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Fear Aggression


Megs
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My dog is fear aggressive towards men, sometimes woman but normally strange men tend to get him going the worst.

 

I just wanted to ask if you think this is a case of genetics or my mistake of not socialising him enough with men (strangers)?

 

Im asking cause im struggling to get a hold of my emotions and just get on with training him and overcoming this ( he is only 15 months old ) but I keep coming back to the why? I feel like im on an emotional roller coaster.....

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You'll get a lot of different opinions on this, but from where I stand, I'd say to accept that it's not your fault and focus on learning what you need to know to help your dog now.

 

There are many, many, many dogs who were not properly socialized who have no fear issues whatsoever. And there are many dogs who were properly socialized who still deal with fear issues.

 

A dog who has a temperament that causes him or her to have fearful tendancies can be helped by socialization, but it's not always the case that fear in a dog is the "fault" of the handler. In fact, I don't even like to talk in terms of "fault" or "blame" in such cases. What is is. Your dog is afraid of strange men. You can help your dog to learn to deal with that fear.

 

My 8 year old Border Collie, Speedy, was pathologically fearful as a puppy. The only people or dogs in the world he was not utterly terrified of were my husband, me, and our dog, Sammie.

 

For a long time I blamed myself for this, thinking I hadn't socialized him properly. In the long run I came to see that he's not functioning with a full deck upstairs. That's biology. I didn't cause that. Had I known then what I know now, I could have helped him a lot earlier than I did, but then - if I didn't have him, I wouldn't know what I know now.

 

Owning and loving a fearful dog is an emotional roller coaster. At least it has been for me. In the early days I experienced a lot of frustration, and then heartbreak when I realized just how serious my puppy's problems were. After long years of work, training, conditioning, ups, downs, success, setbacks, and a lot of learning, we are in a great place. I learned to accept him for who he is, with his amazing talents, and with his limitations. And he has rewarded me over and over.

 

One of the greatest lessons I learned from him is that blame is useless. Sure, I made mistakes. I didn't do everything for him perfectly when he was young. I'll do better with my future dogs because of him, but I'll still make mistakes.

 

Blame is useless. Acceptance, learning, patience, and committment to helping the dog overcome those fears throughout his or her life is the way to go.

 

At least it has been for me. And for Speedy.

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Ditto what Kristine said. Having brought Shoshone into our home, totally unaware of the depth of her problems, we did make some mistakes in the first year or so.

 

However, we all have to start where we are. Not where we wish were, not where we'd like to be, but in this moment and this moment only. Self blame and regret, IMO, only delays actually dealing with the issue. For myself, I did have to acknowledge some grief, that Shonie would never be the dog I'd hoped she would be. But feeling that grief and at the same time, dealing with Shonie right in her reality were very different from blaming myself or the dog.

 

So, Chaos is afraid of men. There's a fearful dogs group on Yahoo Groups, I believe. Do some searching and you'll get more specific advice. For right now, don't put Chaos in situations he can't handle. No strangers approaching him, much less trying to pet him. Teach him to look to you when he is undertain. Step between him and the Big Scary Stranger if you need to. Teach him to walk behind you and sit when he's afraid.

 

At this point, whether it's genetic or a combination of genetics/environment doesn't make a difference with how you proceded now. Down the road, you'll know whether or not he'll ever be a happy go lucky kind of dog. For right now, work with him as he is, and go easy on yourself, too.

 

Good luck,

 

Ruth

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Many of us here have enjoyed Patricia McConnell's books. She's an animal behaviorist who worked professionally for many years with dogs with issues - including fear toward people or other dogs. She wrote "The Cautious Canine".

 

I really enjoy reading her blog: http://www.theotherendoftheleash.com/ . The most recent entry (Nov. 12) deals with dog-dog aggression. I know this isn't exactly Chaos' issue, but it's close enough that you might find it interesting to read.

 

Bottom line: someone with all the experience that Dr. McConnell possesses still has a Border collie she's had from a pup who doesn't deal well with other dogs. He's shown signs of it since he was 7 weeks old. He does have a younger full sibling with the same issues. Dr. McConnell has worked very hard with him and he's infinitely better off than he would have been in another set of hands. But there are components of temperament that, as Ruth and Kristine indicate, can be "hard-wired" and the best possible thing is to keep loving your dog for who he or she is and work to help them resolve their issues as best you're able.

 

Good luck!

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Scaredy Dogs by i believe it is Carolyn Byrne. JUST AMAZING!!! I thought i knew about fear until i watched this dvd. It explains everything from fear stages, how genetics are involved, how to overcome and troubleshooting. Generally it would be a fear that developed during a fear stage when your dog was a puppy. There may have been something that scared him and it may not have even been a man but there could have been a man there and he has linked his fear to that. Since then everytime he is reactive towards what is scary (a man) he is being self reinforced because generally the person will walk away or stay out of the dogs way. Not that it matters too much how the fear started as he has it now and it is just knowing what it is he is scared of and how to "Counter Condition" it.. It can be done but depending on how reactive the dog is it can take a while and he may never be completely cured of his fear but he can learn to tolerate it to a certain degree and know that it is OK. But i couldn't highly recommend the DVD enough. It is a Clean Run seminar and will really help you understand how dog fear works without being completely confusing.

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First, have you contacted your dog's breeder to see if there are other dogs from the litter or related dogs having the same issue?

 

Secondly, has your dog always shown this tendancy or is this something recent?

 

Unfortunately, temperament issues are not uncommon in some lines and can be horrible in a few. It is fairly common for this type of behavioral issue to surface at social maturity which is between 14 and 24 months depending on the dog. These issuse are certainly not caused by anything the owners unfortunate enough to buy such a dog did or did not do. There are ways you can help your dog. My 4 year old Border Collie has serious behavior issues and can be reactive and aggressive towards people. I worked with her using Control Unleashed exercises and she has come a very long way. She also, unfortunately, lives her life with limitations that my other dogs do not have to live by. She is never completely off lead off my own property. Any interactions she has with new people are strictly monitored by me and there are many places I do not take her and activities I do not do with her at all. However, all of that being said, she has also learned through the training and management to like people and it has been almost two years since she was reactive or showed aggression towards a person.

 

If you have previous training experience, the CU book will give you very good exercises to try with your dog. If you are a novice trainer or aren't confident in your behavior training skills, look for a Control Unleashed class or seminar in your area. They are popping up and being offered in more and more places.

 

In the meantime, keep in mind that this is not your fault and that it is not your dog's fault either. He cannot help how he was bred or what genes he inherited. He only knows that he is afraid and he is reacting in the only way he feels he can to protect himself.

 

Best of luck to you!

 

Jen Shipley

Flute AAD, AX, OAJ, OAC, OGC, NAJ - semi-retired

ADCH Enna TM - Silver, SACH, GCH, SCH, JCH, RCH, MX, MXJ - rescued champion

Rising Sun's Hot to the Touch - aka: Fever - retired due to epilepsy

Ignited's Molten Rush, aka: Lava - BC puppy in training

Kasi EAC,EGC,EJC, OA,OAJ - (1992-2007)

 

I did and it seems that some of the dogs do have a very "shy" temprement. Chaos is super sensitive and very scared by nature even with my brother or boyfriend, if they tell him no or just talk to him a bit too loudly or in a little bit more of a stern voice he will cower down and is scared. So I know that this is just the way he is!

 

Chaos was also diagnosed with OCD and so the breeder had to know about this - I told him but unfortunatly another litter was born this year from those same parents which I wasn't too happy about!

 

Thank you for the kind words, Chaos is my dear boy and I dreamt of all the thing we would do together and all the places we would go when I got him but I guess reality is a Bitch! I just have to accept that my dog and no dog will ever be perfect! I just found it very hard recently, emotionally.

 

Just last night after agility practise there were a couple of guys playing soccer and he didn't react at all, we did a big circle around them, keeping him attention on me with his beloved squeaky ball. One guy came closer to fetch the ball and Chaos was beginning to stare and I could see he would react, so I turned him and squeaked the ball - full attention on me again - YAY :rolleyes:

 

Secondly, has your dog always shown this tendancy or is this something recent?

 

Yes and no, Chaos is quite a sensitive boy and so has always been a bit fearful of certain people but it wasn't near what it is now. He had surgery on his shoulder and I believe that this sent him over the edge, vets coming at him, he was scared, they still kept coming, fear aggression got MUCH worse.....

 

PS - I live in South Africa and so there won't be any CU seminar's to join unfortunatly! I am ordering the book however - to arrive soon!

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Scaredy Dogs by i believe it is Carolyn Byrne. JUST AMAZING!!! I thought i knew about fear until i watched this dvd. It explains everything from fear stages, how genetics are involved, how to overcome and troubleshooting. Generally it would be a fear that developed during a fear stage when your dog was a puppy. There may have been something that scared him and it may not have even been a man but there could have been a man there and he has linked his fear to that. Since then everytime he is reactive towards what is scary (a man) he is being self reinforced because generally the person will walk away or stay out of the dogs way. Not that it matters too much how the fear started as he has it now and it is just knowing what it is he is scared of and how to "Counter Condition" it.. It can be done but depending on how reactive the dog is it can take a while and he may never be completely cured of his fear but he can learn to tolerate it to a certain degree and know that it is OK. But i couldn't highly recommend the DVD enough. It is a Clean Run seminar and will really help you understand how dog fear works without being completely confusing.

 

THANK YOU - I will see if I can order it from here! Some things are just impossible to get down here or down right dirty expensive!!!

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You'll get a lot of different opinions on this, but from where I stand, I'd say to accept that it's not your fault and focus on learning what you need to know to help your dog now.

 

There are many, many, many dogs who were not properly socialized who have no fear issues whatsoever. And there are many dogs who were properly socialized who still deal with fear issues.

 

A dog who has a temperament that causes him or her to have fearful tendancies can be helped by socialization, but it's not always the case that fear in a dog is the "fault" of the handler. In fact, I don't even like to talk in terms of "fault" or "blame" in such cases. What is is. Your dog is afraid of strange men. You can help your dog to learn to deal with that fear.

 

My 8 year old Border Collie, Speedy, was pathologically fearful as a puppy. The only people or dogs in the world he was not utterly terrified of were my husband, me, and our dog, Sammie.

 

For a long time I blamed myself for this, thinking I hadn't socialized him properly. In the long run I came to see that he's not functioning with a full deck upstairs. That's biology. I didn't cause that. Had I known then what I know now, I could have helped him a lot earlier than I did, but then - if I didn't have him, I wouldn't know what I know now.

 

Owning and loving a fearful dog is an emotional roller coaster. At least it has been for me. In the early days I experienced a lot of frustration, and then heartbreak when I realized just how serious my puppy's problems were. After long years of work, training, conditioning, ups, downs, success, setbacks, and a lot of learning, we are in a great place. I learned to accept him for who he is, with his amazing talents, and with his limitations. And he has rewarded me over and over.

 

One of the greatest lessons I learned from him is that blame is useless. Sure, I made mistakes. I didn't do everything for him perfectly when he was young. I'll do better with my future dogs because of him, but I'll still make mistakes.

 

Blame is useless. Acceptance, learning, patience, and committment to helping the dog overcome those fears throughout his or her life is the way to go.

 

At least it has been for me. And for Speedy.

 

Thank you Kristine, I believe you made me think differently about this in so many ways! I need to stop wishing and start working :rolleyes: he is my perfect boy but just needs some help - thats all. Your words mean alot - I appreacite it!

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Yes and no, Chaos is quite a sensitive boy and so has always been a bit fearful of certain people but it wasn't near what it is now. He had surgery on his shoulder and I believe that this sent him over the edge, vets coming at him, he was scared, they still kept coming, fear aggression got MUCH worse.....

 

PS - I live in South Africa and so there won't be any CU seminar's to join unfortunatly! I am ordering the book however - to arrive soon!

 

Hmm, maybe Leslie McDevitt would like a trip to Africa. :rolleyes: It is a little out of range of where she usually holds seminars. :D

 

You can work through the exercises on your own. Read the book first.

 

Take your time.

 

Move forward with the training in tiny, baby steps.

 

If your dog reacts during training, back your training up a bit and go slowly in moving forward again.

 

Be very aware of your environment and don't let your guard down when you have your dog out in public. Always be aware of what is going on, if a person or people appear while you are working with your dog that you feel may frighten him, remove him from the situation before he can react.

 

Have anyone that will be someone who will be a regular fixture in your boy's life work with you with him.

 

Never force interaction. If he looks or acts even remotely uncomfortable ask the person to back away or back your dog away yourself.

 

Make sure you are in control of how others interact with your dog at all times. In that way you can protect both him from behavior (no matter how unintentional) and protect the person involved who he will react against.

 

I personally corrected Fever for aggressive reactions although Control Unleashed does not include correction in it's program. I do feel that you have to be very careful about how and when correction is applied if you are going to use it with a fearful dog. A gruff and assertive verbal correction is a big deal to Fever and I used it carefully and sparingly. I also always then immediately worked with Fever using my favorite CU exercise, Look at That, until she was calm and reacting positively before removing her totally from the situation. However, it was several months into work with her, 5 + days a week for a couple of hours a day a day building up her comfort level and ability to choose a positive reaction before I ever put her anywhere near anything I felt might cause a reaction.

 

Best of luck with your boy.

 

Jen

Flute AAD, AX, OAJ, OAC, OGC, NAJ - semi-retired

ADCH Enna TM - Silver, SACH, GCH, SCH, JCH, RCH, MX, MXJ - rescued champion

Rising Sun's Hot to the Touch - aka: Fever - retired due to epilepsy

Ignited's Molten Rush, aka: Lava - BC puppy in training

Kasi EAC,EGC,EJC, OA,OAJ - (1992-2007)

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As you can see, you are not alone. Chase is a shy, sensitive and fearful type of dog and in the beginning, I had a difficult time accepting this fact. With each new dog comes new hopes and dreams. I love competing in dog sports and just realizing that this may never happen with Chase was very hard for me.

Simply accepting him for what he is, changing my mindset and educating myself (through the knowledge on this site, other sites that members here have mentioned and books that have been mentioned) has made a world of difference. I'm actually enjoying the process, it's a learning experience for me. It's not been easy and Chase still isn't what some might call *perfect* and maybe never will be. But the progress he's made, and continues to make, is incredible. It's all the more worthwhile when others notice and comment. I'm so amazed and proud of him.

 

I remember reading about the successes of others on this board with dogs with various types of issues and I remember wishing that I had a dog that would be able to overcome his issues but back then, I didn't believe or think I did. I do!

I can see now that Chase will be able to compete in agility at some point (if I can ever get with the program and keep up with him :rolleyes: ). I'll go where he takes me and enjoy the ride.

 

Have patience, notice the small successes and educate yourself, seems like you're on the right path.

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The best advice is just accept the dog for what he/she is... with training things can get better. For more extreme cases drugs can be and should be tried.

 

My Tempe has many issues and it has taken me a couple years to accept that she is what she is. I can help her in some aspects but in others she won't change. I have had to alter my training to fit HER needs. I have also added melatonin for her and it helps. For many melatonin won't work and they made need something stronger from the vets. For some dogs just changing your techniques can be what helps them the most.

 

Tempe's confidence has started to improve, she doesn't run from the room over little things any more and recently she has started to be able to compete in flyball. If she shows me she does not want to compete then she won't compete. She is my pet first and sports is just an activity.

 

She is still not perfect and never will be but she is trying. We are learning together.

 

She is what she is and we are having fun together finally. I no longer stress about her being afraid of so many things which that in itself is helping.

 

Just enjoy the dog you have and work on the issues that arise.

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