what not to do as first time shepherds

[The Good Shepherd]

Okay, one of my first ewes (the group that I have the longest) had a surprise for me when we went out to the barn, a beautiful black baby!! I am keeping my fingers crossed!

 

If anyone on this Board knows Mary Weir, or if Mary is on the board, that one of the ewe's Mary gave me when she moved to Kentucky a couple of years ago! - Congrats Grandma -

[Smalahundur]

Good luck with your unexpected winterlambing.

I am a bit surprised to read about people who plan winterlambing so early (didn´t Debbie mention this is normal lambing time for her) in notherly regions. This is by no means meant as criticism, merely expressing my own ignorance. I started my "career" as a hobby sheepfarmer here in Iceland and know relatively little about foreign methods, but we have our lambing not before beginning of may, and that´s barnlambing. We do around the clock checks, and seperate lambing ewes immediately from the group.

[Sue R]

I would hazard a guess that, in the US, the major lamb market is the spring/Easter/Passover market. For that, you are looking at winter lambs (or even fall lambs) with all the inherent issues that winter or fall lambing involve.

 

We used to sell quite a few of our goat kids to families that celebrated Greek Easter (always was a week to five weeks after "regular" Easter) and did their own butchering. Tradition! We'd also sell some older goats to a local Muslim/Hindu family as goat was one meat they could all agree on (not eating pork or beef being a religious preference for one or the other spouse). They'd like theirs for an end-of-Ramadan feast. Relatives not far from Norfolk VA area used to sell goats/lambs to the ethnic market, mainly based on sailors on cargo ships in those days.

[The Good Shepherd]

Monday Morning update:

 

No new lambs yet (oh btw, I finally checked all 4 babies are lambs - go figure)

 

BUT

 

1 Angora kid

 

And its suppposed to be like 54 during the day!!!!!!!!!

[juliepoudrier]

Monday Morning update:

 

No new lambs yet (oh btw, I finally checked all 4 babies are lambs - go figure)

 

BUT

 

1 Angora kid

 

And its suppposed to be like 54 during the day!!!!!!!!!

I'm a little confused. Did you mean to say all four lambs are rams?

 

J.

[The Good Shepherd]

I'm a little confused. Did you mean to say all four lambs are rams?

 

J.

 

 

All 4 sheep babies are little boys.

I thought the term "Lamb" was used for boy babies? So would you call boy babies rams and girl babies ewes?

Someone please tell me

 

Did not mean to confuse anybody - sorry

[juliepoudrier]

Lamb is a general term for baby sheep. Ram lambs and ewe lambs is correct for differentiating gender.

 

J.

[The Good Shepherd]

Lamb is a general term for baby sheep. Ram lambs and ewe lambs is correct for differentiating gender.

 

J.

 

 

Thank you for explaining! Thats what I thought! Don't know where i got the idea about the "lamb" thing - I guess to much stress and to little sleep!

 

But, thanks to the board and all the reallynice people here, this week is going 100x better then last week!!

[The Good Shepherd]

Sorry if I bore people, but this is my first lambing ever

 

We had another set of twins yesterday - out of my churro, 1 black with white feet and a white "beenie" and one brown and white with a badgerface (Spyder now has 2 lambs the sort of look like him LOLOL")

 

I have total cuteness overload!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[juliepoudrier]

You need to post pictures. We love lamb pictures!

 

J.

[The Good Shepherd]

Took pictures with my cell last night, but the barn was to dark for them to come out okay, so I will have to try again this weekend!

Bummer!!!!!!!!!!

[The Good Shepherd]

A very very big Thank you to Cynthia for allowing me to call her if I have a question or a problem

 

Cynthia, you are truly a very caring and giving person to take me under your wing and answer my questions

 

 

That said here is the newest:

 

The ewe who had the last set of twins was a very good mom right from the get-go until last night

When we got to the barn to feed everyone grain she starts to butt one of the babies and not let him suckle, she was quite serious about it, the other lamb was okay and was drinking. Needless to say, we got very upset, so we took the little tyke out and put him in the house. I was very nervous, so I called Cynthia (Bless you) who told me that sometimes the mom's reject a baby for whatever reason and to put the baby back, hold the ewe and let him drink. So we have been doing this, and it seems to work. This morning Mom was a little less upset, and stood pretty much still. We also have made a little divider that the baby can get behind if need be!! Thanks Cynthia! We are keeping a close eye on them and also have our fingers crossed, because the baby is soooooooo cute!!!

Oh, he also has a temper, when I out him on the bathroom floor last night he was actully stomping with his front feet

[Debbie Meier]

Hey First Time Shepherd!!

 

You have a plan for your lambs, are you selling them as milk fed, raising them as feeder lambs, keeping them? Easter is right around the corner and their age and size might be perfect. Don't forget the vaccinations, tail docking (if you need to do it) and castrations.

 

Only mentioning cause I got wrapped up in the cuteness and ended up with a bunch of really uncomfortable ram adolesents on their way to wethers. Would have been way easier on them if they had been banded as tykes. Besides that we ended up in the "Whose Your Daddy?" mode come next lambing.

 

 

Deb

[The Good Shepherd]

Hey First Time Shepherd!!

 

You have a plan for your lambs, are you selling them as milk fed, raising them as feeder lambs, keeping them? Easter is right around the corner and their age and size might be perfect. Don't forget the vaccinations, tail docking (if you need to do it) and castrations.

 

Only mentioning cause I got wrapped up in the cuteness and ended up with a bunch of really uncomfortable ram adolesents on their way to wethers. Would have been way easier on them if they had been banded as tykes. Besides that we ended up in the "Whose Your Daddy?" mode come next lambing.

Deb

 

Hi Debbie,

Yes I know all about cuteness overload!!

 

We are having a sitdown with our shearer and my trainer this weekend about what to do with the lambs. So far I have about 3 of my ewes that are going down the road because they don'y want to be worked by dogs, acouple other are getting up there in age, and a couple are sold!

 

My shearer will dock/castrate for me.

Now I do have a question so, whats the reason behind docking the tail?

[Debbie Meier]

Here's a good link for you:

 

http://www.sheep101.info/201/dockcastrate.html

 

Even though the article says we do not have to dock hair sheep we still do, but not real short. Just short enough to keep them clean in the case they don't shed.

 

Deb

[Laura L]

It keeps the whole area cleaner. If you start having poop stick to the tail, you can end up with a nasty case of fly strike.

 

How's your lambing going now? I second the motion to have you take pictures this weekend. It's always fun to see them.

 

Laura

[The Good Shepherd]

Here's a good link for you:

 

http://www.sheep101.info/201/dockcastrate.html

 

Even though the article says we do not have to dock hair sheep we still do, but not real short. Just short enough to keep them clean in the case they don't shed.

 

Deb

 

 

Thanks for the excellent article link!!!!!! I am in favor of banding ramlambs! I just have a question on docking the tails! I can see that they keep cleaner, nut since I really don't use the wool is the other reason to dock the tail because its better for training dogs on docked lambs?

Sorry for the dumb question!

[Debbie Meier]

As for training stock, there should be no pro or con to docking that I can see, unless you are allowing your dog to work incorrectly. At one point we had to dock everything regardless due to someone allowing their dogs to hang from our lambs/ewes tails. At one point we even had to redock one ewe, the dog tore her tail open all the way to the bone perpendicular to the ground. The best solution to that is to send the offender packing, it's not right or proper even in the name of training.

 

So no, imo there is no training bonus in docking them, it's just that if they get fly strike you will wish you had them docked. It is gross, nasty stinky stuff, I've not dealt with it since I was a kid in 4-H but that was enough for me.

 

Deb

[juliepoudrier]

Tail docking is generally more important with wool sheep than with hair sheep. Lots of folks I know with hair sheep don't bother to dock. My neighbor was anti-docking despite my warnings about the problems that could ensue. Then she ended up with lambs with a bad case of coccidia, long wooly lamb tails full of diarrhea (and ripe for fly strike), and it was a lesson learned. I prefer to band long (at the end of the caudal fold) so that the ewe's parts are all covered by her tail (for protection from flies, etc.). There are also some potential physiological issues that can result from docking too short (e.g., rectal prolapse).

 

As Debbie said, tail length and dog work are not connected. While a youngster in training might grab a tail, it should not be something encountered often enough to require tail docking for the safety of the sheep. IME shearers would rather not shear long tails, and at some time in the past ranchers would actually be docked (no pun in tended) at market for long-tailed lambs (it was considered a sign of poor husbandry).

 

As for castrating, if you're going to band it really should be done before the lambs are 72 hours old. The older the lamb, the more painful the procedure. I believe that in the UK it's not even legal to band a lamb older than three days. If your lambs get too old to safely band, you can use a burdizzo to crush the spermatic cord and achieve castration. It's possible this is what your shearer will do.

 

Last, when banding vs. some of the other procedures, you need to make sure that either your ewes were all vaccinated for tetanus (and hence the lambs will have gained immunity from the ewe's colostrum) or you will need to get tetanus antitoxin (not the toxoid vaccine but the actual antitoxin--contains antitetanus antibodies) and inject each lamb or risk tetanus (since the banding procedure produces an anaerobic environment that is ripe for tetanus infection).

 

Your shearer should know all this, but it's good for you to know it too.

 

J.

[The Good Shepherd]

Thank you , Thank you

 

Docking (and the other ) here we come!!!

[The Good Shepherd]

Okay, I am getting very very impatient LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

 

Still no other babies!!!!!!!!!

 

Should they not all lamb at about the same time? Or is it normally weeks apart?

[juliepoudrier]

It depends on when they cycled, so it is possible to have a break of a few days or a week or so in between lambs. People who want a "tighter" lambing schedule will often use a "teaser ram" to bring all the ewes into season before putting the ram in so that he will breed them all in the space of a few days, which of course means they will all lamb close together. Ewes generally cycle every 17 days, so you could have a 17-day break between arrival of lambs, but it's usually not that long. Also the standard gestation is an average, and some breeds tend to lamb a little earlier and others a little later, so if you have a mix of breeds that could cause some gaps in when lambs come as well.

 

J.

[Kelliwic Border Collies]

As for castrating, if you're going to band it really should be done before the lambs are 72 hours old. The older the lamb, the more painful the procedure.

 

Going a bit off from the original post, a kind of stupid question: How do you know which one or ones you'd (general you) like to keep as rams if you typically band them before three days old?

[kajarrel]

An opposing viewpoint:

 

I don't dock my lambs' tails and have never, in 15 years of raising sheep, had fly strike in the tail area. I have, however, had sheep with fly strike. It typically occurs in the damp wool of the neck when I can't get the shearer in until late spring. I also had a ram who used to get fly strike around his horns - I had to keep his horns sprayed with screw worm spray throughout the early summer.

 

Really, the only problem I have had is with my shearers who complain about the tails -- I just tell them to not shear the tails . . .

 

Kim

[NorthfieldNick]

In RE to Megan Q: I generally never keep a cross-bred ram lamb intact. For one, my lambs are all sired by one of two rams, and a lot of my ewes are related to each other. Keeping one of their offspring as a breeding ram for my own flock would mean a lot of inbreeding, something that can work, but that I don't like to do. A lot of people also like using a purebred ram on cross-bred ewes, myself included.

 

When I was breeding purebred sheep, I'd sometimes keep a ram lamb or two intact in case someone was looking for a ram (I raised Cotswolds, a rare breed). I had a few ewes who were better maternal sires than ram sires. I tended to keep ram lambs out of my nicest ewes, as well.

 

Mostly, I castrate everything because it makes management easier. No worries about accidental breeding, or having to find a securely fenced place to lock up the ram lambs.

 

ETA: I have in the past kept a couple lambs intact (and un-docked) for some folks who buy them at weaning and raise & slaughter the lambs themselves (the husband is Iranian). That's never been a problem, though, as they've always come and picked the lambs up shortly after weaning, when they're too young to breed anything.