How do you teach a dog to stay with you

[ejano]

you may end up with one that needs to be taught to stay with you.

From the recent post about puppy personalities....prompted this question about my bold, fearless Robin...

 

Just got back from one of those wonderful challenging walks with the dogs. My sister had Brodie, Ladybug was loose (she'd come back from the moon if you called her), and I had my usual tussle with Robin. On a six foot lead he does very well, but he's killing me on the long lead. We plunge from woodchuck hole to chipmunk den, to mouse nest to the creek with all the grace of a thundering herd of elephants.

 

If I turned him loose, I know he'd be in the next county, unless he happened to hit a body of water, in which case, he'd be there forever.

He pulled himself right out of the easy walker today and both I and the pet store owner fit him with it together so I know it was the best possible fit....he's got a big girth and a somewhat narrow chest.

 

 

How do I teach him to stay with me if we're constantly fighting his pulling on the long lead? All this pulling is no fun for either of us, and I'm worried about damage to his neck. The only thing I know to do is call him back to me with a sharp tug and he does come, but his eye is on the horizon. He doesn't even care for a treat.

 

Liz

[Debbie Meier]

Hi Liz, first you need to stop allowing him to drag you around, you should be taking him places. If you have him on the long line to exercise he still needs to factor you in all of the time.

 

What you allow on the leash/rope is what you are going to get when the leash/rope is removed. basically you are teaching him what is acceptable by allowing it. Use the rope/leash as a tool to help you communicate with your dog so that you can teach him proper behaivor vs. a restraint preventing him from running off and getting away from you.

 

There are a lot of different approaches, some people have great success by utilizing threats, other need to use corrections, it just depends on the individual dog and finding the best approach for both of you.

 

Here is an article about retractable leashes, just replace "retractable leash" with "long line", I think it may help you understand what you have going on.

 

http://www.smartdogtrainer.com/retractable...0and%20cons.htm

[JohnLloydJones]

He pulled himself right out of the easy walker today and both I and the pet store owner fit him with it together so I know it was the best possible fit....he's got a big girth and a somewhat narrow chest.

I have used an easy walker on Senneca; I can't understand that a dog can pull out of it, if it is properly fitted.

 

Personally, I would never use a long line (or horror, a flexi-leash) with a dog that hasn't mastered leash manners. [see also above ^^^]

[ejano]

Hi Liz, first you need to stop allowing him to drag you around, you should be taking him places. If you have him on the long line to exercise he still needs to factor you in all of the time.

 

What you allow on the leash/rope is what you are going to get when the leash/rope is removed. basically you are teaching him what is acceptable by allowing it. Use the rope/leash as a tool to help you communicate with your dog so that you can teach him proper behaivor vs. a restraint preventing him from running off and getting away from you.

 

There are a lot of different approaches, some people have great success by utilizing threats, other need to use corrections, it just depends on the individual dog and finding the best approach for both of you.

 

Here is an article about retractable leashes, just replace "retractable leash" with "long line", I think it may help you understand what you have going on.

 

http://www.smartdogtrainer.com/retractable...0and%20cons.htm

 

Thanks, Deb. I do correct him on the long lead, basically by turning around and heading in the opposite direction, but then he charges on ahead, looking for the next great thing. Honestly, his enthusiasm for life is priceless. We should all be that happy, even when we're getting yelled at. He'll take the correction and immediately repeat the behavior. I'll read the article and employ the suggestions.

 

I actually just had him out, working off lead and he is so responsive without the lead between us. He stops and gets back in line, halts and sits when asked. A perfect gentleman. He just gets so darned excited on the field walks, especially now we've rpeated several walks and that there are special places that he remembers and wants to get to in a hurry. When he hits the end of that lead, he wins. He's a forty pound dog now and he's always been just that much stronger than me because of my surgery this spring so he's always "won" when he dashes out because I hadn't the strength to stop him from yanking me around. When I reel him in so to speak and have him at a heel when we're going over a particularly rough spot, he's very good, goes slow with no pulling and actually helps to steady me, which is what i want -- then its off to the races again when I give him the length of the lead. Is there a "puller" gene or did we just get off on the wrong foot? I'm so worried about him hurting his neck. The harness isn't going to help if he can slip out of it like that. I checked the fit again and its the best it can be.

 

Liz

[ejano]

I have used an easy walker on Senneca; I can't understand that a dog can pull out of it, if it is properly fitted.

 

Personally, I would never use a long line (or horror, a flexi-leash) with a dog that hasn't mastered leash manners. [see also above ^^^]

 

He's got great manners on the 6 foot lead and is making nice progress doing some beginner off lead work. I can't figure out the easy walker either...it fits as well as it can, but the chest is loose even though it is as buckled up as it gets. He had the lead underneath him and basically just walked right out of it though the girth belt, which fits great, stayed in place which is how I caught up with him. His zest for life just overcomes all obstacles.

 

Here were his immediate goals today... the mouse condo and the muskrat den! (He's the tail in the group picture underneath the pile of brush)

 

Liz

[JohnLloydJones]

I can't figure out the easy walker either...it fits as well as it can, but the chest is loose even though it is as buckled up as it gets.

 

Well, if the chest is loose, you have the wrong size.

[Debbie Meier]

Liz,

 

There are more articles on that website that are really good. I think one is called "The 7 Biggest Mistakes Puppy Owners Make" another is "Rewarding Bad Behaivor"

 

I do correct him on the long lead, basically by turning around and heading in the opposite direction, but then he charges on ahead, looking for the next great thing.

 

That is not a correction, it sounds like he has been taught that when the rope stops him from going this way just change and run a different way. He needs to be taught that when he hits the end of the rope that he was doing something that was not wanted.

 

Another thing, I'm not trying to be mean but it seems like you think his behaivor is kinda cute, I was just working with someone that let their dog do the same thing, one day the dog took off after a squirrel, tripped her with the rope causing the owner a severe knee injury.

 

Deb

[ejano]

Liz,

 

There are more articles on that website that are really good. I think one is called "The 7 Biggest Mistakes Puppy Owners Make" another is "Rewarding Bad Behaivor"

That is not a correction, it sounds like he has been taught that when the rope stops him from going this way just change and run a different way. He needs to be taught that when he hits the end of the rope that he was doing something that was not wanted.

 

Another thing, I'm not trying to be mean but it seems like you think his behaivor is kinda cute, I was just working with someone that let their dog do the same thing, one day the dog took off after a squirrel, tripped her with the rope causing the owner a severe knee injury.

 

Deb

 

No, you're not being mean. Obsessive parents think everything thing their kiddies do is cute . The behavior is not cute....I had a knee replacement last December and a third of my lung removed in Feb. I'm lucky to be walking, actually lucky to be alive, and I intend to stay upright and uninjured. Yes, he is cute, because he has a zest for life that has brought me back to life. I never would have believed that I would be walking the places that I am and doing so well. I feel so heathy again, and its partly due to having to get my rear in gear to work with Robin and Brodie. But I am still a bit unsteady on rough ground. That's why when we're crossing a particular tricky spot, i.e. a stone wall, Robin is trained to stand as still as a rock while I go over and then he comes along. He's very good about that.

 

With the long lead, what do I do, if I don't change direction? That worked with the short leash....at the suggestion of this board, I backed up (reversing direction) forcing him to come with me. He got that message and so I thought to apply it to the long lead. Unfortunately, in the field, he's just as happy to go one direction as the other, as long as he's going. Doing the tree thing doesn't work. He just digs in like an old draft horse. I don't want to yank him off his feet and risk hurting his neck. I've been working with the clicker -- calling him and if he even looks my way, he gets a click.

 

I'm thinking of giving him an intermediate length, one at which he behaves then gradually upping the distance again. What do you think?

 

Liz

[Ooky]

I actually just had him out, working off lead and he is so responsive without the lead between us. He stops and gets back in line, halts and sits when asked. A perfect gentleman. He just gets so darned excited on the field walks, especially now we've rpeated several walks and that there are special places that he remembers and wants to get to in a hurry. When he hits the end of that lead, he wins. He's a forty pound dog now and he's always been just that much stronger than me because of my surgery this spring so he's always "won" when he dashes out because I hadn't the strength to stop him from yanking me around. When I reel him in so to speak and have him at a heel when we're going over a particularly rough spot, he's very good, goes slow with no pulling and actually helps to steady me, which is what i want -- then its off to the races again when I give him the length of the lead. Is there a "puller" gene or did we just get off on the wrong foot? I'm so worried about him hurting his neck. The harness isn't going to help if he can slip out of it like that. I checked the fit again and its the best it can be.

 

I would work on stopping him *before* he hit the end. If he responds to a "stop" or "here" command off lead in the yard, he at least knows it. If he likes a ball or something you could use that as a reward for redirecting and coming back to you. Just keep bringing him back, and back, and back. It's what I do when I take the long lead off as well - especially at first I stay really proactive and 1) don't let his attention get off of me for very long and 2) don't allow him to go very far away.

 

A second thing that might help is teaching him to walk behind you. You can use a long stick to sort of swing out and mark where he cannot go any further than your leg. If out of the corner of your eye you see a nose peeking past your knee, whip the stick out - you don't even have to hit him, just make it clear there is a set barrier there. As he naturally fades back from the pressure, mark the behavior with a "walk behind" command. Some people don't like this because the dog is out of your sight, but he will definitely not be pulling your arm out of the socket either, and on a long line he can fade back and have a little freedom as long as he keeps following within the length of line.

 

Finally, I don't remember what brand of no-pull harness we used but I agree with JLJ that it sounds like yours might be too big. Ours pulled tight across the chest when he pulled, so he couldn't have pulled out of it - the more he pulled the tighter it was.

 

Good luck! There probably is a lot of personality at play here. Odin is also very enthusiastic though, and I have been able to train him to stay within any radius of me depending on whether we're in the field (and what kind of site it is) vs. in the city on the sidewalks. He is not velcro and given the opportunity would eventually take off out of sight if allowed. His radius can be adjusted by how frequently and at what distance I keep calling him back. The fact I've been able to do this with a drivey little collie should be a good sign to anyone because like I've said before I certainly have no great training ability - just specific goals and stubbornness

[ejano]

Well, if the chest is loose, you have the wrong size.

 

The next smaller size doesn't fit his girth. His a big dog with a skinny chest. I'll look into making some custom adjustments. There's a place that makes seat covers for boats and the like. They'll have heavy sewing machines.

[Debbie Meier]

Hi Liz,

 

If what you did on the short leash worked, it should be working on the long line providing that you are applying the technique the same way, you just want a little different end, insteading coming back to you phisically you want him to come back to you mentally (being attentive).

 

So let's break it down, I hope I get all of your steps right, forgive me if I don't, fill in what I miss:

 

1: The dog sees something and begins to leave

 

2: The dog hits the end of the leash

 

3: You stop which prevents the dog from continuing after what it sees

 

4: The dog stops

 

5. You back up

 

6; The dog comes with you giving you his attention while giving to the leash

 

7. You stop, which gives the dog his reward for giving his attention to you

 

Now on the long line are you repeating the identical same procedure and are you getting the same responses from the dog on each step? I'm guessing that things are going wrong on step 5 and 6, rather then backing up you are going a different direction teaching "let's go this way", remember your dog is going to look toward where you are going when you turn and your letting the dog go off in a different direction which is his reward.

 

Sometimes breaking things down into little steps helps to figure out why a process works at hand but does not at distance. Without realizing it we are not teaching what we really want.

 

Also, you may need to go to a shorter rope, or just don't let give so much of the long one, don't let him have more then you can successfully teach with. Another thing, I would not let him go digging and hunting anymore, your just giving him more reason to want to be away from you. After you are successful at teaching him to stay with you then you can let him go play knowing that the moment you call he will be there or that he will be well aware of you while he is doing something else.

 

Ooky gives great advice too!!

[JohnLloydJones]

The next smaller size doesn't fit his girth. His a big dog with a skinny chest.

Did you try it for size? Although they commonly don't stock them in shops, there are intermediate sizes (you can order them online).

[ejano]

Did you try it for size? Although they commonly don't stock them in shops, there are intermediate sizes (you can order them online).

 

YEs, we fitted it in the store...it is an intermediate size. I didn't check it very carefully when he lost it, just slung it around my neck and clipped the line to his collar. He may even have broken it, but I know the fit was loose around the chest.

 

Liz

[Root Beer]

YEs, we fitted it in the store...it is an intermediate size. I didn't check it very carefully when he lost it, just slung it around my neck and clipped the line to his collar. He may even have broken it, but I know the fit was loose around the chest.

 

Liz

 

If the size is correct, maybe you got one that is manufactured improperly or it did, in fact, break. There wouldn't be any way that one that is operating correctly would fall off a dog.

 

Maybe one of the plastic clips popped open or something.

 

If you still have the packaging, you might want to exchange it and try a different one.

[Megs]

you may end up with one that needs to be taught to stay with you.

From the recent post about puppy personalities....prompted this question about my bold, fearless Robin...

 

Just got back from one of those wonderful challenging walks with the dogs. My sister had Brodie, Ladybug was loose (she'd come back from the moon if you called her), and I had my usual tussle with Robin. On a six foot lead he does very well, but he's killing me on the long lead. We plunge from woodchuck hole to chipmunk den, to mouse nest to the creek with all the grace of a thundering herd of elephants.

 

If I turned him loose, I know he'd be in the next county, unless he happened to hit a body of water, in which case, he'd be there forever.

He pulled himself right out of the easy walker today and both I and the pet store owner fit him with it together so I know it was the best possible fit....he's got a big girth and a somewhat narrow chest.

How do I teach him to stay with me if we're constantly fighting his pulling on the long lead? All this pulling is no fun for either of us, and I'm worried about damage to his neck. The only thing I know to do is call him back to me with a sharp tug and he does come, but his eye is on the horizon. He doesn't even care for a treat.

 

Liz

 

OMG - I read this and just thought - Chaos! He sounds just like Chaos! So I can't really be of any help on your questions I am still waiting for my easy walker and now im scared

 

I go to a braai at a friends place and Chaos refuses to get out the pool! He swims and swims and swims, same goes for our holiday trips to Beaverlac he will not get out the water in the bush until we decide we are going back to the campsite!

 

GOOD LUCK - I know I need it

[ejano]

Hi Liz,

 

If what you did on the short leash worked, it should be working on the long line providing that you are applying the technique the same way, you just want a little different end, insteading coming back to you phisically you want him to come back to you mentally (being attentive).

 

So let's break it down, I hope I get all of your steps right, forgive me if I don't, fill in what I miss:

 

1: The dog sees something and begins to leave

 

2: The dog hits the end of the leash

 

3: You stop which prevents the dog from continuing after what it sees

 

4: The dog stops

 

5. You back up

 

6; The dog comes with you giving you his attention while giving to the leash

 

7. You stop, which gives the dog his reward for giving his attention to you

 

Now on the long line are you repeating the identical same procedure and are you getting the same responses from the dog on each step? I'm guessing that things are going wrong on step 5 and 6, rather then backing up you are going a different direction teaching "let's go this way", remember your dog is going to look toward where you are going when you turn and your letting the dog go off in a different direction which is his reward.

 

Sometimes breaking things down into little steps helps to figure out why a process works at hand but does not at distance. Without realizing it we are not teaching what we really want.

 

Also, you may need to go to a shorter rope, or just don't let give so much of the long one, don't let him have more then you can successfully teach with. Another thing, I would not let him go digging and hunting anymore, your just giving him more reason to want to be away from you. After you are successful at teaching him to stay with you then you can let him go play knowing that the moment you call he will be there or that he will be well aware of you while he is doing something else.

 

Ooky gives great advice too!!

 

Thanks to you and Ooky! Things are definitely going wrong at steps six and seven...he just charges on past without a backward glance. The intermediate length of leash is a good idea....give him just enough that I can work with him. I've always had good results with the clicker with him, too so I'll start fitting that in, as he comes toward me, and bring a higher value treat along as a reward for coming. We're off to the field again today, just the two of us. Thanks to the hurricane in NC, PA is receiving some great mild weather and we're going to make the best of it!

 

Liz