At the top for pups

[kelpiegirl]

Just want to pick your brains. Those of you in the know, when you are training pups (not baby pups, but those with a bit of work under them). Do you automatically down your dog at the top at the end of an outrun, or do you allow the pup to come in, and only down if he doesn't check himself at the bubble?

[juliepoudrier]

I would prefer the second choice. It really depends on the individual dog, of course, but my feeling is that the dog needs to learn to approach and lift properly and I don't want to have to rely on a down at the top, so I give the youngster the chance to figure it out/do it right before stopping it. In fact, if the dog is quite sensible, I might not down him at all.

 

J.

[Smokjbc]

I haven't been downing Jet (2 years) until she's picked up her sheep or if she flies past balance. It's hard to resist the temptation though, especially since she's pushy and at first her lifts were not super straight, more like flanky zig zags. But I continued to check with people "in the know" and they said don't stop her and it seems like the last few months she's become right about her approach, if still a bit fast . I do try to down her on the fetch at least once, just so I know I can LOL.

[Amelia]

Hello all, I rarely, if ever down my dogs at the top. To do so causes them to have to lift twice, possibly takes their power away when it's needed most, and you are really missing the point of the lift when you do. The point is to make proper contact with the sheep and start them calmly and quietly to the hand. To teach a proper lift, I first teach my dogs feel and pace at hand, and not be rash with their sheep. Once they learn that, they can handle the lift efficiently, at distance, independently, and be effective out of sight when necessary. They can also gauge exactly how much power is needed without assistance from me. They have a better look at them than I do anyway. I teach them how to property handle sheep first, and the lift takes care of itself.

 

After the lift is when I might steady my dog. Once the lift is accomplished, if I steady the dog, the sheep have a chance to start calmly without feeling harassed, and I'm likely to have more managable sheep, a smoother fetch, and better en-bye work as well. To me, the dog's approach at the top and the lift set up the dog's relationship with the stock and the entire run. Good question this. From what I see at trials, not many fully understand this critical point in their runs.

 

Cheers all,

[kelpiegirl]

Thanks everyone. I am pretty much doing what you all describe- just letting him work, and only checking him if he comes in like a freight train... It can be hard to see with the darn sheep in the way.

[stockdogranch]

It can be hard to see with the darn sheep in the way

The sheep tell you what the dog's doing--if they are coming hard and fast, the dog is probably pushing too much,

A

[juliepoudrier]

You're right Anna. I have someone who comes here for lessons with one of my open dogs and that was one of the things she had to learn: the sheep will tell you where the dog is and what it's doing.

 

J.

[kelpiegirl]

That's true, unless you have well broke sheep who run.at.the.drop.of.a.hat

[Smokjbc]

That's true, unless you have well broke sheep who run.at.the.drop.of.a.hat

 

Can you set them with grain/hay or have someone hold them for you?

[kelpiegirl]

Hi Jamie

We are doing that now. He's a good boy- has nice distance off, but in the beginning stages of lift work, I just do not want to take his natural ability away, but I don't want bad habits to start either...

 

Can you set them with grain/hay or have someone hold them for you?