Sue R Posted September 26, 2009 Report Share Posted September 26, 2009 If there wasn't a market, this sort of producer wouldn't exist or, at least, not for long. Education, education, education but no matter how much or how well you were to educate, there would still be some who chose pups from a source like this - either from selfish reasons or, at times as pointed out, from sympathetic reasons (as misguided in the long run as that might be). If ignorant and naive purchases could be eliminated through education, that would go a long way towards reducing the puppy mill/byb/pet shop industry. There would still be a market propelled by selfish reasons, but it would hopefull be much reduced. My hat's off to all who actively and financially help with rescue and getting dogs out of situations like these, and who do their best to educate the dog-owning or dog-purchasing public. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiegirl Posted September 26, 2009 Report Share Posted September 26, 2009 The pictures were no where near as heinous as others I have seen. The dogs were filthy, yes. Did the dogs look scared? Yes. Since we don't have smell ability when we look, I can't remark on that. But, I have seen dogs living in disgusting kennel situations, in far lower numbers, by self proclaimed breeders, and this gets ignored every day. Dogs living in pallet palaces- re-fabbed chicken coops, standing on wire. Heck, the person who developed this style is quite proud of it. I see dogs with feces stuck to their coats, I see completely unsocialized pups afraid of their own shadow. All of this I see with small time breeders. This is a great win for the HSUS to say they "rescued" these dogs, but I want to know where they are going, and if money is being donated for their welfare, I want to know if that actually happens. I would have felt 100% better about this seizure, had a 501-C Border Collie rescue come in, and affect the seizure. Either way, it is good for the dogs, to be out of there, but I still worry about their end points.... Maybe now this person's reputation with speak for itself, and the selling of pups will stop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tranquilis Posted September 26, 2009 Report Share Posted September 26, 2009 One quote says that he will be keeping "20-25" of the dogs he's "had for years". Wanna bet they're intact and might form the nucleus of a new breeding scheme? No bet. I like my money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aljones Posted September 27, 2009 Report Share Posted September 27, 2009 The pictures were no where near as heinous as others I have seen. The dogs were filthy, yes. Did the dogs look scared? Yes. Since we don't have smell ability when we look, I can't remark on that. I agree that the pictures I've seen posted are not the worst I've ever seen, in terms of the conditions of the kennels and the dogs. However, I have first-hand experience with this operation and can say that the conditions in the barn (which I haven't seen in public photos yet) far surpassed anything in the outdoor kennels. ETA: Tennesean story that describes the barn. I took a dog out of that barn last fall, and he smelled worse than any living creature I've ever encountered. Having grown up on a farm, I'm not very squeamish about animal smells, but this was almost beyond belief. I spent 3 hours washing and grooming him that night, and he still cleared the room when I carried him into the vet's office 12 hours later. It took months and several cleanings for my car to smell semi-normal again. But I, too, worry about where these dogs are ending up...and it seems difficult to find out that information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olivia Posted September 27, 2009 Report Share Posted September 27, 2009 I know everyone is worried about where the dogs are ending up, they are okay. All safe and sound. The HS that is working on the case isn't releasing a lot due to the fact that there is still legal stuff going on. ETA: check out the link in the post above. It tells exactly where the dogs are. Olivia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aljones Posted September 27, 2009 Report Share Posted September 27, 2009 Thanks, Olivia, for your information. I do understand the importance of not risking any part of the ongoing investigation by releasing too much information too soon. However, I think what is confusing is that the news stories don't match up with each other or with other sources. For example, I just found out through Facebook, of all places (and then confirmed it through Petfinder) that 14 or 15 of the seized surrendered dogs are at my local shelter, the Bowling Green-Warren County Humane Society, not, as the Tennessean article states "distributed to Border Collie rescue missions nationwide to await adoption." (Edit: I mis-typed: BGWCHS has dogs that are already available for adoption or rescue, not the seized dogs that are on a hold.) I love my hometown shelter, and the folks there work hard to place dogs, but the facility does have to euth for space virtually every month--and is certainly not a BC rescue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dal & Mad's Mom Posted September 27, 2009 Report Share Posted September 27, 2009 Thanks, Olivia, for your information. I do understand the importance of not risking any part of the ongoing investigation by releasing too much information too soon. However, I think what is confusing is that the news stories don't match up with each other or with other sources. For example, I just found out through Facebook, of all places (and then confirmed it through Petfinder) that 14 or 15 of the seized dogs are at my local shelter, the Bowling Green-Warren County Humane Society, not, as the Tennessean article states "distributed to Border Collie rescue missions nationwide to await adoption." I love my hometown shelter, and the folks there work hard to place dogs, but the facility does have to euth for space virtually every month--and is certainly not a BC rescue. This was my biggest concern is that shelters would deem them unadoptable because they woudnt be able to give them time or space to decompress. We have offered a number of spaces for the bowling green dogs and will help as much as we can to assist with the other dogs we take to keep the border collies genuinely safe. We had 17 adoptions last week alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaryP Posted September 27, 2009 Report Share Posted September 27, 2009 Thanks, Olivia, for your information. I do understand the importance of not risking any part of the ongoing investigation by releasing too much information too soon. However, I think what is confusing is that the news stories don't match up with each other or with other sources. For example, I just found out through Facebook, of all places (and then confirmed it through Petfinder) that 14 or 15 of the seized dogs are at my local shelter, the Bowling Green-Warren County Humane Society, not, as the Tennessean article states "distributed to Border Collie rescue missions nationwide to await adoption." I love my hometown shelter, and the folks there work hard to place dogs, but the facility does have to euth for space virtually every month--and is certainly not a BC rescue. Angie, they are only there temporarily because they needed to get them out of the small, county shelter in TN. As Olivia said, there is nothing to worry about and none of these dogs are in danger of being euth'd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aljones Posted September 27, 2009 Report Share Posted September 27, 2009 Thanks for the additional information, Mary. I did not mean to imply that any of the Swafford dogs at BGWCHS were in danger of being euthed. I was just trying to make the point that people's concern (including mine) could be the result of confusing and conflicting information being circulated about what is happening with them. Also, I just fixed an error in my earlier post: the BGWCHS dogs are not the seized dogs (who are waiting out the legal process in TN shelter) but the surrendered dogs (who are available immediately for rescue or adoption). So they are not just being held temporarily but are actually being placed from BGWCHS. I apologize for my mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alchemist Posted September 27, 2009 Report Share Posted September 27, 2009 If you go to the website for Swafford's "rescue" operation http://www.bordercollierescueofmiddletn.org/ and scroll down, you see a Petco logo and a statement that you should "order your pet supplies from Petco to help support BCRMT". Does Petco really support his operation? - Lynn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katelynn & Gang Posted September 27, 2009 Report Share Posted September 27, 2009 Here they are. Look at their condition. Fucker. http://www.petfinder.com/shelterSearch/she...iew=1&sort= Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSmitty Posted September 27, 2009 Report Share Posted September 27, 2009 Heartbreaking. Poor things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aljones Posted September 27, 2009 Report Share Posted September 27, 2009 Yes, the 15 that are at my local shelter look very much in the same shape our Ody was when he came out of that barn. I started a thread for those dogs on the rescue boards, so I'll copy that info over here in a new thread (to save anyone the work of re-coding everything). I'll put it in the "Dogs in Shelters" subforum since that seems most appropriate, and I'll put a link here when I get done. ETA: here's the new thread for the 15 dogs available at BGWCHS: Swafford's surrendered dogs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katelynn & Gang Posted September 27, 2009 Report Share Posted September 27, 2009 I love how even the shelter knows enough to call it a mill but the media is stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OurBoys Posted September 27, 2009 Report Share Posted September 27, 2009 I agree that the pictures I've seen posted are not the worst I've ever seen, in terms of the conditions of the kennels and the dogs. However, I have first-hand experience with this operation and can say that the conditions in the barn (which I haven't seen in public photos yet) far surpassed anything in the outdoor kennels. Here you go, Angie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aljones Posted September 27, 2009 Report Share Posted September 27, 2009 Thanks, Brenda. I think I'll go take another shower now...maybe in the shower we had to upgrade with a detachable shower head because of the frequent baths we had to give Ody to get the stench off of him enough to let him move from the garage to the house. I washed that poor dog more in his first month here than I've bathed other dogs in their entire lives. But you can see why, given these conditions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiegirl Posted September 27, 2009 Report Share Posted September 27, 2009 I have a very soft spot for the oldsters there. Does old Grady have a good chance for being adopted? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aljones Posted September 27, 2009 Report Share Posted September 27, 2009 I know Lorri (the shelter director) also has a soft spot for the oldsters (she over-rode the vet's euth recommendation on my Johnson, in fact). But I'd be happy to visit Grady and learn more about him if you'd like. (Just fyi, the shelter is gearing up for its big annual Adopt-a-Thon on Tuesday, so it may take a little longer than usual to get responses from the folks there at the moment.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NRhodes Posted September 27, 2009 Report Share Posted September 27, 2009 Wow, poor dogs, they look in sorry shape :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted September 27, 2009 Report Share Posted September 27, 2009 If you go to the website for Swafford's "rescue" operation http://www.bordercollierescueofmiddletn.org/ and scroll down, you see a Petco logo and a statement that you should "order your pet supplies from Petco to help support BCRMT". Does Petco really support his operation? - Lynn I know that, in our area, the Petco in the next county over supported a "rescue" in my county by giving it room on adoption days, and who knows what other support. That "rescue" was subsequently revealed to be a fraud, similar to Swafford's, as it took in all sorts of surrendered animals, apparently bred some of them, and then sold ("adoption fee") the pups that were often ill or parasite-ridden at the Petco. That place was closed and the animals seized, charges were filed, but nothing really ever happened. So, Petco may be misguided in their generosity or simply ignorant. But you wonder if it happens at multiple Petcos. Of course, people like Swafford can be slick, and I suppose I should not pass judgement on Petco because folks there may have been kind-hearted and trying to help the animals. By the way, when the seizure came about, Petco donated little of value if anything to the shelter that was swamped with dogs (and other animals). But the PetsMart up in PA donated a horse trailer load of crates, food, and other useful supplies. I don't go to Petco even to socialize dogs since then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShoresDog Posted September 27, 2009 Report Share Posted September 27, 2009 Arggh, those poor dogs. It's heartbreaking, really, what some people will sink to. I'll second Sue's comments about PetSmart -- our local PetSmarts in Southern California are very rescue-savvy, and I greatly prefer them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alchemist Posted September 27, 2009 Report Share Posted September 27, 2009 Thanks to Sue and to ShoresDog for their input about PETCO vs PetSmart. Both are located close to me. I wasn't aware of these differences in corporate culture; I'd naively believed that they were both equally rescue-savvy. I guess I can vote with my wallet! I did poke around on PETCO's website. They list operations they support in Tennessee, and this wasn't one of them. Nevertheless, I have just sent them the following email: Is PETCO Foundation supporting this puppy mill? The website for Border Collie Rescue of Middle Tennessee (http://www.bordercollierescueofmiddletn.org/) claims support from PETCO. I don't know whether their claim is true, but this is not the sort of operation with which you wish to be associated. They were recently raided and dogs seized under appalling conditions. See: http://www.tennessean.com/article/20090925...ppy+mill+busted for coverage. I support businesses that provide aid to homeless animals. I will not support businesses that donate to puppy mills. I am giving you the benefit of the doubt at present because this organization is not listed on your website as being one that you support in Tennessee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierMike Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 Our local shelter, no kill, the same place that I actually got my pup Dave from, has just brought in 25 of these dogs on Sunday that were seized from this place. They all go to fosters right away and these people are great at what they do. I know I shouldn't, but I'll go there and look them over... Probably, be here in the coming weeks with questions regarding how these types of dogs fit into a home and 3 bc's as opposed to 2. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Billadeau Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 The Humane Society of the United States Assists in Rescue of Dogs from Alleged Tennessee Puppy Mill The property owner surrendered 68 of the dogs who The HSUS will transport to rescue groups and humane societies throughout the region, where they will be made available for adoption. The sheriff's department seized another 40 who will be housed with local organizations pending a possible criminal investigation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tranquilis Posted September 28, 2009 Report Share Posted September 28, 2009 The Humane Society of the United States Assists in Rescue of Dogs from Alleged Tennessee Puppy Mill Yeah, I riased my eyebrows at that, too. First time I've ever heard of them actually getting down in the trenches and doing real good deeds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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