Up up and away!!!

[ejano]

Okay, we've got about a quarter acre fenced in and Saturday as I was chasing down Brodie to halt those birdbrained games they're playing and Robin was either chasing a bird or didn't want to put up with my yelling and over the fence he went! All that work to keep him safe and he cleared six feet of wire like it was nothing! He barreled up the hill so fast, I figured the best thing to do was get in the car and drive around the hill and pick him up on the other side, but then he remembered THE POND and took a sharp right, dashed down hill and launched himself with a big kersplash. As soon as he hit the water, I knew I had him and he did come when I called at that point, but will he ever respect the fence again? Not to mention me??? I'm so afraid I'm going to lose him but I don't want him to end up a dummy that can't be trusted off lead? When I put him on the long line and let it trail behind him, he's the best dog in the world.

 

This is really the difference between obedience and an obedient dog. He'll come all day when I have him on leash, or under control in the yard...but out in the real world, not a chance. How do I teach him respect for me off lead? I know you all mentioned that book "Control Unleashed", and I've ordered a copy but could I have some tips to get started with?

 

PS -- all that yelling did have one good reaction, neither one of them have chased a bird flying across the sky since.

 

Liz

[SS Cressa]

Sorry I can't be of more help. I don't have a fence in yard. I worked on recalls since Cressa and Troy were 7 weeks old. Troy was on the long line from 7weeks to 7 months. I always train with a buddy system. We pratice recalls with me and my sister. We would use treats and toys to reward them with. One person would call and take off running in one direction. Once the dog reach them they got a treat or a toy thrown. Then the other person would call and run the other directions. I did A LOT of recall training when they were babys.

 

I also found once you start having a pack -more then one dog- it seem that "comes one come all" start works really well! They stick together pretty well and are easy to call back in. I also "train" recall or if you want to call it train but I work with all the dogs to come even if they are in a pack to come seperate or together depends on the command.

 

LOL But WOW 6 foot fence!!! Thats nice are you going to do agility with him? Troy use to jump our 5ft bookself since it was next to our stairs he use to jump it to come up easier I guess?!

[Ooky]

He'll come all day when I have him on leash, or under control in the yard...but out in the real world, not a chance. How do I teach him respect for me off lead?

 

Usual disclaimers about my lack of experience apply -

 

But Odin's not the only dog I've taught reliable off-leash behavior to. If I had to boil it down...

 

1) Relationship/bond building, which I'm sure you do a lot of anyway. Keep at it. In my mind this applies to all aspects of life withe the dog. Be randomly fun with your pup, inside and out, and train in several short sessions throughout the day. I've also tied Odin to me for periods so he had no choice but to stay with me even if I wasn't paying attention.

 

2) Expect more from you dog only when he has proven he can handle whatever step you're at right then. So, with your example if I could only trust Robin in the yard on a long line, that would be what we did for a few weeks now while we continued working on #s 1 and 3. If he began behaving in such a way that *I* could relax, then the line would come off in the yard first and we'd work from there. BTW my family's husky Calvin was an occasional 6-ft fence jumper too and WOW is something like that beautiful to see an animal do, even though it is not what is supposed to happen.

 

3) Lots of recall training. Odin and I still practice formal recalls in many different settings/distances/activities 5 times a day, spread throughout the day, and I've considered him very solid for months now. He knows that a blown off recall gets a verbal correction, and a good recall always gets praise. We haven't used treats other than praise for these practice recalls for some time, and I never used treats with Calvin, but I don't think they hurt early recall training with Odin any. Before you take off the long line out in the real world, make sure the recall's very good every place you try it when the line is on.

 

4) Keep on top of the situation - watch out for excitement level and head things off at the pass! Mistakes might happen anyway - at first test them in only safe places. Even in your yard with the long line off -- any behavior where he looked like he was even considering jumping the fence, like looking over it fixedly, hindquarter clench in direction of fence etc, would get a verbal correction, then the "stay with me" command. I think off-leash hiking trails are awesome for early off-property practice because you are usually not near roads, although watch out for wildlife triggers.

 

Just my 0.02, but if I can be a bad influence for a sec (hopefully he's not *fully* literate yet), nice jump Robin!! And how freakin hilarious that the big plan was apparently to cannonball into the pond. What a personality

[ejano]

LOL But WOW 6 foot fence!!! Thats nice are you going to do agility with him? Troy use to jump our 5ft bookself since it was next to our stairs he use to jump it to come up easier I guess?!

 

Yeah, its impressive but I feel so vulnerable now. We're just lucky he went straight into the back field and didn't veer around toward the road. I've been working with him on recalls in the field with the long line and its not very effective yet. He's as solid as they come on recalls in controlled situations...we worked with leash, long lead, clicker, and then off leash - its just in new situations, he loses his tiny little brain....

 

I'll keep training...and training and training.

[ejano]

Usual disclaimers about my lack of experience apply -

 

But Odin's not the only dog I've taught reliable off-leash behavior to. If I had to boil it down...

 

1) Relationship/bond building, which I'm sure you do a lot of anyway. Keep at it. In my mind this applies to all aspects of life withe the dog. Be randomly fun with your pup, inside and out, and train in several short sessions throughout the day. I've also tied Odin to me for periods so he had no choice but to stay with me even if I wasn't paying attention.

 

2) Expect more from you dog only when he has proven he can handle whatever step you're at right then. So, with your example if I could only trust Robin in the yard on a long line, that would be what we did for a few weeks now while we continued working on #s 1 and 3. If he began behaving in such a way that *I* could relax, then the line would come off in the yard first and we'd work from there. BTW my family's husky Calvin was an occasional 6-ft fence jumper too and WOW is something like that beautiful to see an animal do, even though it is not what is supposed to happen.

 

3) Lots of recall training. Odin and I still practice formal recalls in many different settings/distances/activities 5 times a day, spread throughout the day, and I've considered him very solid for months now. He knows that a blown off recall gets a verbal correction, and a good recall always gets praise. We haven't used treats other than praise for these practice recalls for some time, and I never used treats with Calvin, but I don't think they hurt early recall training with Odin any. Before you take off the long line out in the real world, make sure the recall's very good every place you try it when the line is on.

 

4) Keep on top of the situation - watch out for excitement level and head things off at the pass! Mistakes might happen anyway - at first test them in only safe places. Even in your yard with the long line off -- any behavior where he looked like he was even considering jumping the fence, like looking over it fixedly, hindquarter clench in direction of fence etc, would get a verbal correction, then the "stay with me" command. I think off-leash hiking trails are awesome for early off-property practice because you are usually not near roads, although watch out for wildlife triggers.

 

Just my 0.02, but if I can be a bad influence for a sec (hopefully he's not *fully* literate yet), nice jump Robin!! And how freakin hilarious that the big plan was apparently to cannonball into the pond. What a personality

 

Thanks for all of the good advice. I will not get discouraged and will keep working with him and I will pass on your praises at an appropriate moment . He does love the water and already its getting too chilly to let him swim.

 

Here he is in August, doing a great cannonball!

[mbc1963]

No advice, but what a disappointment after all that work!

 

My neighbhor has a digger-dog: beagle/JRT. They put up a fence around their yard, and the dog just dug underneath, no matter what they did. So, the woman spent one whole weekend adding the invisible electric wire right under the physical fence, turned it on, and PRESTO! Lily went right through the shock, seemingly indifferent. ::Sigh::

 

It took a long time and a lot of reinforcement with brick at the base of the fence, but they finally seem to have her contained now. Don't know what you do with a dog who can jump 6'. Good luck!

[ejano]

No advice, but what a disappointment after all that work!

 

My neighbhor has a digger-dog: beagle/JRT. They put up a fence around their yard, and the dog just dug underneath, no matter what they did. So, the woman spent one whole weekend adding the invisible electric wire right under the physical fence, turned it on, and PRESTO! Lily went right through the shock, seemingly indifferent. ::Sigh::

 

It took a long time and a lot of reinforcement with brick at the base of the fence, but they finally seem to have her contained now. Don't know what you do with a dog who can jump 6'. Good luck!

 

Beagles are tough to contain, for sure. And once they've gone through the electric fence they're not all that eager to come back because crossing it again means another shock. Hopefully Robin can be trained to continue to respect the fence as a boundary and trained out of responding to stimuli that might make him want to "go over the wall" so to speak. It just scared me so much because this is exactly how we lost my dear Scotty -- he came to us as a rescue and was in the squirrel chasing business and one day instead of following Ladybug's lead, (we didn't have a fence at the time), he went the opposite way in the woods and popped out in the road where he dived at a car. I don't ever want to relive that day.

 

Thanks again, everyone...I'll put your tips into action and I've also booked some time with a sheep dog trainer to teach me how to do off lead training. That should help a great deal.

 

Liz

[nancy in AZ]

One of the local AC facilities has a play yard and it was discovered that one of the dogs in residence could jump the 6 foot fence. So a group of volunteers assembled a mechanism to deter jumpers. (if I can get someone to take a photo and forward it I'll post it here). It was really very easy. They took a length of cable the size of the fence and strung it through several lengths of pvc pipe. Then they attached the lengths of pvc pipe onto two posts at the top of either end of the fence and angled the posts inward (picture wire fencing at a prison, the way it creates an overhang) Voila, problem solved. Of course, this could be quite a project if you have a very large fenced area.

 

I will say that once they know they can jump the fence, that's pretty much it unless you can change their perception of their ability to do it. Good luck!

[ejano]

One of the local AC facilities has a play yard and it was discovered that one of the dogs in residence could jump the 6 foot fence. So a group of volunteers assembled a mechanism to deter jumpers. (if I can get someone to take a photo and forward it I'll post it here). It was really very easy. They took a length of cable the size of the fence and strung it through several lengths of pvc pipe. Then they attached the lengths of pvc pipe onto two posts at the top of either end of the fence and angled the posts inward (picture wire fencing at a prison, the way it creates an overhang) Voila, problem solved. Of course, this could be quite a project if you have a very large fenced area.

 

I will say that once they know they can jump the fence, that's pretty much it unless you can change their perception of their ability to do it. Good luck!

 

I'd like to see a picture of that - I'm also following the "what would you do conversation" ---- they've wandered into a discussion about agility dogs and their cost...wonder how much I'd get for a dog that jumps six feet.

 

Seriously, I love the little mischief maker and wouldn't trade him for the world. We'll do whatever we need to to keep him safe. I suspect it was either my yelling and/or the bird in flight so the perfect storm might not happen again if we can get rid of the reaction to the stimuli.

 

Funny addendum -- my husband's niece is into Newfoundlands and also a has a fenced in play area though I'm not sure how high it is and she's got one that is a "jumper", though how a Newfie could get up that much steam is beyond me (I love them, don't get me wrong - I just figured they went through things rather than over top of them.) One night her brother was coming home late and saw "Jumper" along the edge of the road and stopped his truck, ready to get out and get her....turned out it was a black bear!

[desertranger]

Boundary training, every inch of it. I've done it for a lot of dogs and it takes a lot of time but it works. Boundary trained over a 1/4 miles of split rail fence once. Took a couple o fmonths but in the end the dogs remained inside. The only other alternative is a radio fence.

[herdcentral]

Yes I can sympathise. I had a young athletic ACD that dug under the fence, or would jump over a 6 ft fence. Didnt matter how much I exercised her or spent time with her she was determined to get out of the backyard when I was away and sit on my front doorstep to wait for me. She never budged from the doorstep. She never tried to get out when I was home.

 

I left her in kennels once and the man told me he had let her out in the exercise yard and when he came to put her back in her kennel he found her at the top of a 12 ft high cyclone fence about to launch herself over the top and make a break for freedom. I always had to warn the kennel owners when I left her and was always slightly worried the whole time I was away. One kennel owner had a series of exercise paddocks and she always reserved the internal ones for escape artists.

 

I ended up building an enclosed dog run for her when I was away from my property. None of my other dogs ever tried to follow her. ACDS are amongst the most determined and loyal creatures on earth I have decided.

[bcnewe2]

He does love the water and already its getting too chilly to let him swim.

 

I know this is off topic but where do you live that it's getting to cold to let him swim? My dogs swim in the dead of winter. I only worry if there's ice on a pond and I think they might break through and not be albe to get back out. I think they're polar bears in little dog suites! As long as they can run around after getting wet in the cold I don't worry to much.

 

Recall is something that for us has to have a bit of respect attached to it. All my dogs come when I call cause they know it's the only option. Keep working on it and you'll/he'll get it.

I have had runners before. They weren't fence jumpers or diggers, but dogs that would just go away if given the chance. I don't think they were leaving me but going on walkabouts that were directed by them. They were my biggest training nightmare.

Good luck...I'd be totally bumming if I had just finished a 6 foot fence and they hopped over it. My dogs must be lazy. I have to tell them to go under a gate if I want them too. Otherwise they stand there waiting for me to open the gate, no matter how high the gate is off the ground, they stand there looking at me like "hurry up lady, open the gate"

I know some teach a dog to go over a fence. I just don't have that type of dogs. but if I say "under" they will look till they fine a way to go under.

Gotta love the little buggers.

[ejano]

I know this is off topic but where do you live that it's getting to cold to let him swim? My dogs swim in the dead of winter. I only worry if there's ice on a pond and I think they might break through and not be albe to get back out. I think they're polar bears in little dog suites! As long as they can run around after getting wet in the cold I don't worry to much.

 

Recall is something that for us has to have a bit of respect attached to it. All my dogs come when I call cause they know it's the only option. Keep working on it and you'll/he'll get it.

I have had runners before. They weren't fence jumpers or diggers, but dogs that would just go away if given the chance. I don't think they were leaving me but going on walkabouts that were directed by them. They were my biggest training nightmare.

Good luck...I'd be totally bumming if I had just finished a 6 foot fence and they hopped over it. My dogs must be lazy. I have to tell them to go under a gate if I want them too. Otherwise they stand there waiting for me to open the gate, no matter how high the gate is off the ground, they stand there looking at me like "hurry up lady, open the gate"

I know some teach a dog to go over a fence. I just don't have that type of dogs. but if I say "under" they will look till they fine a way to go under.

Gotta love the little buggers.

 

I live in the Northeast, and the leaves are starting to turn...I guess I figure because the water is too cold for me, its too cold for Robin...he would disagree, I'm sure - and I'm a bit worried about him attacking the water when it does ice over....which leads back to the need for a solid recall, as you say.

 

I hope Robin isn't going to be one of those "give me three feet toward the door" dogs -- Scotty was, and as you say, a nightmare...he understood but really just paid lip service to boundary training and then faded away the moment you took your eye off him. I'd see him lingering at the edge of the woods, waiting for me to turn my attention away from him...He'd come right back when called but he was always pushing the edge and it got him in the end. I wonder, is it a male dog thing to wander -- even if neutered?

 

 

Robin has aspired to heights right from the start. He began by standing on the footstool on the back porch then proceeded to the top of the picnic table...I never expected a dog staring back at me through the kitchen window or to see him at about four months, leap up about four feet to grab the highest part of a rope hanging from a pole, ignoring the frisbee dangling within easy reach about a foot off the ground... In fact, he seems to be adding a foot to his personal best for each month of age...hopefully he'll quit now

 

 

 

 

Liz

[bcnewe2]

I hope Robin isn't going to be one of those "give me three feet toward the door" dogs -- Scotty was, and as you say, a nightmare...he understood but really just paid lip service to boundary training and then faded away the moment you took your eye off him. I'd see him lingering at the edge of the woods, waiting for me to turn my attention away from him...He'd come right back when called but he was always pushing the edge and it got him in the end. I wonder, is it a male dog thing to wander -- even if neutered?

 

I don't think it's gender specfic. The 2 roamers I had were girls. Both fixed. One at an early age and one way late after several litters (not my dog when bred)

I just think it's a personality trait. I like your description of fading away, that's exactly what they did. Although one would get the "look" then glance around to see who was watching and judge if she could make the get away and then just go.

She wouldn't come right back and her recall on stock or around strangers/distractions was great except for those times, but after an hour or so of exploring she'd show up right where she took off. Sometimes I wondered if she was an only dog she might have been better. Like somehow I didn't bond with her enough.

My dogs now come when called and have no thoughts of not coming. I swear I didn't raise them differently.

I noticed one of my LGD pups who as a tiny tot loved to be on high places can scale anything. I haven't seen her in the act so not sure if she's jumping or climbing but she goes no where once out. Now her bro is another story. He isn't a fence jumper or digger so he's easily contained but if let out, or he gets out, I'm always having to collect him from the gas well pad down the road, where there are tons of workers to get love from. His sister goes with him but she NEVER leaves without him.

Again...personality is my bet.

I hope Robin figures out that climbing a fence is ok but leaving the area is not.

Good luck!

BTW....I say let him swim....it's not iced over yet. He wears his coat even while swimming!