dominance gaurding and aggression

[ejano]

Liz,

I hope you're planning to neuter both dogs. Unfortunately, there will be a hierarchy, and Robin is making clear to Brodie that he's top dog (of the two of them). Less testosterone would probably be helpful in their future interactions. Littermates are often more problematic because they've had the opportunity to compete with one another from day one. I have littermates here (opposite genders) and they regularly get into scraps, especially when something exciting is going on. I don't think you're ever really going to be able to control that unless you keep them separated all the time. I can stop mine with a "Hey!" but it's still somewhat of a pain that they get into it. At least in my case, I know neither is really seeking dominance per se, since they are not the top dogs in this household. And when the day comes that one does have the opportunity to be top dog, it will likely be the female. But opposite-gender interactions I think are less problematic than same-gender ones when it comes to dominance issues.

 

While I don't tolerate a dog snapping at me (in answer to Mary's question), I also have a fear aggressive dog who *will* escalate if corrected with any sort of physical contact. I have been bitten by him, and believe me I decided that when it comes down to it, I need to "work smarter." I'm not above giving a dog a rap across the nose for inappropriate behavior, BUT at the same time, as suggested by Pammyd, I also make sure that there's not a valid reason for the growl (and my dogs all learn verbal corrections from day one, so I would start a correction verbally before escalating to more physical methods). For example, I have an older dog who is on her second recurrence of a mast cell tumor. She can no longer jump up in my van, so I have to lift her. If I inadvertently lift her in a way that puts pressure on her abdomen, she growls at me. I wouldn't dream of correcting her for that, because I suspect that the tumor has metastasized and by lifting her in that way I am causing her pain.

 

I realize you think you're dealing with plain adolescent brattiness, BUT in the case of Robin's aggression toward Brodie, I don't think punishment will necessarily work. As others have pointed out, you might simply turn him into a dog who does a stealth attack on his brother rather than giving you some warning. In this case, I think it's entirely possible that it's an issue you will have to manage their entire lives. You can't make two dogs like each other, even with a gazillion treats. And as people always warn, the problem is often bigger when the two dogs are littermates. And if your husband doesn't also manage them similarly, then whenever you're not around, he's essentially undoing any training you've done.

 

I tend to agree with Kristine on this subject.

 

J.

 

Hi JUlie,

they most definitely are going to be neutered...they're six months old this week, so could go at any time. They still scrap like puppies sometimes, but as you say a "HEY!" will stop it and I've found generally when let out together unless there's something really interesting going on in one corner of the yard, they head in different directions like most adult dogs will. And I most definitely agree that if two dogs don't like each other, they don't like each other period. People are allowed that privilege and dogs get it as well as far as I'm concerned.

 

You are also correct that male-female pairings are less problematic as are pairings that are not related, and believe me, I thought long and hard about letting the second pup into the house, even offering to give up taking Robin so Ken could have Brodie, because there was a real attraction there, and frankly at the time, I was so ill it didn't matter to me. The unfortunate sadness in this world is that when you are ready for a BC, there is one who has been waiting for you and there would have been one for me later. But Ken and others strongly felt I needed Robin and in the end they were right, so chaos ensued... We've worked hard to give them separate identities and separate experiences and it seems to be paying off for the most part. They'd much rather have something entertaining to do and human interaction rather then tussle with each other, which is a good thing and for the most part, they get along just fine. It's not that they don't like each other; they each just want to be liked best by the person they're receiving attention from and they need to learn to take turns.

 

It's been three days since I got home and everything seems much calmer now..- it's just a matter of who gets to occupy the space closest to me at the moment. They all pile on Ken without any problems. Honestly, I think it was just because I was away from home those few days. And yes, Robin will likely be top dog among the two of them, but hopefully, without as you say, reason to stealthily attack, he'll be a tolerant leader. Ken let them all charge into the bedroom this morning and they were jockeying for position and it went fine with no problems. Based on all of your comments, I've been doing some further reading and do plan to adjust my behavior when the three of them (because Ladybug is part of the problem) are interacting with me. My biggest sin, I think, was creating the bedroom as Robin's territory and the things in it as "his", so we're changing that.....except for bunny. He gets to keep bunny for his very own. He doesn't shred his stuffed toys but the others do so they're outlawed from possessing them. His lion recently disappeared in a puff of fluff and he's had that since he was eight weeks old.

 

Since having Robin charge through the gate and having to chase up the field to retrieve him from the pond, Ken is making a valiant attempt to reinforce manners -- he's realized now that letting them charge out the kitchen door in the morning means they'll charge through an open gate so he's taking the time to control the mad dash. Hopefully he'll start playing some games to reinforce recalls too because he's realized how much more easily the dogs come to me than him. Ladybug came to us pre-programmed so he thought these would learn by osmosis but it just doesn't work that way. He lets them jump all over him because he wears contractor clothes and what's a little more dirt? One never feels more loved than when greeted by a joyful pup - or three. , except when wearing nylons. He's just not monitoring waste baskets . The TV room looks like Times Square on New Year's day this morning and I know it was Brodie because I had Robin with me, then crated him and Ladybug is far too much a lady (as well as being eight years old) for that nonsense. Her thing is to knock over the kitchen waste basket if she's not been told "Be a good girl; we'll be back" when we leave the house. She's too aristocratic to eat anything out of it, but she does it over in a snit to let us know she was ignored.

 

I certainly endorse your point of view. Our late Scotty was fear aggressive with strangers, and we'd never think of punishing him in any way -- that's how he became fear aggressive in the firs place....the previous owners had used a shock collar to control his jumping and barking when guests came to the house. Nor would I ever correct a dog for reacting in pain. I hadn't even clipiped nail at that point. And Robin did receive several verbal warnings, which he ignored. He just plain got the notion that he didn't have to tolerate getting his nails clipped. If he had a problem or was in pain, he would have continued to object after being corrected, which he didn't. He sat there as good as gold and I"m sure from this point on, he will continue to do so. He's a smart dog and easily adjusts to what is expected of him. I am amazed at his responsiveness to training and his calm demeanor when out in the big world. Nothing seems to faze him -- traffic, odd bits of machinery like a skidsteer, strange people, other dogs, the elevator...well, he didn't much like the down trip, but he didn't cower in fear. He'll be fine on the next trip.

 

I wish you well with your older dog who is ill. It's a tough thing.

 

Liz

[LassieLover]

Just finished the monthly battle with nail trimming and flea treatment. I've been away for a few days and the pups get little discipline from "Mr Squeaky Toy" . Robin is trying to be top dog and has lately been showing signs of guarding me and just being generally snotty when Brodie approached. I scruffed him up by the neck in the air several times last week (not easy when he weighs nearly forty pounds now) and had thought he learned his lesson now but now today (my first day back home), he snapped when Brodie tried to approach me, for which he received a severe correction; then when I started to clip his nails, snapped at me for which he got a big whallup. He settled right down and I clipped the other three paws without a struggle. He could have been a poster child for good behavior as I finished his nails and groomed him, for which he was highly praised. I recognize that he's starting to test situations but how long am I going to have to come down so hard on him? I felt like an abusive parent, but I can't tolerate that kind of behavior.

 

Liz

We had a dog growing up that would do that too... Try looking at this article, I find it pretty helpful!

[ejano]

We had a dog growing up that would do that too... Try looking at this article, I find it pretty helpful!

 

Interesting articles...The grab the nose trick works well for discouraging puppy nips -- and licks . I tried that too....he was just being a delinquent that day, plain and simple.