this week so she is going to hang on to her for now and see if this doesn't change anything.

Thanks for the input ... If I do keep her for awhile later, I hope I have a fence of some sort by then. 2 sides have neighbor fences... really, an underground fence along the other side and maybe around the flower beds to keep the dog out is all that might be needed...

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  • 4 weeks later...

Well, My sister brought Tillie over today and they got along ok for a little sniffy sniff on the deck. Then, when I was going to go inside, they snarked at each other, and then decided to fight... I had to wait until I could get a clear grab for the larger of the 2's leash ...nearly choked her pulling her off of Bess. no blood...didn't find any punctures. Looks like it is going to be crate and rotate for both of them until I can figure out how to handle all this. Maybe taking both back to obedience school with both hubby and I participating will help... each one with a dog. I think I never really taught her go to place and her stay isn't the best...still working on it. I think Tillie had some obedience, but will need to brush that up and extend it somewhat when she is a little more comfortable. For now, I am happy that I have a deck, an outside down below, and large crates. I won't continue if it doesn't improve. It isn't a fun life for anyone when it must be constantly managed. I am pretty sure my sister can find Tilly a home by herself if I can't work things out, but I want to give it a try...although the fight really embarrassed me, because it showed me my dog is rather possessive of human attention also. She pretty much showed me I can take just this much of that sharing stuff and no more.

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Well, My sister brought Tillie over today and they got along ok for a little sniffy sniff on the deck. Then, when I was going to go inside, they snarked at each other, and then decided to fight... I had to wait until I could get a clear grab for the larger of the 2's leash ...nearly choked her pulling her off of Bess. no blood...didn't find any punctures. Looks like it is going to be crate and rotate for both of them until I can figure out how to handle all this. Maybe taking both back to obedience school with both hubby and I participating will help... each one with a dog. I think I never really taught her go to place and her stay isn't the best...still working on it. I think Tillie had some obedience, but will need to brush that up and extend it somewhat when she is a little more comfortable. For now, I am happy that I have a deck, an outside down below, and large crates. I won't continue if it doesn't improve. It isn't a fun life for anyone when it must be constantly managed. I am pretty sure my sister can find Tilly a home by herself if I can't work things out, but I want to give it a try...although the fight really embarrassed me, because it showed me my dog is rather possessive of human attention also. She pretty much showed me I can take just this much of that sharing stuff and no more.

 

 

 

You are a very good sister! Best of luck

 

P.S. My sister had a chow and the tongue was entirely black - that dog had a BIG attitude problem. Brodie has a black spot on his tongue and he's 100% ABCA Border Collie...He's got spots all over him...so does Robin. Goofy dogs :rolleyes:.

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Has Tilly had a full vet workup? Maybe she isn't feeling well - maybe it's more than a pinched nerve or maybe the nerve is still causing her pain - hence the personality change. Maybe she is stressed around other dogs. Vala used to be VERY nervous around other dogs when she felt really sick; she would even snark a little if they got too close, because she was scared and wasn't feeling well and knew she couldn't protect herself. But now she is much calmer around other dogs though she still prefers human interaction.

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Tilly was taken to the vet when all that nerve stuff happened. She is ok from that standpoint, although, I think her coat feels a little rough, but maybe I am spoiled by Bess' lovely soft coat. Tilly is overweight and seems short of breath and pants a lot and has a very heavy coat that is shorn a bit... I suppose to keep the shedding down and so they can get a comb or brush through it. She has a lovely tail.

 

Actually, Bess was not a happy camper, However, Tilly was displaying nice manners in general with the exception of the fight.. and she growled when Bess went over and went ballistic at Tilly's crate this evening. I have them in a same area but not close and a blanket over Tilly's crate now. Bess has the side to her blocked by the sofa anyway. I do think I will put Tilly's crate downstairs tomorrow for when I am at work to reduce any chance of smack talk between them.

 

Someone mentioned parallel walking in a thread I came across when I was searching for resource guarding..., so Hubby and I took them on a 20 minute walk, trying to keep them like that. They did ok after they quit trying to look over at each other every couple of seconds.... How far apart is recommended for that? I tried to keep between 3-5 feet... 5 to begin and got closer as they got more comfortable. Not giving them enough slack to get close enough to contact each other.

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Tilly was taken to the vet when all that nerve stuff happened. She is ok from that standpoint, although, I think her coat feels a little rough, but maybe I am spoiled by Bess' lovely soft coat. Tilly is overweight and seems short of breath and pants a lot and has a very heavy coat that is shorn a bit... I suppose to keep the shedding down and so they can get a comb or brush through it. She has a lovely tail.

 

Actually, Bess was not a happy camper, However, Tilly was displaying nice manners in general with the exception of the fight.. and she growled when Bess went over and went ballistic at Tilly's crate this evening. I have them in a same area but not close and a blanket over Tilly's crate now. Bess has the side to her blocked by the sofa anyway. I do think I will put Tilly's crate downstairs tomorrow for when I am at work to reduce any chance of smack talk between them.

 

Someone mentioned parallel walking in a thread I came across when I was searching for resource guarding..., so Hubby and I took them on a 20 minute walk, trying to keep them like that. They did ok after they quit trying to look over at each other every couple of seconds.... How far apart is recommended for that? I tried to keep between 3-5 feet... 5 to begin and got closer as they got more comfortable. Not giving them enough slack to get close enough to contact each other.

 

The parallel walking I've done and seen done is yes about 3 feet apart. If you do it every day for twenty minutes for a week (or maybe even the whole time Tilly is there) maybe they will come to trust each other better. It seems important to have them doing organized activities together at first, closely watched, and sharing things, so maybe they can learn neither is a threat. But this sort of thing does take a couple months from what I understand, to get dogs truly used to one another. And of course, if Bess went ballistic at Tilly's crate, I wouldn't be surprised that Tilly growled! Poor Tilly's world has been disordered and new for a long time now!

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Yes, Mary, that eats at my heart a little... she was my Baby so to speak.. we spend all our time I am home together...her world is indeed quite topsy turvy. If I can work her through this, I would like to foster someday. If I can't, I know I wasn't meant to foster.

I just don't want her to think all dogs are cause for alarm now though... she was friendly with Tillly before, so I understand her not thinking that pooch should be here. Hopefully they can get back to friendly if we can get the triggers worked out of them.

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Make sure you're not transfering your nerves to the situation down to the dogs.

If I'm the least bit upset my dogs feel it. Probably more than I do.

 

If there was no blood drawn I'd look at that as a good thing. Means they're working things out more than they're trying to kill each other. Doesn't mean they will learn to get along but it means that they are at least aware of how hard they are fighting.

 

Good luck.

BTW some of my BC's have black on their tongue, and Lilly the pure Akbash had a couple of black spots on hers too so I don't think the black tongue is much on telling what she's mixed with.

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Sigh... another fight...no blood. Tilly jumped the baby gate on the stairs when I went up to get their meals ready. Bess looked like she may have started it, but was willing to be called off, but Tilly went after Bess again when she started to go to my hubby when he called.

Fire extinguishers don't exactly break it up... but it did get them to pause long enough for me to grab a collar and hubby to grab the smaller one. What a salty mess! Could hardly breathe! Hubby said... so fire extinguishers work for A-B- & C type fires, but not D! (dog)

Lesson learned... Tilly will jump the gate! More security detail on her!

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