Robin the pest!

[ejano]

I know with ten month old pups, there can never be enough exercise and game playing, especially after a week of enforced rest after neuter surgery, but I'm being forced to arm myself with a fly swatter just to sit down and watch TV. I've gradually been giving the boys more and more freedom with the goal of giving them the run of the house during the day when I"m home. (this in anticipatiion of the kennel in the mud room, which I might see by the Second Coming, but that's another story...)

 

When he is out of his crate, and I am sitting, working at the computer, on the phone, or just trying to read a book, Robin is a regular pain in the neck about constantly butting my hand to get my attention. I keep a clicker on my desk and I started rewarding him with a click and a treat when he wanders up and sits nicely but that just encourages him to greater efforts....and now, I can't get rid of the other two either!

 

He knows "That'll do" and "leave it" that, coupled with waving the fly swatter around, eventually gets him to go do something else but I don't want to punish him for wanting to be friendly and play, but enough is enough already! This is the same sort of stuff he was doing to Brodie out in the yard and the cat in the house. Pester, pester, pester. He just doesn't recognize when enough is enough.

 

Brodie and Ladybug will come up and just touch my hand with their nose to say hi then wander off. Robin charges up and butts his head against my hand. Tonight, I swear he smacked me in the nose with my OWN hand just by putting his nose under my wrist and flinging it up in the air. When I tell him to back off, I feel like I"m rejecting my sweet little puppy but he's really a fifty pound pain in the neck!.

 

We do train and walk during the day (I walk, they run) to burn off energy, but with Robin it's never enough. Brodie goes off and takes a nap. Robin's bringing toys, chasing the cat, and mauling me. I can't wait for spring, or at least weather above zero degrees.

 

How do I tire this dog out????? Any indoor toys that keep dogs busy without involving food? I can't put something down like a Kong with a treat for the three of them to fight over. How do I teach him knock this behavior???? Sometimes I think I should have named him Alvin! (Anybody seen the "Squeakwel"?)

 

Liz

 

 

ETA - I should add the crates are in my study, and come heck or high water, they're moving out before mud season because they've got to tramp through half the house to get there. If not so devoted spouse won't build the kennel, I'll just move the crates into the mudroom.

 

Robin is used to being about two feet from me and I don't mind that.. once he's cleaned up and dried off in the mudroom, all of the dogs can go anywhere in the house and I'll have beds here in the study, which is why I'm giving them more freedom....that and there's no sense in having a dog crated if they're well behaved and someone's in the house to ensure that. We've been through extension cord chewing, sofa eating, marking....I know we can lick this annoying problem. I just can't figure out how.

[flyer]

Colt will nag my husband and son relentlessly to play or to throw something for him. Not me. He will ask once, if I say 'that'll do', he doesn't even think about asking again, because I have never gone back on a nope not playing, patting, throwing, or going for a walk right now. He doesn't seem at all offended, though I have seen disappointment at times, but as it seems you do he gets plenty of exercise, affection and attention from me so when I am busy I am busy. Love ya, but see ya.

 

Have you tried acknowledging with a pat or two and then telling him that'll do and going back to what ever you were doing, never looking at him again regardless of what he comes up with? Bea was hysterical when she first came into our home. She has a huge vocabulary of yowls and yips and roos. I simply ignored them and told everyone else to on pain of death to also ignore them and they went away, though she still uses them to "talk to me" quite a bit. In this regard they are entirely appropriate and charming.

[ejano]

Colt will nag my husband and son relentlessly to play or to throw something for him. Not me. He will ask once, if I say 'that'll do', he doesn't even think about asking again, because I have never gone back on a nope not playing, patting, throwing, or going for a walk right now. He doesn't seem at all offended, though I have seen disappointment at times, but as it seems you do he gets plenty of exercise, affection and attention from me so when I am busy I am busy. Love ya, but see ya.

 

Have you tried acknowledging with a pat or two and then telling him that'll do and going back to what ever you were doing, never looking at him again regardless of what he comes up with? Bea was hysterical when she first came into our home. She has a huge vocabulary of yowls and yips and roos. I simply ignored them and told everyone else to on pain of death to also ignore them and they went away, though she still uses them to "talk to me" quite a bit. In this regard they are entirely appropriate and charming.

 

 

Yup. He's back about twenty seconds later. If I ignore him, he just ups the antee....If I'm in the office, I pet him if he comes and sits, then say "That will do.", which it doesn't of course. So, its "NO! "ENOUGH!: and turn my back.... I've taken some interesting rides in the office chair, trying to "ignore" him. He's only ten months old and this is a "Manners" problem....Ken just sits in his recliner and keeps throwing the ball for all the dogs as long as they bring it back, without taking his eyes of the TV so Robin thinks if he bugs me enough, I"ll do something interesting and then I've got to really sit down on him, which I don't want to keep doing because its fine with me if he's at my feet, just leave me the heck alone when I'm working to buy that expensive dog food, toys, lessons, etc..... Plus, I think he needs a lot more exercise and stimulation and he's just a natural pest because I've been telling him since he was two days old how beautiful and sweet he is. Clearly, its gone to his head.

[Maralynn]

Yup. He's back about twenty seconds later. If I ignore him, he just ups the antee....If I'm in the office, I pet him if he comes and sits, then say "That will do.", which it doesn't of course. So, its "NO! "ENOUGH!: and turn my back.... I've taken some interesting rides in the office chair, trying to "ignore" him. He's only ten months old and this is a "Manners" problem....Ken just sits in his recliner and keeps throwing the ball for all the dogs as long as they bring it back, without taking his eyes of the TV so Robin thinks if he bugs me enough, I"ll do something interesting and then I've got to really sit down on him, which I don't want to keep doing because its fine with me if he's at my feet, just leave me the heck alone when I'm working to buy that expensive dog food, toys, lessons, etc..... Plus, I think he needs a lot more exercise and stimulation and he's just a natural pest because I've been telling him since he was two days old how beautiful and sweet he is. Clearly, its gone to his head.

 

If he's already had a decent amount of training and exercise, I'd take him and crate him if he continued to be a pest. You could give him a bone or kong to work on in his crate if that would make you feel better about it!

[flyer]

Yup. He's back about twenty seconds later. If I ignore him, he just ups the antee....If I'm in the office, I pet him if he comes and sits, then say "That will do.", which it doesn't of course. So, its "NO! "ENOUGH!: and turn my back.... I've taken some interesting rides in the office chair, trying to "ignore" him. He's only ten months old and this is a "Manners" problem....Ken just sits in his recliner and keeps throwing the ball for all the dogs as long as they bring it back, without taking his eyes of the TV so Robin thinks if he bugs me enough, I"ll do something interesting and then I've got to really sit down on him, which I don't want to keep doing because its fine with me if he's at my feet, just leave me the heck alone when I'm working to buy that expensive dog food, toys, lessons, etc..... Plus, I think he needs a lot more exercise and stimulation and he's just a natural pest because I've been telling him since he was two days old how beautiful and sweet he is. Clearly, its gone to his head.

 

 

When I say ignore I mean not another word or movement from you initiated by anything he does. So me in the office, Colt or Bea come in and say hi and I pat and then I go back to work, Bea might try again to engage me as she is only four mos. old and much more persistent than Colt ever was in all regards. I do not even look at her. I do not say anything else, I continue to work. She can yip, yowl, jump up, play bow, whatever, I type on. One 'that'll do' and nothing else. I am a rock. I am an iiiiiiisland.

 

Now I quite often after they have left me alone by walking out of the office I will often wait a few minutes and then go and play or pet for ten minutes or so, then return to work. If they lay down at my feet, so much the better.

[Shetlander]

It isn't a matter of tiring him out, but of him learning that to everything there is a season. A time to run and play, a time to be petted and a time hang out together quietly. As you say, you've gotten through a variety of phases and unwanted behaviors, so you can get through this one too. When you have things to do other than seeing to Robin's every heart's desire, I'd give him a toy he can chew on (I like Nylabones) or play with quietly. If he pesters you, tell him lie down. You don't need to be mean. You just need to be firm and matter of fact. And consistent. Once he figures out he can't manipulate you into giving him some kind of attention, he'll figure it out. You'll be too boring to bother with. And pay attention to when you decide you want to interact in some way, whether it is petting, going for a walk, feeding, whatever. Wait until Robin is behaving in a way you want him to before reinforcing it.

 

I've never taught "place" but I know that is something people will do, where the dog has a special spot like a small rug that he needs to stay on. I've read about training this , usually through a clicker approach but can't think where off the top of my head. Something like that might be helpful. Also, keeping to a schedule can be helpful for a young dog to learn the routine of activity and rest that you want. At Robin's age, Quinn was on a more rigid schedule than he is as an adult. If you feel you are giving your dogs enough exercise, play, attention and mental stimulation then it sounds like "chilling out" is the skill Robin needs to spend extra time mastering.

[ejano]

When I say ignore I mean not another word or movement from you initiated by anything he does. So me in the office, Colt or Bea come in and say hi and I pat and then I go back to work, Bea might try again to engage me as she is only four mos. old and much more persistent than Colt ever was in all regards. I do not even look at her. I do not say anything else, I continue to work. She can yip, yowl, jump up, play bow, whatever, I type on. One 'that'll do' and nothing else. I am a rock. I am an iiiiiiisland.

 

Now I quite often after they have left me alone by walking out of the office I will often wait a few minutes and then go and play or pet for ten minutes or so, then return to work. If they lay down at my feet, so much the better.

I'd be an island with a dog on my lap. . I can thank my husband for that. When they were puppies and he was worn out from working and taking care of the house etc. when I had chemo and was sleeping all the time, he'd take the pups out of their crates, and have them on his lap with Ladybug so he'd know what they were doing....he thought That's when Robin ate the couch cushion:).

[ejano]

It isn't a matter of tiring him out, but of him learning that to everything there is a season. A time to run and play, a time to be petted and a time hang out together quietly. As you say, you've gotten through a variety of phases and unwanted behaviors, so you can get through this one too. When you have things to do other than seeing to Robin's every heart's desire, I'd give him a toy he can chew on (I like Nylabones) or play with quietly. If he pesters you, tell him lie down. You don't need to be mean. You just need to be firm and matter of fact. And consistent. Once he figures out he can't manipulate you into giving him some kind of attention, he'll figure it out. You'll be too boring to bother with. And pay attention to when you decide you want to interact in some way, whether it is petting, going for a walk, feeding, whatever. Wait until Robin is behaving in a way you want him to before reinforcing it.

 

I've never taught "place" but I know that is something people will do, where the dog has a special spot like a small rug that he needs to stay on. I've read about training this , usually through a clicker approach but can't think where off the top of my head. Something like that might be helpful. Also, keeping to a schedule can be helpful for a young dog to learn the routine of activity and rest that you want. At Robin's age, Quinn was on a more rigid schedule than he is as an adult. If you feel you are giving your dogs enough exercise, play, attention and mental stimulation then it sounds like "chilling out" is the skill Robin needs to spend extra time mastering.

 

Thanks for the reassurance. He's so energetic this week because of the surgery. Hopefully tomorrow he can get out and run. It's been a week. But he's also a pushy dog. The world is his....he's just got that kind of personality.

 

Your suggestion about manipulation is a good point. Tonight, I'd tell him to go lie down and he'd go pester Ken, who'd pet him absent mindedly. Then, he'd come back to me. Repeat cycle, with me telling Ken to not pet him. I swear, Ken and I have fought more about how to raise these puppies than we ever did our child.

 

We had a good time tonight playing squeakers....they all lined up and took turns catching different squeaky toys. I was quite proud that they so quickly learned "Line up" and to wait for their turn - we've been working on it for two or three days. It's amazing how their brains have really turned on these past few months.

 

I do love my puppies, and my Ladybug, and my husband - and the cat.

 

Liz

[IPSY]

Hi Liz,

I think you just need to perserveer and you will get what you want , eventually. They do and will get the hint once they find out you mean it. I know how frustrating it can be. Yogi did the same thing. I just ignored him and his attack of toys till HE got tired of MY game. I have been buried with toys and was practically tied up with his tug toy made out of bed sheets , LOL..But still , I held out and won the game !!! It was a great feeling to have beaten a dog at his own game ! Poor Yogi walked away so unhappy , I took him out for a game of ball, LOL

 

Just hang in there Liz , I know you can do it !!

[pansmom]

Dramatically walking out of the room for a while every time Pan did this a few times, followed by dramatically turning away and avoiding eye contact when she was too insistent and then if she still didn't get it after that and kept bumping me, or getting into my space (like jumping up on my lap), sending her to time out (you have to teach a time out cue for this) cured Pan of this problem. The above approach was something I learned from a positive methods type trainer in California who I consulted before I had to consult the vet behaviorist. And then, the vet behaviorist explained the PACE protocol to me which was also helpful in teaching her that part of her job during the day was to relax. Have you heard of it? It stands for Polite Attentive Calm Exercise. I just partially described it in another post (the one about chins). I know you're not one for vet behaviorists but this is something that works very quickly for this problem--in fact, it works so fast and reliably I still use a variation of it in my animal rescue volunteer work to teach big dogs like GSDs how to calm down and behave in about ten minutes so I can take pictures of them for petfinder. You can also show Robin a place to lie down and encourage her to do it more by making treats "fall from the sky" when she does it. Before long she'll be lying around staring up at the sky 24/7, if she likes treats and she's smart (sounds like she is!)... Forgive me if this is stuff you've already tried that hasn't worked... I know you've had dogs much longer than I have. But this is what works for me with this problem.

[ejano]

Dramatically walking out of the room for a while every time Pan did this a few times, followed by dramatically turning away and avoiding eye contact when she was too insistent and then if she still didn't get it after that and kept bumping me, or getting into my space (like jumping up on my lap), sending her to time out (you have to teach a time out cue for this) cured Pan of this problem. The above approach was something I learned from a positive methods type trainer in California who I consulted before I had to consult the vet behaviorist. And then, the vet behaviorist explained the PACE protocol to me which was also helpful in teaching her that part of her job during the day was to relax. Have you heard of it? It stands for Polite Attentive Calm Exercise. I just partially described it in another post (the one about chins). I know you're not one for vet behaviorists but this is something that works very quickly for this problem--in fact, it works so fast and reliably I still use a variation of it in my animal rescue volunteer work to teach big dogs like GSDs how to calm down and behave in about ten minutes so I can take pictures of them for petfinder. You can also show Robin a place to lie down and encourage her to do it more by making treats "fall from the sky" when she does it. Before long she'll be lying around staring up at the sky 24/7, if she likes treats and she's smart (sounds like she is!)... Forgive me if this is stuff you've already tried that hasn't worked... I know you've had dogs much longer than I have. But this is what works for me with this problem.

 

I's like to hear more about the PACE exercise - and I am entirely for behaviorists - one placed my dear Scotty with us, and has been a good friend ever since. In fact, she owns the pup's dad.

 

Thanks for the tips....He was better today. A nice loping run in the field helped to calm him down, and this whole freedom in the house thing is fairly new to him. Today went fo% better. You know, sometimes I feel like my niece who calls wondering what to do with her new baby when he does or doesn't do something she finds unexpected! (As if I would know, I only had one kid and he was perfect . )

 

Thanks all.

[ahoops]

how about clicking and treating him when he doesnt pester you?

[pansmom]

I's like to hear more about the PACE exercise - and I am entirely for behaviorists - one placed my dear Scotty with us, and has been a good friend ever since. In fact, she owns the pup's dad.

 

Thanks for the tips....He was better today. A nice loping run in the field helped to calm him down, and this whole freedom in the house thing is fairly new to him. Today went fo% better. You know, sometimes I feel like my niece who calls wondering what to do with her new baby when he does or doesn't do something she finds unexpected! (As if I would know, I only had one kid and he was perfect . )

 

Thanks all.

 

Sorry, I'm confusing you with another user!!!!

 

The link to the PACE protocol is above. It's a lengthy read but it's worth it.

 

Glad to hear things are going better!

[Guest echoica]

My latest pup was like this from the time I got her too (I got her at 12 weeks) - no matter how much mental and physical exercise she had in any given day (which is a lot by the way). Running around always looking for something to do, bothering the cats and WHINING (ugh it drove me crazy how much she whined). I decided to crate her for scheduled relaxation times DURING THE DAY - usually 2-3 times per day minimum for at least an hour at a time. After about a month and half of this regular crating schedule - she is 5 months old now - she has completely calmed down inside. She has learned that inside means relaxation and calm. She doesn't pester the cats anymore, she doesn't have to play constantly with herself or the other dog, she doesn't get in my face or run around, the whining is pretty much non-existent...she is content just curling up on the couch in a ball beside me or chewing on a toy quietly and has EARNED the freedom to be loose in the house. I really think she just didn't know how or when to relax...

[ejano]

My latest pup was like this from the time I got her too (I got her at 12 weeks) - no matter how much mental and physical exercise she had in any given day (which is a lot by the way). Running around always looking for something to do, bothering the cats and WHINING (ugh it drove me crazy how much she whined). I decided to crate her for scheduled relaxation times DURING THE DAY - usually 2-3 times per day minimum for at least an hour at a time. After about a month and half of this regular crating schedule - she is 5 months old now - she has completely calmed down inside. She has learned that inside means relaxation and calm. She doesn't pester the cats anymore, she doesn't have to play constantly with herself or the other dog, she doesn't get in my face or run around, the whining is pretty much non-existent...she is content just curling up on the couch in a ball beside me or chewing on a toy quietly and has EARNED the freedom to be loose in the house. I really think she just didn't know how or when to relax...

 

A good point. Maybe too much freedom all at once...also, being out of the crate, meant fun time....we're working on it. It's progressing.

 

Liz