Persistant Right Aortic Arch

[Raven Lenore]

I had a puppy born with this defect, also known as PRAA. Has anyone experience this with their litters? She is going to have surgery to correct it next Friday. Til then I have been feeding her mush by hand and keeping her with her momma alot. The litter will be 6 weeks old tomorrow. The rest of the pups are great. I am just wondering if anyone has had this problem and what to expect after the surgery. The surgeon said there is a chance her esophagus may not be normal.

 

Rayna

[kelpiegirl]

I would write a list of questions to give to your surgeon (and let him take it, so he can take his time to answer). Heart surgery is risky in anyone. So young, but pups can be fighters. Regarding the esophagus, that may be true. You will find that pups in litters who have defects, may have other, unseen defects. I admire you for being strong, and helping the pup. Please keep us updated.

 

I had a puppy born with this defect, also known as PRAA. Has anyone experience this with their litters? She is going to have surgery to correct it next Friday. Til then I have been feeding her mush by hand and keeping her with her momma alot. The litter will be 6 weeks old tomorrow. The rest of the pups are great. I am just wondering if anyone has had this problem and what to expect after the surgery. The surgeon said there is a chance her esophagus may not be normal.

 

Rayna

[Sue R]

What Julie said. Our vet warned us when we got Bute that, as Julie mentioned, a pup (or litter) with a defect may also have more than one. We found, to our sadness, that our Bute was one of those pups - he had several defects, some not recognizable at a young age, one of which may have directly or indirectly led to his premature death. I think you need to be very aware of possible issues and always on the alert for symptoms of problems - we were not aware of the seriousness of some issues that Bute had. If we had, we may have been able to help him lead a longer, more pleasant life.

 

As little as your or I would like to hear it, it might be merciful in the long run (to both you and the pup) to consider euthanization. I would certainly advise against that pairing ever again, and wonder about the advisability of breeding either parent again, dependent on what the genetic factors are that produce this sort of defect (whether it's produced by a random mutation, whether it's due to recessive genes, and so on).

 

A person contacted me about a pup (with a birth defect) that the breeder sold her for "half price", as the breeder felt that I would put her mind at ease because this pup's defect was similar to the one that was readily visible in Bute - but it was much more serious. It would require a serious and expensive investment in oral surgery to cope with this defect (severe overshot jaw, already impacting the palate - much more extreme than Bute's). I could not put her mind at ease at all and felt that breeder was not being responsible in passing on a pup with such a defect (and even less so for selling her for "half price") - and that was before we realized the full extent of Bute's defects.

 

I guess that what I am saying is that, while I admire your desire to take care of this pup, I don't really think it wise to take on such a pup with both a known defect and possibly additional defects, and don't feel it a responsible breeder that would place such a health-challenged pup in a home. But, strictly, my opinion as I don't have an emotional investment in this pup.

 

Best wishes to you in your decisions with regards to this little pup - maybe someone with experience with this issue can give you some positive encouragement.

[Raven Lenore]

I have no plans on selling this pup. But I have to heard of breeders that will discount puppies with defects, just so they don't lose money on the litter. Very crapping to both the buyer and puppy. I will keep her around and see how she does and if any other problems come up. I don't know if she will survive the surgery or not. I have another dog that was injured very young and many people thought I should have put her down as well, but I didn't have the heart to and she is now a very happy adult dog. Still with me, and does have some neurological problems, but does very well.

 

The Dam had a litter last year and had no problems to date with any of those pups. This is the sire's first litter. I have not told his owner's yet, just haven't seen them. But do plan on letting them know.

 

I was just curious if anyone else had this with the breed. We see the surgeon Friday and I will ask him.

[Sue R]

Apparently you are a breeder of your Border Collies. You might wish to read the "Read this first" statement, which explains the philosophy of this board and the board's outlook on breeding.

 

Best wishes with your little special-needs pup.

[Raven Lenore]

Didn't see anything in that post that said that I am not allowed to come on this board and ask questions regarding a birth defect in a Border Collie. I understand that the Border Collie is a "protected breed", however, if PRAA becomes a problem in this breed, would you not want to be notified and understand what it is and what causes it? I could have euthanized the damn pup, said nothing, and continue to breed those two dogs again and again and hope it never shows up again. But no, I chose to keep the puppy, spend over a grand for surgery, to see if she will have a quality of life as a pet dog. I have tried to research this problem, with not much luck.

 

If anyone does care to know, the surgeon said it is a birth defect with a possibility of being polygenetic. Not really enough research about it. The breeds that do seem to have higher incidence is probably a genetic defect. With both parents being a carrier. But since I can't find out anything about Borders having it, I am assuming it is a birth defect. Human babies can have the same problem.

 

I understand that this is a working board, but when it comes to genetic issues, it shouldn't matter who's dog has it. What should matter is that it showed up in your breed. By keeping anything like this quite, you are only hiding the problem and hurting the breed. If 10 people had pups with PRAA and no one wanted to say anything because, god forbid, it would ruin their breeding program, then what happens would it starts showing up in more and more litters? Sure it's an easy fix, euthanzie the dog. The South African Boerboel people are the same way as Border Collie people. Wobblers started showing up in a few dogs here and there but no one was talking. Suddenly, several dogs had been diagnosed and most could be traced back to one line. Why didn't anyone come forward sooner? Boerboel breeders are also split. Half are for working dogs, half are for show/pet. The blame started being pointed at those that were showing dogs. But where did the wobblers show up first? In the "working" lines.

 

So the next time you want to come on here and judge me because I have the occassional litter, at least I AM trying to keep my line free of genetic issues. I AM trying to research what went wrong. I DO care about the breed enough to let everyone know what happened. And yes, these puppies are ABCA registered so if this is a genetic issues, it could affect all your dogs...

[kelpiegirl]

How is your pup? Did she have the surgery? I know that PRAA occurs in just about every breed, regardless of the lines. Like I mentioned, applaud you for trying with her.

 

 

Didn't see anything in that post that said that I am not allowed to come on this board and ask questions regarding a birth defect in a Border Collie. I understand that the Border Collie is a "protected breed", however, if PRAA becomes a problem in this breed, would you not want to be notified and understand what it is and what causes it? I could have euthanized the damn pup, said nothing, and continue to breed those two dogs again and again and hope it never shows up again. But no, I chose to keep the puppy, spend over a grand for surgery, to see if she will have a quality of life as a pet dog. I have tried to research this problem, with not much luck.

 

If anyone does care to know, the surgeon said it is a birth defect with a possibility of being polygenetic. Not really enough research about it. The breeds that do seem to have higher incidence is probably a genetic defect. With both parents being a carrier. But since I can't find out anything about Borders having it, I am assuming it is a birth defect. Human babies can have the same problem.

 

I understand that this is a working board, but when it comes to genetic issues, it shouldn't matter who's dog has it. What should matter is that it showed up in your breed. By keeping anything like this quite, you are only hiding the problem and hurting the breed. If 10 people had pups with PRAA and no one wanted to say anything because, god forbid, it would ruin their breeding program, then what happens would it starts showing up in more and more litters? Sure it's an easy fix, euthanzie the dog. The South African Boerboel people are the same way as Border Collie people. Wobblers started showing up in a few dogs here and there but no one was talking. Suddenly, several dogs had been diagnosed and most could be traced back to one line. Why didn't anyone come forward sooner? Boerboel breeders are also split. Half are for working dogs, half are for show/pet. The blame started being pointed at those that were showing dogs. But where did the wobblers show up first? In the "working" lines.

 

So the next time you want to come on here and judge me because I have the occassional litter, at least I AM trying to keep my line free of genetic issues. I AM trying to research what went wrong. I DO care about the breed enough to let everyone know what happened. And yes, these puppies are ABCA registered so if this is a genetic issues, it could affect all your dogs...

[Sue R]

Well, that's a bit of an over-reaction. I've wished you and the little pup well in my other posts, and I'll reiterate that here, but I'm sure not getting into a shouting match with someone who made a public post and asked for input.

 

Best wishes for you and the little pup in whatever you decide is best to do.

 

Didn't see anything in that post that said that I am not allowed to come on this board and ask questions regarding a birth defect in a Border Collie. I understand that the Border Collie is a "protected breed", however, if PRAA becomes a problem in this breed, would you not want to be notified and understand what it is and what causes it? I could have euthanized the damn pup, said nothing, and continue to breed those two dogs again and again and hope it never shows up again. But no, I chose to keep the puppy, spend over a grand for surgery, to see if she will have a quality of life as a pet dog. I have tried to research this problem, with not much luck.

 

If anyone does care to know, the surgeon said it is a birth defect with a possibility of being polygenetic. Not really enough research about it. The breeds that do seem to have higher incidence is probably a genetic defect. With both parents being a carrier. But since I can't find out anything about Borders having it, I am assuming it is a birth defect. Human babies can have the same problem.

 

I understand that this is a working board, but when it comes to genetic issues, it shouldn't matter who's dog has it. What should matter is that it showed up in your breed. By keeping anything like this quite, you are only hiding the problem and hurting the breed. If 10 people had pups with PRAA and no one wanted to say anything because, god forbid, it would ruin their breeding program, then what happens would it starts showing up in more and more litters? Sure it's an easy fix, euthanzie the dog. The South African Boerboel people are the same way as Border Collie people. Wobblers started showing up in a few dogs here and there but no one was talking. Suddenly, several dogs had been diagnosed and most could be traced back to one line. Why didn't anyone come forward sooner? Boerboel breeders are also split. Half are for working dogs, half are for show/pet. The blame started being pointed at those that were showing dogs. But where did the wobblers show up first? In the "working" lines.

 

So the next time you want to come on here and judge me because I have the occassional litter, at least I AM trying to keep my line free of genetic issues. I AM trying to research what went wrong. I DO care about the breed enough to let everyone know what happened. And yes, these puppies are ABCA registered so if this is a genetic issues, it could affect all your dogs...