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So I'm talking with someone on another board that says border collies (and other herders) should be kept outside because they like it better. This is the reasoning:

 

Kelpies, Border Collies, Blue Heelers, the majority of herders are very independant and dont thrive on human company as much as a lot of other breeds.

 

Honestly I don't care if you keep outdoor dogs right (I've had them before) but this seems bogus to me. BCs are one of the most human oriented breeds I've been around. Am I missing something?

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Oh, puh-leeze. Border Collies don't thrive on human company? This person is buying into some strange breed misconceptions.

 

I can't even leave my dogs alone outside to occupy themselves. Next thing I know, I look out the window and they're staring at the back door waiting for me (or DH) to come out, heaven forbid they have to sleep out there. :rolleyes: They would be miserable staying out there all the time, knowing we were inside. I'm not saying that working dogs who live in kennels outside don't do just fine, but I feel pretty confident in saying that most Border Collies would rather be inside with their people.

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I would agree with you, Laurelin, that BCs are very human orientated. Daisy tends to ignore other dogs and perfers to interact with me.

 

I do know that Daisy loves spending time outside and sometimes when I am ready to go in she looks at me as if to say, "do we have too?" But again, I am outside with her.

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Herding breeds were generally developed to work with a human shepherd (cowherd, goatherd, etc.) in a partnership. For that reason alone, they are very oriented *toward* their humans. Dogs who wouldn't work with/relate to their humans certainly wouldn't have been allowed to continue to add their genetics to the breed. I think the person posting that information is confusing *independent thinking* with complete independence, and the two are vastly different. A dog who isn't interested in working with and pleasing its human counterpart in the care and management of livestock is next to useless. Many such dogs live outdoors (or out in the barn perhaps) not because they *need their independence* but because circumstances dictated it, and after a hard day's work, they really just needed a warm place to sleep. It has nothing to do with them not needing or wanting to be with humans.

 

J.

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Being an independent thinker that is able to work with handler to find solutions is not the same as being independent of human interaction. Speaking in general terms, I'd be hard pressed to think of a breed that does not enjoy and solicit human interaction because that is what thousands of years of genetics compels them to do.

 

As was pointed out, circumstances sometimes dictate a working dog be housed in a kennel or a barn, but that doesn't mean that they'd rather not be sleeping on a sofa :rolleyes: with their handler.

 

Liz

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I think many of our dogs, if they could have their way, on a clear cool night would have us outdoors with them, sleeping under the stars, like a shepherd and sheepdog pair. But since none of us are going to be sleeping outside, and since thunderclouds very often cover those stars, for dogs who are aware of the pleasures of nightly petting and human company under a roof between walls with central air, they want to follow us indoors!

 

Vala came to us with no experience of having ever been indoors, obviously. She was afraid of manmade floor textures, had to be pulled the first time into the house, and she had the parasites to prove she'd been an outside dog all her life. Now if I let her outside to go potty without going with her, she does so, and then sits on the back step, ignoring the fenced in backyard filled with squirrels and birds and plants, waiting for me to let her back in. I don't think she misses it out there.

 

I think the truth is, dogs habituate. Wherever you start them sleeping when you bring them to the new environment of your home, that's where they're going to want to sleep because that's where they'll feel safe. And if you want a strong bond, and you aren't going to work the dog 6-8 hours during the day (another, perhaps even more successful way to get that kind of bond), I understand it's good to let the dog sleep with you in a kennel or on the floor in your bedroom (or the bed). So whatever, to the person with the big misunderstanding. Vala would be traumatized if we put her out in the yard!

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Kipp has an outdoor kennel where he spends his time when I'm not home. He is inside when I'm around and at night. Every single time I head back in from doing something outdoors he runs to the porch and cocks his head almost sideways tail a waggin' with a look asking "please, please, please can I go in the house this time?"

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The person/s making that comment probably is doing so by having a little information and building on it with their own conclusions. While it may be true that sheperds of old may have lived 24/7 with their dogs, somewhere along the line they became kenneled dogs. During the 1800's I believe this was quite common with people that had hunting dogs. It, somewhere along the lines, also became the norm for the working breeds. Most of the trialers and workers that I have come in contact with, kennel their dogs. The dogs are let out for work or excercise, but otherwise left in the kennels. They became tools that had a job and while they were thought well of, perhaps even loved, they wanted to make sure that in the dogs mind, nothing else mattered but the work. When I first got Jackson and came to these boards, I believe that was one of the first questions I asked, "Was it neccesary to keep Jackson kennenled to make him a good sheepdog?", because that's what I had been told. That and that playing with toys and such would take their "drive" away from herding. It is surprising how many really believe this. However, if any of these working dogs retire and are put in "pet" homes, few do not happily and readily adapt to living in a house. And for the record, Jackson has never confused "working" with "playing". And, as a test at my trainers, while Jackson was in the pen with the sheep, he completely and utterly ignored his ball. All he concentrated on was the sheep. My trainer was quite surprised. If she had ever seen the amount of time Jackson has stared at a ball waiting for me to throw it at home, she probly would have fell over!

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So I'm talking with someone on another board that says border collies (and other herders) should be kept outside because they like it better.

 

My two love to be outside -- as long as I am too. They are the typical swirl-around-your-feet dogs when I move and when I am sitting down, they need to be close enough to make sure that the instant I stir, they are at my feet again. Oh and my foster, Rhys bach, is here with me because of his desperate desire to come into his previous owners house. The final straw that landed him in the pound was, as I was told, that he barged through the door one day and knocked over and broke some glass ornament or vase.

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Sounds like nonsense to me. All my dogs want to be with people which for them involves spending a lot of time indoors. Though lately, I've found myself sometimes wishing they didn't sleep on the bed -- something they've done since puppyhood. Between alleriges, hormones and three dogs pushing up against me or grumbling at each other, my sleep is not what I would like.

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I typed a long post on the other forum in response to the person who said that, and it got lost because it's storming here. The gist of it was, my dogs, Shiner as well as the others, want to be where I am, whether that's inside or outside. It's always been my understanding that sheepdogs were bred to work closely with people and should be very people oriented. This is what happens when I try to put Shiner out to do some cleaning....

 

DSCN2463.jpg

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I know that I give my dogs excuses that they behave this way because of their life before they were rescued....but.... Cody ( the stray rescue) is only really nervous now when we take him out to do his business and it is raining. He heads back to the door and plasters himself to it ( worried that he won't be allowed in). We have always gone out with him and always brought him in. Cannot imagine what he would be like if he was left out. Also - this is the dog that puts himself to bed every night between 8:00 and 8:30, whether we are ready to go to bed or not. You go into our bedroom and he is sprawled on the pillows. Like all the other dogs - both Duchess and Cody love to go outside- they just expect you to go out and play with them.

 

Plus love the picture of Shiner - only way I can get the dogs out from under foot is turn on the vacuum. Then they go sit outside but return as soon as the vaccum is off.

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Just the other way around with Niki. Sure, she wants to be with me if I'm doing something interesting, but lots of times I'll be outside doing boring yard work, and she'll be inside on the couch.

 

And if I'm inside doing boring computer work, she's usually on the couch. Am I seeing a pattern here?

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This sounds like a description of livestock guardian dogs rather than herding dogs. (And I thought that for LGDs it's not such much independence as that they're bonded--or should be--to the livestock rather than to their people.)

 

Disclaimer: I've never had a LGD and am just going on what I've read and heard.

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This sounds like a description of livestock guardian dogs rather than herding dogs. (And I thought that for LGDs it's not such much independence as that they're bonded--or should be--to the livestock rather than to their people.)

 

Disclaimer: I've never had a LGD and am just going on what I've read and heard.

You're right. My LGD pretty much refuses to leave her flock. If I want to take her to the vet and don't want a huge fight on my hands, it's easier to load the trailer with some sheep and put her in there and take them all to the vet....

 

J.

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it's easier to load the trailer with some sheep and put her in there and take them all to the vet....

 

J.

 

That's funny, I can just see someone peeking into the trailer to see the sheep....what breed is that one??? Oh shit, it just barked and tried to bite me!!!

 

Sorry, can't help it, maybe it's just Iowa, but it always seems that someone has to climb up to peek into our trailer when we are stopped at the gas station.

 

Deb

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