passive dog?

[Skylar06]

Zeke is a very passive dog, and big baby about everything, is there anything I can help to give hime more confidence? Thanks Krista

[Barb Scott]

How about agility? Where in MI are you located?

Barb S

[Shetlander]

Originally posted by Barb Scott:

How about agility?

I second that. Agility can be a big confidence booster for dogs. Also, find the activities that get Zeeke the most excited and happy and try to do those a lot. When you say he's "passive" and a "big baby," what do you mean exactly? What kind of things is he doing?

[Betsy]

I was about to post the same question(s)! I have a 4 year old male, neutered BC. He has always been submissive, but now seems to be getting worse as the years go by.

 

He is fine with meeting new dogs (one-on-one, a new play group is a different story) and will go up to a new dog, albeit submissively. But we just got a new kitten (6 weeks old). Riley was with me when I picked him up. I had the kitten in a small cat kennel and left it on the seat by the passenger door of the F150 I was driving. Riley could not get far enough away from it! I could hardly drive he was trying to get into my lap. I had to reach over and lift the cat kennel over him and place it next to me, then he got on the floor. Got home, he wouldn't even look at the kitten - wouldn't make eye contact! Took him two days, the kitten never once hissed or ANYTHING, and now he's okay with the kitten.

 

In the past he would always greet all animals, but seems to be getting more fearful. Also is getting more stressed about thunderstorms, nail guns, etc.

 

I've done agility with him in the past and he does enjoy it, but I think he is developing early arthritis in the shoulder he had OCD surgery on when he was young, so I need to limit the jumping, etc.

 

I should probably also mention that we have had a lot of changes in our household in the last 18 months - new (first) baby, moved into my parents house (on an acerage) while we built a house, moved into our new house (less than .25 acre, he's bummed b/c he loved the country!), new kitten...there's probably more that I'm not thinking of. Do you think changes like this have anything to do with it?

 

What else can I do besides agility to boost his confidence?

[Lunar]

Betsy - I think, for that kind of dog, those changes in your life could have a big impact. Zoe is an extremely fearful, shy, submissive dog as well. She thrives on the familiar. She's great inside the house; she's also now great in the yard. But remove her from the yard, or add a strange person into it, and it's a whole different ballgame. So I think with all your life changes, it may have affected your dog's confidence. Does he have a crate? Give him something consistent and familiar and very safe-feeling.

 

I'm finding that's the key to her shyness, as well. Make things familiar - and the only way to do that is to do it many times. Every time we go to obedience class (same dogs, same people, same place) she relaxes a little more. Step outside the building to do an exercise (like we did this past week), and she goes back to shivering and hiding. I bring a familiar toy with us, but she doesn't seem to notice it. The OB instructor suggested it, apparently it helps a lot of shy dogs - bring a mat or bed or something, again, a "safe place" for the dog.

 

Also for Zoe she needs a lot of verbal encouragement. I use very little negative reinforcement with her, and lots and lots of positive. Even when she's not doing anything specific (like a sit-stay or whatever), me just praising her for being a good girl and sitting quietly seems to give her a perk. Just be careful to only reward positive behavior. The instructor reminded me not to inadvertently reward her when she was hiding/scared.

 

One thing she told me last week was to teach her "touch". Means, touch your nose to my hand. Easy to teach - just hold something in your hand and when she touches your hand, she gets a treat. After a little while, put the treat in your other hand and continue encouraging her to touch the hand, reward. She said that a) this gives nervous dogs something positive and familiar to do and it can encourage them to come closer to scary things. Like, you hold your hand close to the strange scary person and say "touch", dog runs up and touches your hand. Positive motion.

 

Oh and she said to never force your dog into scary situations (don't force them to meet strangers if they don't want to). Let them approach if they want. Don't do as my husband did once and drag them up to the "nice coworker". (ugh)

[Shetlander]

Originally posted by Betsy:

What else can I do besides agility to boost his confidence?

I think one of the tricks with a shy dog is to find the things that they love to do, then do them. My seriously shy sheltie hated obedience, loved agility but I've heard of other dogs where the opposite is true. Just getting out and about is important with these dogs. It's a fine line you walk between not overwhelming them and not letting them turn into neurotic recluses. Rory often did best when people ignored him. I'd tell them to treat him like a cat and when he was comfortable he'd approach them for a pat or (more usually) a treat.

 

Two books I'd recommend are Help for Your Shy Dog by Deborah Wood and Click to Calm by Emma Parsons. Rory was able to come out of his shell, but I think I could have helped him do this more quickly with a clicker approach. The book is marketed to people with agressive dogs, but really the techniques work for any issue. It's extremely helpful.

 

You do need patience with these dogs. Also, I often took a "bracing" attitude with Rory. That is, I didn't fuss over his fears but I didn't ignore them either. Instead, I used a lot of encouragement and a lot of treats. Later, we played a lot with his special "prey" toys. In the early days, he'd let the treat fall out of his mouth and I'd replace it before he'd swallow. Eventually, he gained enough confidence to mug other people for treats and play in public.

 

It can take time, but it's very rewarding to see these dogs come around. As things settle down in your life, that will probably help as well.

[Skylar06]

Well when we go for a walk and we go by a fenced in yard with a dog and they bark, he freaks out starts zig-zagging every which way, even if he can't see them he just has to hear a strange dog bark. when him and other dogs play he likes to find the smallest place he can fit it and hide, Someone said to me that he was probably the runt of the litter and picked on alot by the litter mates. thanks Krista

[Shetlander]

Originally posted by Skylar06:

Well when we go for a walk and we go by a fenced in yard with a dog and they bark, he freaks out starts zig-zagging every which way, even if he can't see them he just has to hear a strange dog bark. when him and other dogs play he likes to find the smallest place he can fit it and hide.

Some dogs are just genetically shy. My sheltie was like that at 7 weeks. He hadn't been picked on by his litter mates or abused by anybody. He was just very fearful by nature. These dogs require patience and time as you help them get used to the world. I'd say if he's hiding from other dogs, he isn't playing. That may be too much for him to handle right now.

 

I really do recommend Help for Your Shy Dog and Click to Calm. There is also a group on Yahoo for people with shy dogs but I don't know its exact name.

 

It's so heartwarming to watch these guys gain confidence and start to shine. It takes time and effort, but it's worth it.

[Betsy]

I would not really classify Riley as a shy dog. He will go up to every single person (male/female/adult/kids) he sees whether he knows them or not, tail wagging, trying to jump up on them (bad, I know, we're working on it) and would like to greet every dog he meets one-on-one. If there were tons of other dogs around he may be more shy.

 

I guess it's just certain things that he is fearful about - the kitten for one. I do remember being in a pet store one day and the owners were fostering some 5-6 week old kittens. One hissed at him and he hid in a corner behind a display until I literally moved the kitten away. That is the ONLY bad experience he has had with cats, but I could say with 99% certainity that he has been afraid of new cats since that incidence (probably about 18 months ago). I guess that's the downside of having a dog with a great memory!

 

And the thunderstorms. Had a bad one the other day (the house next door got struck and the power surge killed our modem!) and he drooled a puddle on the ground and his front paws were damp from drool as well. Sometimes putting a (homemade) anxiety wrap on him, rescue remedy, melatonin, and his crate seem to help enough that he can sleep, but he is literally shaking when the storms start. We live in new construction so there are nail guns going all the time and he's scared of those too. Maybe I could walk him while I hear the nail guns and treat him. I'm afraid of bad timing and accidentally encouranging his fearfulness!

 

I don't really know what I'm asking. Probably the "right" answer is conditioning, but conditioning to new cats he has never met is not really readily available. But then again he meets a new cat only every couple of years so it's probably not a big deal.

 

But the thunderstorms / nail guns situation I do need to deal with. We're suppposed to get some storms this weekend. While I will be glad for the rain, I am dreading it!

[missing lacy's impish son]

Skylar wrote:

Well when we go for a walk and we go by a fenced in yard with a dog and they bark, he freaks out starts zig-zagging every which way, even if he can't see them he just has to hear a strange dog bark. when him and other dogs play he likes to find the smallest place he can fit it and hide, Someone said to me that he was probably the runt of the litter and picked on alot by the litter mates.

 

 

I wouldn't call this being "passive". I have a 10 year old that plays with bummer lambs and lets a feral half-bobcat sleep on him. I don't mean curl up next to him. The cat literally lies on top of him. I would call this behavior 'passive'.

Showing fear of other dogs as well as new situations often leads to the opposite behavior, fear aggression. My first BC had a problem with this. We had to set him up to learn that people were okay. We used his fanatic ball desire by having friends he didn't know play ball with him. This worked like a charm for people skills. In order to deal with other dogs, we brought in a passive happy Golden Retriever to play with someone else at the same time he was playing then slowly worked to the point where the Golden was playing with me and so was my dog. This really helped. Eventually he forgot the Golden was there. The next step was to bring in different dogs. Being consistent with his training time eventually turned him around to the point he enjoyed being loose in a 20 acre field interacting with 30-40 other herding dogs at a time.

[Lunar]

I just want to note something that happened yesterday at class with Zoe: we were inside, but the big doors will all open. There was some honking and strange noises outside, and Zoe would NOT settle down, she was panicking a little. The trainer told me I may have to let her look around outside to reassure herself that there was nothing scary there, before settling her back down.

 

I think hearing something without being able to see them - like dogs barking on the other side of the fence - is probably scarier than seeing something, because they don't know what it is or where it's coming from.

 

Keep practicing your training to get his attention on you (I'm working with Zoe on this, it's hard when she's nervous).