Jump to content
BC Boards

sibling rivalry


Recommended Posts

A new beef in the freezer meant new beef bones for the dogs and Robin and Brodie at 6 and half months old suddenly became more serious about their possessions. Even after the bones were taken away, there was way too much posturing and growling in this house last night. I don't want to give the impression that there were major fights going on, because there weren't. In between these brief exchanges, they were getting along fine, playing together and resting together. But I do want to get a handle on this behavior before it starts. We knew there was a great deal more work to do raising same sex litter mates and we've come along fine so far, so I want to stay on the right path.

 

I can't make up my mind who starts it. Robin growls and Brodie curls his lip silently (he looks like a little vampire bat), so one would think it was Robin, but in truth, I think its Brodie trying to gain a leg up the ladder. Robin seems to be emerging as the dominant brother (everyone falls in line behind Ladybug). I was watching them this morning and he was running around the yard covering up everyone's pee with his own. On the other hand, Brodie has a very strong "eye" and when he wants something - a bone or a toy - he'll lie down and stare at the other dog until they give way or move away from him. So I'm thinking the chain is that Brodie is staring, Robin's growling and Brodie curls his lip.

 

I did some research last night and most sources agree that the owner needs to be assertive in breaking up the squabbles -- letting the dogs know that behavior isn't to be tolerated. Also, that the dominant dog's position should be acknowledged, which we do. Ladybug is the grand dame of the three and is treated as such. However, between the pups, how is the decision made? Is Robin already dominant, based on his marking behavior and his general confident attitude? Or is Brodie winning the title because he makes his brother nervous when he stares at him? Yet, Brodie seems to be more submissive and instead of barreling in and taking charge like Robin does, tends to wait and circle, looking for an opportunity. How do we acknowledge position when it is really a matter of guessing?

 

Suggestions?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't try to guess at the dogs' dominance hierarchy because you can do a ton of damage by accidentally "supporting" the wrong dog. Instead I spend my time and energy teaching all dogs to follow the same rules about behavior. In my household, older dogs are allowed to correct younger dogs who try to take possessions or do not respect their body space. They are NOT allowed to guard me, the cat, or just be witchy in general. All dogs have assigned eating spots and may not bother the other dogs while they are eating. All dogs must sit/stay before eating and must be quiet and calm while I prepare food bowls or they will be put in a down/stay for the remainder of prep time. Unwarranted snarking gets a verbal "that's enough" and if it happens again, a time out in a crate for the instigator.

 

We've had two more serious incidents between Maggie and Z, so for now they are separate when I am not home and I'm gradually adding resources back into the mix. Incident 1 was right after Kes came home in April so stress levels were high and Z tried to take Maggie's bone - she overreacted and I had to break it up. Incident 2 was last Wednesday and occurred because I was not paying attention to triggers: I allowed Maggie to watch me cook the hamburger for dog food and she was guarding the stove, I still allowed her to hang around while I put food stuff together and let it sit on the counter, I then removed her to show DH something and when she came back to the kitchen Z was in "her" spot by the stove = a one sided altercation I broke up. You can see in both situations that when triggers pile up it causes issues, so being aware of potential triggers for conflict can be VERY helpful in eliminating problems.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Rhea and Gunnar are littermates but not the same sex so not the exact same scenario but I'll still share. We raised them both to understand that there is 0 resource guarding, anyone growls at the other for a bone or toy or us and they get reprimanded and the toy or bone go away. They play/fought pretty regularly for the first year of their lives. It was always pretty even and we never let it get out of control. So the fighting (as long as its in play) I'd say its pretty normal and for the most part and you should let it happen. I think this is how they figure out who's top dog. Like MaggieDog said though, don't support one dog over the other, they have to figure it out on their own. If it is obviously resource guarding then yeah, nip it in the bud. I'd give them their bones under strict supervision and take them away as soon as they started guarding them and maybe do a time out or something. Good luck!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't try to guess at the dogs' dominance hierarchy because you can do a ton of damage by accidentally "supporting" the wrong dog. Instead I spend my time and energy teaching all dogs to follow the same rules about behavior.

 

I totally agree with Erin's and B-C Liz's advice and the above is a great quote to remember. Plus, "dominance" seems rather fluid at times with dogs where they will be dominant in one situation (toys) and submissive in others (resource guarding people). Besides, a true Alpha rarely sweats the small stuff. They can appear very tolerant or uncaring about things that alpha wannabes will frequently get into terrible fights over. Your guys are young, the same sex, and littermates to boot so you really, really want to be on top of the situation and from this post and others, that seems to be your goal.

 

Some dogs can work out a hierarchy that leads to years of happy and peaceful coexistence. Others only continually increase tension and instability in their little pack. So I've learned to take a zero tolerance approach to much in the way of them asserting dominance over each other. Like Erin, I allow older dogs to correct puppies if they can do so in a fair and safe manner. Otherwise, I set the rules and I do my level best to make sure all dogs understand that I am "Alpha" and I am not looking for anyone to assist me with those duties. I am not one to look at everything in terms of dominance, but I don't allow dogs to resource guard anything (me, toys, food, furniture, anything) nor do I allow them to try to take away a toy from each other or push someone from a resting spot. Treats only last nanoseconds so that isn't a concern.

 

I also second Erin's comments about being aware of triggers. Can't stress that too much. Really step in and take charge with those guys. Make the World Order very clear to your dogs now and pay close attention as they grow and mature over the next couple of years. Better to nip all jockeying for position now than spend the next 10 or 15 years dealing with two dogs who need to be monitored and can't be left alone together. That is what I have with Quinn and my Lhasa because I wasn't proactive enough when Quinn was a puppy. They don't like each other and probably never will. Knock wood, their squabbles have been marked by excellent bite inhibition but the Lhasa is still at risk of injury because of his significantly smaller size. I now need to be vigilant regarding their behaviors and interactions, can't leave them alone together and quite frankly it takes some of the fun out of living with dogs. Save yourself a lot of frustration and even heartbreak (if things turn truly ugly or dangerous). Declare yourself Supreme Dictator with no need for Vice Dictator and give your guys hard and fast rules to follow. In the long run, you will all be much happier.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks all for the good advice, especially about allowing the pups to decide dominance. Ladybug has been pretty good up until this point about breaking up their puppy wrestling if they got too rough and now she's bought out of it, which seems to indicate that its time for them who is first among them, so to speak.

 

I did notice this morning that Brodie's "eye" triggers a reaction in Robin. He lowers his head and adopts the classic herding pose as an invitation for Robin to run, which is fine. Their games are fluid for the most part... they'll run around the tree with one in the lead and coming out the other side, the other is in his place. It's the "eye" that is perhaps starting the chain of events, because when Brodie wants something, he simply lays down and stares until Robin feels uncomfortable and moves away. Perhaps now he's growling back as a way of saying, "not giving in Bub"

 

What kinds of corrections do you use?

 

Liz

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, since my dog pretty much barely tolerates any other dog in our house, I'm really good at management. She's dog reactive (but getting much better with work and age) and is usually quite short with the foster dogs. She's really good at removing herself from a situation if she's feeling crowded, but sometimes toys are the culprit so we have to intervene. The two things that have always worked the best for me are either clapping my hands/snapping fingers (depending on the intensity of the situation) or walking between them, splitting them up. Never yell. I've found it's totally not useful at all and more often than not, it helps escalate the situation. You just need something to snap them out of it so to speak. I don't recommend walking in between unknown dogs or if their reaction is unknown, especially if they are close to each other...It could risk someone getting bit. I do use it in close proximity if there is a toy on the floor because 1- I know my dog won't bite me and 2- It keeps my hands out of the mix incase someone should snap. I will also gently, with my leg move one dogs head (usually Daisy's) in the other direction to get them on the move, while using my foot to slide toy out of range or claim it as my own to pick up as soon as the situation has been diffused. I never do this if I don't know how the foster dog will react. Walking between dogs that are at a distance to split them up can be pretty effective. Use your body as a screen so that they can not see each other entirely and in your case, the one doing the staring should stop and look at you, then get him to do something more productive. Personally I wouldn't "correct" them for being dogs, I would just diffuse the situation. If you do it enough there is a good chance Brodie will stop trying to intimidate his brother for something he wants. Interrupt him then ask him to do something else.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What kinds of corrections do you use?

 

It varies from simple redirection, a verbal correction, downing the dog, sending the dog away (out of the room, to his crate). I will also praise and reward behavior I want. Positive reinforcement is extremely powerful. The earlier you intervene, the better. So better to correct a hard look than a snarl. And better still to step in before the hard look.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...