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I was just sitting here wondering if there is a message board where Barbie Collie breeders and Kool-Aid drinkers hang out and what gets said in response to the newbies that show up and say, "I was looking at getting a pup from (insert name of any famous big hat here), what do you all think?" LOL! Oh all the possibilities! "No don`t go there! Those dogs have terrible flying trots!" ... or ... "I dont know how you`re going to hide all those legs come show time ... a brush can only do so much!" ... or ... "I wouldn`t go there ... they think herding is the be-all end-all to these very versatile dogs!" Oh to be a fly on the wall ....

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lol yes that would be quite an interesting experience! We should hunt one down and report back... :rolleyes:

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A while back I went to a couple AKC boards when this board was just getting too hostile and unpleasant. I have to admit they were pretty welcoming, even though I don't show my dogs, said nice things about their pictures and were not all that evil. I never saw any comments about not buying from any big hats or anything, they mostly talked about the latest shows, how each others' dogs did and what shows are coming up. Some behavior and food questions were there too. But, all in all, it was a pretty pleasant experience; keeping in mind that I didn't go looking for a fight or to say anything negative about their dogs.

 

Olivia

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Seems to me that that would be just borrowing trouble. Let them be - No need to stir the pot.

 

I agree though I don't think there is one just because I've looked for more bc boards before. Not that I don't like you guys. :rolleyes:

 

I'm on all breed boards and one board that is very pro showing, the others are more pro rescue. You get a variety of opinions but we tend to all agree to disagree so it stays relatively civil (except the rescue versus breeders threads really). I tend to be the single man out many times on one board. I used to belong to an AKC/UKC performance forum back when I was showing with Beau (pap) but I've lost the address. It wasn't very active. There are a couple conformation border collie people on that very pro-showing board and yep we tend to disagree a lot. I wish I knew more about working bcs to make my points clearer but it's hard to be the only one arguing a point many times.

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Seems to me that that would be just borrowing trouble. Let them be - No need to stir the pot.

This is my feeling.

 

I did join a pet/show/performance board once, at the request of a working Border Collie friend who wanted some help in explaining the breeding-for-work versus breeding-for-something-else concept. All it did was stir up a hornet's nest and accomplished nothing positive. I won't do that again and, for that reason, I have not joined and don't visit any boards where there is no emphasis on working dogs and working-bred dogs.

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My experience is that show oriented communities are incredibly snore worthy. Lots of back slapping and self aggrandizement and occaisional echoes of the party line. For Border Collies of course that's BCs can do it all! every time a Ch gets his or her CD or instinct test.

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I wish I knew more about working bcs to make my points clearer but it's hard to be the only one arguing a point many times.

 

So very true. Especially if you run with a pro-AKC crowd in real life, like in agility or obedience. I'm pretty sure that most of the people around here who do agility are into the AKC and sport breeders. But I will keep trying to make a difference, even if the only thing I can do is let them know that working dogs are /awesome/ for agility or anything else they might want, and that there is another option out there. Sometimes that is all you can do.

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So very true. Especially if you run with a pro-AKC crowd in real life, like in agility or obedience. I'm pretty sure that most of the people around here who do agility are into the AKC and sport breeders. But I will keep trying to make a difference, even if the only thing I can do is let them know that working dogs are /awesome/ for agility or anything else they might want, and that there is another option out there. Sometimes that is all you can do.

 

I do run more with those crowds being involved in agility. Actually the agility folk I know are very anti border collies being shown. They had this discussion the other day about how important it was to breed them as working dogs. I got all excited but then looked up their breeders and they all came from sports breeders that's lines haven't seen sheep or cows in generations. But yet they call them working dogs from 'real cattle lines'. I was going to mention that one here but I figured it had already been discussed.

 

Every time I try to get involved, I get the annoyed 'You don't even have a border collie!' look.

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I saw several Barbie Collies this weekend, I think I threw up a little in my mouth. They're so ugly! and fluffy! I also can't figure out why they seem to have a big bulbous forehead and far apart wide-set eyes... blech...

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They're so ugly! and fluffy! I also can't figure out why they seem to have a big bulbous forehead and far apart wide-set eyes... blech...

 

Hehe. Mal's brother went to live with a lady whose other Border Collie is a conformation dog. What's really strange is that Mike (his brother) now has the broad head and wide-set eyes. Mal and his sister look like good, sensible Border Collies. Although Mal does have the thickest coat of the bunch, Mike really could go in the show ring and compete while the other two would be laughed out of the show (not that we would be there anyway). I think there's something in their water, because all three looked normal at 4 months old when we got them. Strange things happening in the Show Collie world...

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I saw several Barbie Collies this weekend, I think I threw up a little in my mouth. They're so ugly! and fluffy! I also can't figure out why they seem to have a big bulbous forehead and far apart wide-set eyes... blech...

 

Isn't criticizing a BC for it's looks the same thing that many criticize the conformation owners of doing??? I personally like the fluffy look!

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Isn't criticizing a BC for it's looks the same thing that many criticize the conformation owners of doing??? I personally like the fluffy look!

 

years ago, I would have agreed with you that it was wrong to judge any Border Collie by it's looks. Unfortunately now the conformation bred Border Collile is of such bizarre, non fuctional conformation and coat that the breeder and owners who contribute to that imo, deserve the comments that they get.

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years ago, I would have agreed with you that it was wrong to judge any Border Collie by it's looks. Unfortunately now the conformation bred Border Collile is of such bizarre, non fuctional conformation and coat that the breeder and owners who contribute to that imo, deserve the comments that they get.

 

Well, my BC is conformation bred, and I think she's adorable!

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Here you go: Barbie Collies

 

LOL uh oh Does this make Cressa a barbie than? Her name is mention on BCSA twice for new titles!! :rolleyes::D:D

CressaJuly09.jpg Her after a hard day "work" of earning titles and points

 

ETA: The people on the show border collie board are pretty nice. For the most part they keep mean/rude criticism and/or comments to themelves. You just have to watch who you ask/listen to as you are either competition or easy points.

 

LOL I am sure some "top hats" dogs could easily get a Ch if they wanted to.

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LOL I am sure some "top hats" dogs could easily get a Ch if they wanted to.

Fortunately, they have much more important things to do - like proving their dogs' value as working dogs.

 

I think a big issue about a perceived "difference" between a board like this and "show" boards is that the show folks think they are the future, and that would be a sad future for this useful and unique breed. We hope to protect the Border Collie from the future they envision - show dogs, pets, performance dog, and "herding" titles - not practical, hard-working, sound, instinctive, farm/ranch/small farm dogs that are the stockman/stockwoman's right hand. And downright fun dogs as companions and sport dogs for those that don't make the grade on the farm or who find other, excellent homes off the farm.

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Fortunately, they have much more important things to do - like proving their dogs' value as working dogs.

 

I think a big issue about a perceived "difference" between a board like this and "show" boards is that the show folks think they are the future, and that would be a sad future for this useful and unique breed. We hope to protect the Border Collie from the future they envision - show dogs, pets, performance dog, and "herding" titles - not practical, hard-working, sound, instinctive, farm/ranch/small farm dogs that are the stockman/stockwoman's right hand. And downright fun dogs as companions and sport dogs for those that don't make the grade on the farm or who find other, excellent homes off the farm.

 

Sue, I couldn't agree with you more.

 

And as far as conformation dogs and the way they look, I personally think that they look like black and white golden retrievers with such big bones and wide set eyes.

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I’m keeping my opinion about working vs AKC bred BCs to myself.

 

However, it appears to me the OP has done it yet again; her only reason for starting this thread is to stir up a hornets nest and then run for cover just to watch the mayhem and destruction.

 

If we want to discuss the pros and cons of AKC vs working Border collies, fine. But please don’t buy into all the mudslinging

 

I’ve seen the OP do it before and don’t think much of it.

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I think the rough part about the whole debate is that the individual dogs get stuck in the middle, just like an ugly divorce. Just because a dog is bred a certain way doesn't mean that they're not still a great dog and a wonderful pet/companion... imo their 'parents' just made a bad mistake, no different than a couple of young and dumb high school kids getting pregnant. It's not the individual dog's fault, a mistake was made and they were the end result. It also doesn't mean that things can't turn out ok or good in the end.

 

It becomes an even bigger problem though when a breed is riddled with genetic disorders, i.e. the brain thing with Cava Kings, the seizures with boxers, the horribly poor conformation in GSDs, bulldogs, etc....... and then the poor individual dog has to suffer for a bad cross.

 

Just my opinion...

 

And as far as conformation dogs and the way they look, I personally think that they look like black and white golden retrievers with such big bones and wide set eyes.

 

I've never heard that before, but now that you mention it... they sure do look like that don't they?

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