Long Haired/Smooth Coated Border Collies

[BorderCollieSam]

I would be interested in knowing how many of you with Smooth Coated Border Collies are continuely asked 'what type of dog is he', is he a 'cross collie', is he a 'lercher/collie cross'....i think even my wife was a little suspicious of his bloodline when i bought Sam home, even though both his mum and dad were working dogs on a Sheep/Cow Farm in North Wales, however now that my wife is aware of the smooth coated bc's she realises that Sam is a BC.

 

Sam is the first smooth coated dog i have owned, my other dogs have all been long/medium haired BC's.

 

And i must admit, until i got Sam, i wasn't actually concious of the different hair types BC's come in.

 

For example, we were travelling through the Lake District a couple of years ago and the traffic came to a standstill. We were sitting there for about 15 minutes, a few people got out of their cars, me included, and soon realised what the hold up was. A few shepherds and their dogs were moving some sheep from one field to another, i took some photos as love BC's, but it wasn't until i got Sam that i looked back at those photos, and I realised that they were also smooth coated Border Collies.

 

The majority of photos or calendars on BC's show the Long Haired variety and very rarely do you see the Smooth Coated type, which i think is a great shame, as when somebody thinks of a BC they automatically relate to the long haired type, its almost as though smooth coated BC's are not recognised. When the average layman sees a long haired BC they immediately think of intelligence, obedience, working dog, etc., etc., however i don't believe the same is thought of with the short haired type (to the layman that is) until they see the dog in action and actually working and then realise that this dog isn't just some cross-bred dog he is actually a very highly intelligent dog, then they stop you and speak to you and ask you what type of dog he is. A lady the other day who had a long haired BC, she has allways had bc's, she asked me what type of dog Sam is and was shocked when i said funny enough he is actually the exact same dog as yours only a smooth coated instead of long haired!

 

Out of interest, does anybody actually know which type was bred first? If as i assume the long haired was bred first, is there any information as to when the smooth coated were first bred?

 

I thought i would share some of these photos with you that i took of the dogs working in the Lake District the other year:-

 

 

 

[PSmitty]

Neat photos!

 

I have been asked quite a few times what breed (or mix) my smooth coat is. Lots of people just aren't aware of the smooth coat. I even had a woman who said she owned a border collie say. "Oh, I didn't know they made them with short hair!" Yup, she said that.

 

Once I had someone ask me if Jack (who IS a BC mix) was a "shaved border collie". Hey, I was just impressed someone noticed his border collie heritage!

[mum24dog]

I would be interested in knowing how many of you with Smooth Coated Border Collies are continuely asked 'what type of dog is he', is he a 'cross collie', is he a 'lercher/collie cross'....

 

Depends where you live I suppose.

I think one person said that Kye looked like he had some BC in him when I first got him but most people round here know working type dogs and I mix with people who have lots of BCs so I don't get asked.

 

Out of interest, does anybody actually know which type was bred first? If as i assume the long haired was bred first, is there any information as to when the smooth coated were first bred?

 

I'm not sure anyone can answer that since they have never been bred for appearance.

 

Pam

[Guest echoica]

I have been asked quite a few times what breed (or mix) my smooth coat is. Lots of people just aren't aware of the smooth coat. I even had a woman who said she owned a border collie say. "Oh, I didn't know they made them with short hair!" Yup, she said that.

 

Walking through the park the other day, a woman with her rough-coated black & white BC asked me what Rikku was. I said BC and she said she never heard of a red & white!!! Hardly anyone can see the BC in Casey especially because he is brindle - putting aside the smooth coat.

 

Most people think they only come in black & white with rough coat. Which is sad because there are so many different looks for these beautiful dogs!!

[BustopherJones]

As we all know, Border Collies come in all sizes, colors, and coat types. Annie is the typical smallish (35 pounds) black-and-white rough-coat BC, and people still ask me what kind of dog she is! If they are nice and have an honest interest, I tell them she is a Border Collie, but also explain that they come in smooth-coat and rough-coat variants and also a variety of colors (some amount white being the only mandatory requirement). If, however, the question is asked in a not-so-polite manner (e.g., "What kind of mutt is THAT?"), I respond that she is a cross between a skunk and a wolverine, with a REALLY bad attitude and the bite force of a Great White; I then invite them to pet her if they dare, first advising them that they need to sign a waiver for any damage she might do...

[nancy]

Fergie is a mix. We know that Mom was a border collie. Reports are that Dad was a lab. But only Mom knew, and she wasn't talking.

 

So we assumed that her short hair was the lab's donation.

 

Then we went to the West End bike criterium in Winston-Salem, when Ferg was about 1-1/4. We were both USCF racers (as was our son) and then officials, and I wrote for the national USCF magazine, so we were there to see all our old friends. And one of them is a Scotsman. He took one look at Ferg and said, "Lovely smooth-coated collie!"

 

We'd never heard of such a thing. But he pointed out the almost ruff at her neck and her feathering. Which are not lab.

 

Never know where you're going to learn what. So it pays to listen.

[Lenajo]

Depends where you live I suppose.

I think one person said that Kye looked like he had some BC in him when I first got him but most people round here know working type dogs and I mix with people who have lots of BCs so I don't get asked.

I'm not sure anyone can answer that since they have never been bred for appearance.

 

Pam

 

I'm not sure there is an answer. It may be a chicken/egg arguement. The original prototype dogs appear to have heavier coats because of the colder past climates (like a wolf). Did a mutation occur somewhere? If it did - how come the short hair is actually the dominent gene?

[Lizmo]

Those are really neat pictures.

 

I've never been asked if Blaze is a mix or *insert breed name* breed. They always ask what kind of dog he is - never any guesses.

 

Though, one little boy asked me if Lizzie was a Rottie.

[Rave]

I'm always asked what breed my smoothie Wick is. In the sports world, people think she's a Border Jack.

[border_collie_crazy]

not often actually! when I take Misty to Obedience fun matches that are usually in conction with conformation fun matches I get plenty of show folks looking at Misty and asking the deal is with her coat..they are usually happy to learn that they come in smooth coats. otherwise in 7 years I have only have 3 people ask, and they were happy to learn, and 1 person ask who didn't believe me. working BCs are EXTREMLY common here, so most people off the street know she's a BC right off the bat...heck most people cant even tell my tell mostly black drop eared rough coat apart from my tiny, prick eared, half white smooth coat(you would not believe the amount of "look...TWINS" I get when they are together! or the amount of people who see me with Misty and start looking at her and going "boy she's come a long way!!" ......from what?? you've never met Misty before!)

[SS Cressa]

I don't have any short coat bc, or any story- but do they stay as warm as a long coat bc? I do know their coat is less care!

Is it still a 2 layer coat like most dogs? Undercoat/overhair

I should say- I cant imagine their coats provide the same amount of warmth, otherwise, I think they may start breeding short haired Siberian huskies!

But if they bred on working ability- the dog that brought in short coat gene may have been a mix... but who knows!

[WyoBC]

Those pictures are awesome! Looks like beautiful country.

 

I have had people ask me what Black Jack is before. Most people are people that have probably never seen a border collie before so I take a minute to tell them about the breed. But once in a while I get one of those people that calls him a mutt or something and I walk away.

[border_collie_crazy]

Is it still a 2 layer coat like most dogs? Undercoat/overhair

I should say- I cant imagine their coats provide the same amount of warmth, otherwise, I think they may start breeding short haired Siberian huskies!

 

yes. Mistys coat may be short in length, but its double and relitivly thick in winter. we have VERY cold winters, average temps of -45*C and colder, Misty has no issues whatsoever with it exept maybe her feet.

 

and..did you see the pics of the Sibs on showdog that someone posted recently? the kennel breeds racing sibes..they are tall, lean and have SHORT double coats.

[Rave]

There are different types of smooth coats. Some have an undercoat and some have little to no undercoat, producing more a sleek look. I have one of the latter, and yes she's affected by cold and by heat too. But she dries lickety-split and doesn't stay very dirty. I never want another rough-coated dog again. :-)

[mum24dog]

There are different types of smooth coats. Some have an undercoat and some have little to no undercoat, producing more a sleek look. I have one of the latter, and yes she's affected by cold and by heat too. But she dries lickety-split and doesn't stay very dirty. I never want another rough-coated dog again. :-)

 

Ours doesn't have much of an undercoat but his coat isn't particularly sleek either. He looks short coated but there are plenty of dogs with shorter. He doesn't feel the cold or heat but then we don't get the extremes of temperature you do in the US.

As for drying, the water just stays on top of his coat and rolls off. Always clean too - at least when the mud dries.

 

Pam

[mum24dog]

But if they bred on working ability- the dog that brought in short coat gene may have been a mix... but who knows!

 

All dogs are mixes if you go back far enough.

There are BCs with working Beardie in their pedigree.

Nothing special about the BC in the way it developed. They started out as a rag bag of working dogs of all shapes and sizes (no change there then) and were gradually selected for specific working traits for the job in hand. There won't just have been one single dog that introduced short coats.

Left to breed indiscriminately dogs will eventually develop short coats. It's perfectly reasonable to assume that some of the dogs selected to breed from for their working ability will have had short coats.

The basic dog is medium sized, short coated and probably sandy coloured with pricked ears. There are variations as to size and colour according to latitude but this is what dogs look like if we don't interfere. The further north you go, the more likely you are to get darker coloured dogs, which makes sense as they would absorb rather than reflect heat.

Dark coloured, medium sized, short coated, prick eared - remind anyone of anything?

 

Pam

[mum24dog]

did you see the pics of the Sibs on showdog that someone posted recently? the kennel breeds racing sibes..they are tall, lean and have SHORT double coats.

 

Makes sense - overheating is more of a problem than getting cold with sled dogs I believe.

Plus long coats would be a waste of energy to haul around and would get even more weighted down by ice and snow. Not very efficient.

 

Pam

[mum24dog]

The original prototype dogs appear to have heavier coats because of the colder past climates (like a wolf). Did a mutation occur somewhere?

 

If you compare the primitive feral dogs around the world you will see that they have similar physical characteristics - a short coat being one of them.

However, in colder climates some may develop a denser coat in winter just as outside domestic dogs do.

I'm not sure whether genetic mutation comes into it or whether dogs have always has a mechanism to thicken the coat that is triggered by low temperature.

 

Pam

[BorderCollieSam]

I'm not sure there is an answer. It may be a chicken/egg arguement. The original prototype dogs appear to have heavier coats because of the colder past climates (like a wolf). Did a mutation occur somewhere? If it did - how come the short hair is actually the dominent gene?

 

This is very interesting and something i would like to look into a bit deeper....

 

Do you think the Rough Coated BC could with-stand colder weather than the Smooth Coated?

[BorderCollieSam]

P.S. I have other photographs but didn't want to cram the thread up with photos!

[juliepoudrier]

Most people think they only come in black & white with rough coat. Which is sad because there are so many different looks for these beautiful dogs!!

We can thank the kennel clubs and dog shows for that.

 

J.

[juliepoudrier]

(some amount white being the only mandatory requirement).

I don't think some amount of white is mandatory. You rarely see a dog without at least a tiny amount of white, but that doesn't mean there aren't dogs out there with no white, and no one would say they weren't a border collie because of that lack of white.

 

J.

[mum24dog]

Do you think the Rough Coated BC could with-stand colder weather than the Smooth Coated?

 

No - see the previous replies in this thread.

As you've noticed, those Lakeland collies are short coated and you get even more with short coats in Scotland.

We've got dogs in our agility club from farms in the high Pennines - all short coated.

Those are the colder parts of the UK, but places where folk are practically minded.

 

Pam

[juliepoudrier]

My smooth-coated border collies who have thicker coats and more undercoat don't seem to be affected any more than the rough coats by the cold, but then my rough coats are mostly more like medium coats (and in fact, Kat, for example, who would be considered a medium or rough coat is actually slicker on her abdomen than Willow, who is a smooth coat). The one slick-coated (not much in the way of an undercoat) dog does seem to feel the cold more, but then she's also tiny and doesn't have much in the way of fat for warmth either. I have a medium/rough who now wears blankets (like horse blankets) in the winter--because of his age he doesn't regulate his own temperature well anymore. I think cold resistance it probably more of an individual thing than specifically a type of coat thing.

 

J.

[Guest echoica]

We can thank the kennel clubs and dog shows for that.

 

Border Collies are not recognized by the Canadian Kennel Club...So we have been kind of lucky.