brentd49 Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 I'm getting a new puppy in a couple weeks and have read a good deal about the importance of socialization at a young age. I know puppies training to be service dogs are carried into grocery stores, etc. I'm not trying to raise a service dog, per se, but I would like like my dog to have that level of comfort so that he can go with me as much as possible. What do you think? Should I get a baby sling and throw the pup in there when I go to the grocery store, or am I crazy? (Though if you have an alternative to a baby sling that is more manly, let me know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenajo Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 I know what you mean about raising them like a service dog. I socialize my puppies to that level too. It makes a nicer dog to live with imo, and for me if something happens to their herding career they've got the background to be prepared for a lot of other activities to keep them fit and happy. I don't like the sling (hope you are kidding!) because its not comfortable and the puppy doesn't really have to deal with the world at all. Slings encourage little dogs like that to either cower or snap at people imo. If you want a safer way (instead of walking on filthy floors) to do places like PetSmart/Lowes/Home Depot with a young puppy then put them in the shopping cart. Bring a pad so they aren't sitting on the wire and keep your leash short enough they can't do a dive at first. When I'm socializing several puppies at once it's easy to miss something if you aren't careful. I keep a log to check of things I want them to see/do. Form 8 weeks to 12 weeks I apply Ian Dunbar's rules that need to meet 100 different people of all shapes and sizes. When I say "meet" I meen have a positive interaction with - walk with them, be fed a treat, etc. Not just "hanging around" them. The hanging around people are just gravy I also apply the Puppy Rule of 12 - no idea who originated this, but it's served me well for years. Here it is as it was sent to me: "between 8 and 12 weeks puppy should: Experienced 12 different surface: wood, woodchips, carpet tile, cement, linoleum, grass, wet grass, dirt, mud, puddles grates, uneven surfaces, on a table, on a chair, etc... Played with 12 different objects: fuzzy toys, big & small balls, hard toys, funny sounding toys, wooden items, paper or cartboard items, milk jugs, metal items, etc... Experienced 12 different locations: front yard (daily), other people's homes, school yard, lake, pond, river, boat, basement, elevator, car, moving car, garage, laundry room, kennel, vet hospital (just to say hi and visit, lots of cookies) grooming salon (just to say hi) etc... Met and played with 12 new people: (outside of family) include children, adults (male and female) elderly adults, people in wheelchairs, walkers people with canes, crutches, hats, sunglasses, etc... Exposed to 12 different noises: (ALWAYS keep positive and watch puppy's comfort level-we don't want the puppy scared) garage door opening, doorbell, children playing, babies screaming, big trucks, Harley motorcycles, skateboards, washing machine, shopping carts, power bost, clapping, pan dropping, vacuums, lawnmowers, etc... Exposed to 12 fast moving objects: (Don't allow to chase) skateboards, roller-blades, bikes, motorcycles, cars, people running, cats running, scooters, children running, squirrels, horses running, etc... Make sure all experiences are safe and positive for the puppy. Each encounter should include treats and lots of praise. Slow down and add distance if your puppy is scared! " Add to this list any thing or activity that you can. For me I'm also taking my pups with me to stock, and they learn about things like barns, tractors, chickens, hay balers etc. And then theirs basic training - sit, down, walking on leash. Oooooh, I've got puppy fever right. Can't have one, can't have one, can't have one.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brentd49 Posted November 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 I know what you mean about raising them like a service dog. I socialize my puppies to that level too. It makes a nicer dog to live with imo, and for me if something happens to their herding career they've got the background to be prepared for a lot of other activities to keep them fit and happy. I don't like the sling (hope you are kidding!) because its not comfortable and the puppy doesn't really have to deal with the world at all. Slings encourage little dogs like that to either cower or snap at people imo. If you want a safer way (instead of walking on filthy floors) to do places like PetSmart/Lowes/Home Depot with a young puppy then put them in the shopping cart. Bring a pad so they aren't sitting on the wire and keep your leash short enough they can't do a dive at first. When I'm socializing several puppies at once it's easy to miss something if you aren't careful. I keep a log to check of things I want them to see/do. Form 8 weeks to 12 weeks I apply Ian Dunbar's rules that need to meet 100 different people of all shapes and sizes. When I say "meet" I meen have a positive interaction with - walk with them, be fed a treat, etc. Not just "hanging around" them. The hanging around people are just gravy I also apply the Puppy Rule of 12 - no idea who originated this, but it's served me well for years. Here it is as it was sent to me: "between 8 and 12 weeks puppy should: Experienced 12 different surface: wood, woodchips, carpet tile, cement, linoleum, grass, wet grass, dirt, mud, puddles grates, uneven surfaces, on a table, on a chair, etc... Played with 12 different objects: fuzzy toys, big & small balls, hard toys, funny sounding toys, wooden items, paper or cartboard items, milk jugs, metal items, etc... Experienced 12 different locations: front yard (daily), other people's homes, school yard, lake, pond, river, boat, basement, elevator, car, moving car, garage, laundry room, kennel, vet hospital (just to say hi and visit, lots of cookies) grooming salon (just to say hi) etc... Met and played with 12 new people: (outside of family) include children, adults (male and female) elderly adults, people in wheelchairs, walkers people with canes, crutches, hats, sunglasses, etc... Exposed to 12 different noises: (ALWAYS keep positive and watch puppy's comfort level-we don't want the puppy scared) garage door opening, doorbell, children playing, babies screaming, big trucks, Harley motorcycles, skateboards, washing machine, shopping carts, power bost, clapping, pan dropping, vacuums, lawnmowers, etc... Exposed to 12 fast moving objects: (Don't allow to chase) skateboards, roller-blades, bikes, motorcycles, cars, people running, cats running, scooters, children running, squirrels, horses running, etc... Make sure all experiences are safe and positive for the puppy. Each encounter should include treats and lots of praise. Slow down and add distance if your puppy is scared! " Add to this list any thing or activity that you can. For me I'm also taking my pups with me to stock, and they learn about things like barns, tractors, chickens, hay balers etc. And then theirs basic training - sit, down, walking on leash. Oooooh, I've got puppy fever right. Can't have one, can't have one, can't have one.... Wow. I thought some of the service dog socialization lists I've seen were extensive. I think you win. I didn't think about Lowes and Home Depot. I guess they are pet-friendly--or at least pet-indifferent as long as the pup stays out of the way? With winter around the corner, it may be a little harder to find skate boards, people out walking, and such, but I'm looking forward to finding all sorts of things to expose him too. This is going to be fun! Thanks for reply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ooky Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 I LOVE the rule of 12s! It made so much sense to me and even though we sort of stretched ours out into 14-15 weeks, it WORKED. Odin is one of the most bombproof dogs I have ever known, although I'm sure his genetics deserve some credit there. You can really tell where our omissions were, too. We didn't ever get around to an elevator - Odin went on one for the first time a few months ago and was terrified! We didn't see any horses while he was in this stage - now he is finally getting better but he did not react well to horses at all when we started seeing them on the trail and on farms - he barked and carried on. Vacuum - we don't vacuum often because we have hardwood floors and sweep/clean with wood cloths instead. The first time I brought it out he was about 20 weeks, and it has taken a lot of training to get him to stop attacking the vacuum in an attempt to "herd" it (not really, but control it). My husband's guitar was at the practice space for a while after we got him. He is still afraid of the scary scary guitar. To different types of people I would also add different races of people. DH has seen several dogs when working at the shelter that were terrified of black and/or dark-skinned hispanic people because, he assumed, they simply never met any as puppies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenajo Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 Wow. I thought some of the service dog socialization lists I've seen were extensive. I think you win. I didn't think about Lowes and Home Depot. I guess they are pet-friendly--or at least pet-indifferent as long as the pup stays out of the way? With winter around the corner, it may be a little harder to find skate boards, people out walking, and such, but I'm looking forward to finding all sorts of things to expose him too. This is going to be fun! Thanks for reply. LOL...I overdo it by working collie standards. But I've had to backtrack - take a completely unsocialized year old dog that was on the edge of fear aggressive abouut it, and turn it into a dog I could work in public both happily and safely. I've also bought pups and young dogs out of barns that had never seen a human other than the person who fed them. Once you've been there, you don't want to go back! You will never get everything covered (eiyiyi, am I working with one now!). That's life and the reality of working with living beings. What you see is a trusting relationship, and a foundation of enough variety to start generalizing that "different" is nothing other than an opportunity to discover a new friend or activity. In this area Lowes and HD are known as dog friendly. Also Old Navy, Tractor Supply, the the vet supplies. If in doubt, ask. (and if they say no, you can still using the parking lot) A pleasent, clean puppy that's charming everyone from his shopping cart is rarely going to be asked to leave (and if you are, please do so promptly and with a smile). As long as the store does not sell food you can usually bring a pup in. I have raised a working pup that later became a service dog. It's amazing to see what doors a both genetics and early upbringing can do for a dog, and for the human too! Enjoy you pup (I think I have a fever, pup fever...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenajo Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 Yes, genetics do deserve credit, but only partial my older dogs grew up with me playing the piano, and the late Joey was conditioned to head for her bed and snooze the minute I started. 2 college degrees, 2 years on night shift, and many 60 hour work weeks later the piano is a foreign item to this generation of dogs. Rosie regards the "making of noise with the cabinet" with deep mistrust. Izzy does not understand it, or the limitations of no dogs on the bench if they can't sit still. I LOVE the rule of 12s! It made so much sense to me and even though we sort of stretched ours out into 14-15 weeks, it WORKED. Odin is one of the most bombproof dogs I have ever known, although I'm sure his genetics deserve some credit there. You can really tell where our omissions were, too. We didn't ever get around to an elevator - Odin went on one for the first time a few months ago and was terrified! We didn't see any horses while he was in this stage - now he is finally getting better but he did not react well to horses at all when we started seeing them on the trail and on farms - he barked and carried on. Vacuum - we don't vacuum often because we have hardwood floors and sweep/clean with wood cloths instead. The first time I brought it out he was about 20 weeks, and it has taken a lot of training to get him to stop attacking the vacuum in an attempt to "herd" it (not really, but control it). My husband's guitar was at the practice space for a while after we got him. He is still afraid of the scary scary guitar. To different types of people I would also add different races of people. DH has seen several dogs when working at the shelter that were terrified of black and/or dark-skinned hispanic people because, he assumed, they simply never met any as puppies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizmo Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 Another place you can take dogs is Tractor Supply Co. Around here when I go buy dog food, they always seem interested in how many dogs I have (and no, I wasn't buying lots of bags of food, haha) and what breed they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 I have always found Lowe's to be very dog-friendly. As Wendy said, you can put a mat in the cart, have a leash to avoid over-friendly (or nervous first-timers) from diving out, and make sure you have treats - and take everyone up on their offers to pet. I used to keep a mat in the old van just for Lowe's. Also pet shops like PetsMart (but you will find that there are dumb owners and clueless dogs in there, and a lot of corners that have obviously been peed on, so be alert), small pet supply stores (a favorite of mine), and any business that is amenable (where we get our cars serviced is fine about the dogs in the waiting room with me and even playing ball there, as long as I'm sensible - they even give them treats). If you have a university nearby, that can be a terrific place (and not half bad if you are a single guy as pups are real girl-magnets). Plus, it gives the pup a chance to be around crowds when classes change, and quiet times during classtime. Smaller, private (non-chain) businesses can be very pet-friendly and if you ask, you may be surprised that your pup/dog can come on in and enjoy some attention. But, for a pup, make sure he/she's voided well beforehand and you are prepared for any eventuality. Enjoy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejano Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 I know what you mean about raising them like a service dog. I socialize my puppies to that level too. It makes a nicer dog to live with imo, and for me if something happens to their herding career they've got the background to be prepared for a lot of other activities to keep them fit and happy. I don't like the sling (hope you are kidding!) because its not comfortable and the puppy doesn't really have to deal with the world at all. Slings encourage little dogs like that to either cower or snap at people imo. If you want a safer way (instead of walking on filthy floors) to do places like PetSmart/Lowes/Home Depot with a young puppy then put them in the shopping cart. Bring a pad so they aren't sitting on the wire and keep your leash short enough they can't do a dive at first. When I'm socializing several puppies at once it's easy to miss something if you aren't careful. I keep a log to check of things I want them to see/do. Form 8 weeks to 12 weeks I apply Ian Dunbar's rules that need to meet 100 different people of all shapes and sizes. When I say "meet" I meen have a positive interaction with - walk with them, be fed a treat, etc. Not just "hanging around" them. The hanging around people are just gravy I also apply the Puppy Rule of 12 - no idea who originated this, but it's served me well for years. Here it is as it was sent to me: "between 8 and 12 weeks puppy should: Experienced 12 different surface: wood, woodchips, carpet tile, cement, linoleum, grass, wet grass, dirt, mud, puddles grates, uneven surfaces, on a table, on a chair, etc... Played with 12 different objects: fuzzy toys, big & small balls, hard toys, funny sounding toys, wooden items, paper or cartboard items, milk jugs, metal items, etc... Experienced 12 different locations: front yard (daily), other people's homes, school yard, lake, pond, river, boat, basement, elevator, car, moving car, garage, laundry room, kennel, vet hospital (just to say hi and visit, lots of cookies) grooming salon (just to say hi) etc... Met and played with 12 new people: (outside of family) include children, adults (male and female) elderly adults, people in wheelchairs, walkers people with canes, crutches, hats, sunglasses, etc... Exposed to 12 different noises: (ALWAYS keep positive and watch puppy's comfort level-we don't want the puppy scared) garage door opening, doorbell, children playing, babies screaming, big trucks, Harley motorcycles, skateboards, washing machine, shopping carts, power bost, clapping, pan dropping, vacuums, lawnmowers, etc... Exposed to 12 fast moving objects: (Don't allow to chase) skateboards, roller-blades, bikes, motorcycles, cars, people running, cats running, scooters, children running, squirrels, horses running, etc... Make sure all experiences are safe and positive for the puppy. Each encounter should include treats and lots of praise. Slow down and add distance if your puppy is scared! " Add to this list any thing or activity that you can. For me I'm also taking my pups with me to stock, and they learn about things like barns, tractors, chickens, hay balers etc. And then theirs basic training - sit, down, walking on leash. Oooooh, I've got puppy fever right. Can't have one, can't have one, can't have one.... This is what we did with our pups....it was a great deal of work, but it paid off. The only person I haven't been able to find is someone in a wheel chair . I would add, elevators. Many places are dog friendly if you ask. The only elevator in town is in our local library, and we scouted the place first, asking permission and they were fine. I usually scout out the place first, before I bring the dog just to see what we're in for. Another great place to practice walking on a rainy day (or snow!) is our local greenhouse operation. They let me work around the aisles with the dogs. Liz Liz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gil Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 Piano got me thinking. Wasn't sure if Gil had heard the harp. He thought it was interesting from his crate He was in there to begin with, door open he could come out. Snap left the room as always. Then I quit to save both our ears. All this weather change I need to tune it. The twelves worked, He travels great, does elevators better than the older two. Jenny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizmo Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 Just thought of another place that you could bring a pup. Around here soccor is going on right now, and that is a good way to socialize a pup. If dogs are allowed to soccor/baseball/softball fields in your area, you can bring a pup there. I brought my then puppy to baseball and softball games when he was a pup and most people/kids were pretty level headed in how they acted around him. I'd check with your Parks and Rec. dep. first, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
border_collie_crazy Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 If you have a university nearby, that can be a terrific place (and not half bad if you are a single guy as pups are real girl-magnets). Plus, it gives the pup a chance to be around crowds when classes change, and quiet times during classtime. yup schools are a good one! I live accross the street from the high school I went too, with Happys aggression issues, to work with her I would take her to school on parnet teacher days, I would play with her by the front doors with all kinds of people carrying starnge things back and forth, lots of people would stop to meet her and we always happy to help me out with her fear aggression. another good place is grocery stores..while they cant go in the grocery store, if you hang out outside a large one you will have automatic doors, hundreds of people, shopping carts rolling past, people of all shapes, sizes and ages, people carrying all manners of strange items etc.. I use it as a training tool as well..for Electras CGN, I did almost all our training outside grocery stores..nodbody cares and the staff who come outside on their breaks are usually happy to help. I did all kinds ofthings like I would practice her stays under distarction by placing her in a stay on one side of an automatic door, I would drop her leash and stand on the other side, and she would have to stay put while doors opened, people milled past, and shopping carts past in front of her face. I tell ya, Electra had the best darn long stay in the test! the judge said she was the ONLY dog that did not get up or cry at all during the 3 minute stay with me out of sight, lol. I also used the grocery stores for Happy's fear aggression, it made a big difference in her comfort levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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