CaSea4Me Posted November 5, 2009 Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 Hello, I think this is my first post here. We got 2 siblings (brother & sister @ approx. 2 1/2 mos. when we got them) who are extremely attached to eachother. When we got them, they were very sick. It took some time before we were able get them healthy and spayed. I have started leash training finally! When we are out and about the nieghborhood, they are fearful to the point of peeing at the sight of new people. I'm running on, sorry. I need help in reducing that fear. Suggestions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildFlower Posted November 5, 2009 Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 Hello, This section is for questions about working stockdogs. Perhaps this would be better placed in the general section below. Welcome to the boards! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eileen Stein Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 I am moving this question to General Border Collie Discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geonni banner Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 Hello, I think this is my first post here. We got 2 siblings (brother & sister @ approx. 2 1/2 mos. when we got them) who are extremely attached to eachother. When we got them, they were very sick. It took some time before we were able get them healthy and spayed. I have started leash training finally! When we are out and about the nieghborhood, they are fearful to the point of peeing at the sight of new people. I'm running on, sorry. I need help in reducing that fear. Suggestions? I recommend Jean Donaldson's book the "Culture Clash." Also, "The Cautious Canine" by Patricia B. McConnell. A wealth info in both for what you're dealing with. Good luck with your girls! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diane allen Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 Both recommended books are great....in the meantime: basically, give 'em a chance! How old are they now? Having siblings is a bit hard (you can search for previous posts on this....) - if one is a bit more shy than the other, the second may pick up on that. Can you take them out singly sometimes? That MIGHT help. Also, you need to figure out what a trigger is - maybe it is a person 30' away; maybe it is a person 20' away; maybe it is a person with a hat on 10' away. Whatever it is - STOP before you hit that point; get the dog's attention and reward lavishly (like, string cheese, hot dogs, pieces of chicken - no milkbones at this time!)! Dog is a Very Good Dog when s/he does NOT react to anything going on around. That will build confidence that you, the pack leader, will never put them in harm's way. Also, pups go through various fear periods - when things that have never caused any reaction before suddenly DO. Maybe someone else can pipe in about when those are - but I think I remember one being around 8-9 months of age. And of course, if there are any puppy classes around, they might help too. Best of luck! diane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejano Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 Hello, I think this is my first post here. We got 2 siblings (brother & sister @ approx. 2 1/2 mos. when we got them) who are extremely attached to eachother. When we got them, they were very sick. It took some time before we were able get them healthy and spayed. I have started leash training finally! When we are out and about the nieghborhood, they are fearful to the point of peeing at the sight of new people. I'm running on, sorry. I need help in reducing that fear. Suggestions? We also have siblings, both brothers (don't ask, we admit we weren't in our right minds . They were well raised and very social, but still did the "stress" pee on occasion. We had success by first, seeing to it that they'd relieved themselves before we went into a social situation, taking them out one at a time and asking the people we met to absolutely ignore the pup -- hard to do, because they're so darn cute, but be very firm. We ignored the pup as well. Once the pup was ready, he asked for - and received attention. Try to keep the people calm, too....none of this screeching, "OH, you darling little puppy" like one friend of ours does and grabbed Brodie. He peed all over her shirt. She doesn't do that any more . The good news is that they do outgrow it. Ours are six months old now. Robin only tinkled a few times. Brodie kept it up for a couple of weeks then it faded away. The more you take them out, the more comfortable they feel and it just goes away on its own. When I took Robin on an elevator for the first time, I thought for sure he'd let go, but he was very good....headed for the first patch of grass at a gallop once we got outside the building. Harder to break will be their attachment to each other. It takes a great deal of effort to make sure each one gets a great deal of alone time with each of you and that they're swapped off between you so they don't transfer their attention to each other, to just one person. Obedience classes help, but take them one at a time. They shouldn't be enrolled in the same class. Liz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms.DaisyDuke Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 The good news is that they do outgrow it. Not to be a downer on the situation or negative in anyway, but to say this to someone with fearful pups could possibly set them up for failure. Sometimes they do not out grow it. Depending on their genetics, they may or may not have fear issues their entire life. My dog was not terribly fearful as a pup, she was more aloof to strangers and other dogs, it seemed like she would just rather not interact with them. It grew into fear because I did not know what I was seeing. Good thing for the OP, they have noticed these issues early and have a better chance at working their dogs through it before it's hardwired into them. The book suggestions were great ones, and I agree with Sue, if you can get them out once in a while alone, that may help a little. Puppy classes may also be a good place, but only if they can handle it. The key is to find out their triggers, or fears and keep them from the point of displaying fearful behaviours (like peeing, crouching down, tucking tail, ears back etc. while introducing the thing they are afraid of. A good book to use to figure out what kind of behaviours your dog is displaying is "On talking Terms with dogs" by Turid Rugaas. If you have to take a puppy class more than once before the dogs can function properly in them, don't sweat it! You have no idea how many classes I've taken (more than once) just to get my dog used to working around other dogs! There is also a GREAT yahoo group for shy dogs, http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/shy-k9s/ and this site is great as well, http://www.fearfuldogs.com/ the author of the site is a list member on that yahoo group. There are tons of great resources there! I have more to say, so I will try to get back either at lunch or after work. Good luck and welcome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejano Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 Not to be a downer on the situation or negative in anyway, but to say this to someone with fearful pups could possibly set them up for failure. Sometimes they do not out grow it. Depending on their genetics, they may or may not have fear issues their entire life. Agreed. Brodie is indeed more shy than Robin in new situations and is more of an alarmist when something new approaches. He needed a great more patience and gentle exposures while he gained confidence and he's still a bit shy in new situations because he's just like that. Both our pups were reacting "normally" -- that is, doing something that most pups do at a certain time in their development. The OP will get to know these pups and be able to measure their reactions as either within the realm of "normal", in which the submissive peeing is often outgrown with growing confidence and trust, or part of a larger problem. I would add that in my experience, taking them both out in public at once, either alone or with help, when this was going on was difficult. One would get fearful or alarmed by something and then other other would "catch it" and we'd be spending more time reassuring than we would be if we just took one at a time and the fear didn't "catch" from one to the other. Robin also plunged into puppy class with the happy abandon that characterizes him. Again, Brodie was more fearful. He learned that its okay to let a strange dog come within four feet of you. If the OP does go into obedience classes, my advice is to not let the trainer, especially if you draw one out of the deck like I did that doesn't understand the nuances of the breed, talk you into anything that you feel the pup isn't ready for, especially the melee of "puppy play." Be as vigilant and protective as if it were your child. Interesting that fear is connected to genetics...a battle of nature vs nurture? Liz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stacie R. Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 We also used Cautious Canine by Patricia McConnell to work with our overly anxious dog. She also has a blog that has some posts that can help as well (www.theotherendoftheleash.com). We worked through the book and also have had great sucess with positive reinforcement training (we use a clicker because she repsonds very well to it but it isn't the only way). I have also really had to re-train myself to know that I am my dog's best advocate. I know Daisy's limits better than others and it is my job to make sure she isn't pushed too far too fast or overstimulated to the point of shutting down. If that means I step in between her and a child that isn't listening when I say she isn't interested in being petted, or between her and another dog who isn't backing off when she displays fear signals, or remove her from a situation that is too much then so be it. Of course I'm always working towards her being comfortable enough to be in normal social settings but in the meantime I need to make sure I do what is best for her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMSBORDERCOLLIES Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 Hello, I think this is my first post here. We got 2 siblings (brother & sister @ approx. 2 1/2 mos. when we got them) who are extremely attached to eachother. When we got them, they were very sick. It took some time before we were able get them healthy and spayed. I have started leash training finally! When we are out and about the nieghborhood, they are fearful to the point of peeing at the sight of new people. I'm running on, sorry. I need help in reducing that fear. Suggestions? Even though this has been moved to General BC Discussion I will attempt to give you a helping hand here. Familiarization is the key to raising a pup to have confidence and be able to accept different things in his/her life. The more you can get the pup out to see these worldly things the better. If he is fearful of things he sees, that can be caused by numerous things, some environmental, others genetics. You can overcome most of these by being patient and understanding with the dog while he is growing up. Don't avoid conflict, deal with it. If the dog is fearful of other dogs or people then you need to get him out to see more of them and when the reaction to other dogs/people take place you must remain calm and attempt to calm the dog. When you are training a dog to lose his fears of other dogs, you don't take him right away to another dog and introduce him, you walk him by the other dogs on a leash and just keep him calm and slowly introduce him to his fears with you being calm and staying in control of the dog while this is taking place. You slowly get a little closer to the other dogs/people and calmly introduce them. You need to ensure that the other dogs are of a friendly nature as you don't want a fight on you hands right off the bat and you need to be sure that the people are of the same nature and know what they are doing also. If your dog is not calm enough for introduction then just keep proceeding with the familiarization until he is. If your dog is naturally (genetically) shy and fearful it will take a little longer but if he is a naturally confident dog, it won't take long at all. Go at the dogs pace with this with your expectations reasonable and all will come together in good time........Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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