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Remote ranch home for BC denied by Rescue groups


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Absolutely! But rules and conditions vary, and sometimes much in the way of rules or real help for the animals doesn't exist, and sometimes it's the staff. This whole issue is not a simple one.

 

 

Yep! We are on the same page there. And I don't know anything about county laws that would bind publically funded shelters.

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Oh, that's a real thing. laugh.gif

 

Yup. Don't forget International Talk Like a Pirate Day coming up Sept 19! Ar! Sorry, more OT.

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I suggest you volunteer with a rescue and go out on some home checks before you start slamming them for putting their dogs first by trying to place them into the best home possible. If you'd seen what I did on the last two checks I completed, you might just possibly understand why they are a crucial component of the adoption approval process.

 

And as to your hyperbole with regard to Nazi Germany-- Really?? Did someone put a gun to your head and force you to apply to a rescue. Let me disabuse you of the idea that you are doing the rescue any great favors by applying for one of their dogs. It's not about YOU--it's about the dogs.

 

The immaturity you've demonstrated here is astonishing.

 

I've done many hours of volunteer work with our local shelter. I understand the irresponsible owners they deal with on a daily basis, as well as the abused animals, and so I "get" the reasons they want to try to prevent a bad situation before it can occur.

 

But that said, I agree with mattinky. Too many of these people are absurd in the way they treat prospective adopters. They seem to think they are the only ones who know how to care for a pet properly, and that there is only one way that is acceptable. The applicant is guilty until proven innocent, and personally, I think some of shelter/rescue people just get off on the power trip they're on, especially when there's a child involved and the parent is desperate not to let that child be disappointed or hurt.

 

Ok, so a rescue is a private organization and the people running it are not obligated to give a dog to anyone. I accept that. But I go elsewhere for my animals. And let me tell you, so do a lot of other people. If it were really only "about the dogs," that would concern you.

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personally, I think some of shelter/rescue people just get off on the power trip they're on, especially when there's a child involved and the parent is desperate not to let that child be disappointed or hurt.

 

Congratulations! You figured us out. We are all just hollow, power-hungry people who really couldn't give a crap about the dogs in our care, especially if we have the chance to dash a child's dreams. Yep, that's it. We give up countless hours of our personal time, ignore our own families, put our own dogs second, spend hours driving in our cars to meet potential adopters, pick dogs up, and drop dogs off. We use our personal vacation time to take dogs to endless vet appointments or make it to shelters during normal business hours. We often spend our own money to cover expenses that the rescue can't. Oh, and let's not forget the joy we feel when we get to watch a dog/puppy suffer in pain, and how drunk on power we are when we get to make the decision to end that dog/puppy's life. Or, how about the ones who aren't physically sick but are mentally sick? There's no greater feeling of power than being able to be the one to make the decision to end a dog's life because it cannot function safely in our world. Yep, it's all about power.

 

Walk a mile in my shoes. I doubt you would continue to believe that I do this out of some sick need to feel power over other people. If all I had to do was take care of the dogs and someone else could run the day-to-day "business" and make all the difficult decisions, I'd be happier than a pig in $hit. But, it doesn't work that way, unfortunately. Do we make mistakes? Certainly. Is it an endless learning process? No question it is. But, making mistakes and learning and changing is part of growing and [hopefully] becoming better. Maybe you all could see it that way instead of seeing it as some sort of quest for more and more power.

 

Peace out.

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WARNING: VERY LONG RESPONSE

 

I am a VERY active volunteer for Arizona Border Collie Rescue. I am sorry if you feel marginalized by our inability to get back to you promptly, but no one gets paid to do any of the work that we do. A vast majority of us have full time jobs, dogs of our own, plus fosters in our homes. We do not have a lot of free time.

 

It is very hard for us when we are interviewing adopters in other states. We have a hard enough time getting people out to visit homes in Arizona, let alone another state. We have adopted to New Mexico adopters before, heck even Canada, but our normal system is completely thrown off and it can take more time. I don't think it is fair to pick on Bob either, especially since he is not here to defend himself. You don't know Bob, but I do. I know that Bob calls just about EVERY application that comes through our rescue. I often get emails from the poor guy late into the wee hours of the night as he tries to squeeze in as much rescue work as possible. If he said that someone will you call you, I am sure they will. We have had to work very hard recently with two other rescues to get some pups out of a bad situation, we have two events coming up in the next month, and the local shelters are over flowing. It is not as if we are just sitting here twiddling our thumbs. I know how hard I and others have been working recently, and it is comments like this:

that are completely uncalled for. I am one of "these people," and I would appreciate it if you didn't try and assume that you know my views on anything. We get that you are upset, but really, you are going to throw out discrimination because someone doesn't call you back as quickly as you would like?? In case you are unfamiliar on why rescues check out people's residences I would like to clarify. BAD people, people who abuse dogs try and get dogs from rescues just as they do every where else. We owe it to the dogs in our care to make sure they go to a safe home. Being a dog lover I am sure you would never just give a dog to someone not knowing how they would treat it. Please take a moment to step back and remember that this process is about finding the best home for the dog. We have a responsibility to every dog that we take in, and we do not take it lightly.

 

Any dog that has adoption pending on the website means that they are already in adoptive homes. We do not consider the dog officially adopted until the dog has been successfully placed in the home for two weeks. We also do not hold dogs for anyone in the adopting process. If we find a good home we place the dog. It is not fair to the dog to have to pass up on a great home because someone else is interested.

 

If you truly need a great working dog, as others have said, it can take a while. It sounds like you are familiar to what can happen to a working dog's ability through improper breeding. Most dogs that have been bred for outstanding working ability do not wind up in rescues because the responsible breeders are amazing at placing them in great homes. Every once and a while we may get a working gem, but we may not have a great working dog in rescue right now.

 

As a personal note I would like to remind people of the damage you can cause an organization by bad mouthing it on the internet. I am sure your post was mainly intended to express your feelings and not meant to make any of the rescue's work at placing dogs any harder. Regardless of your intentions your words can have consequences. I came to this site and lurked before I got my first border collie. How many lurkers could have read your post and automatically assumed that all these rescues are horrible and apparently discriminate against ranchers? Your words in cyber space do not exist in a vacuum; they have consequences.

 

It sounds like you have time, and from what you have written a lot of passion. Why not take that time and frustration and help a rescue out? As you have experienced, we have a lot of work and not of a lot of time to get it done in. Even someone who is in a different state can help out tremendously.

 

ETA: We do not have a facility. We are literally just a bunch of people connected by email and phone who keep the dogs in our homes.

 

 

 

I know all about bad people who mistreat animals. I offered many photos and all information requested - even more. If someone had taken a moment and sent me an email referencing time frame, or lack of time frame, I could have gone to work and checked for updates. Bob was extremely courteous and helpful. I took more photos. Sent more emails downloaded applications one page at a time, filled them out by hand, rescanned them into the computer one page at a time and tried to email them - one page at a time. Nothing. The suggestion has been made that I should call. All the sites have email addresses and ask that inquiries be sent by email. Some sites have no telephone numbers listed. Some email addresses are not current and messages were returned. I do not have Outlook Express. I copied down all email addresses and sent email inquiries through my email account.

 

It should be noted that some breeders I have contacted suddenly do not return my messages presumably because they have contacted rescue groups. If you are a trial person or breeder, don't get yourself blackballed or put into an uncomfortable situation over this. Some people will never be able to wait months for a response and some direction. I ignored most work here on the ranch because the dog is a very high priority. I repeat - most farm/ranch people will NOT have the time to do this. I don't either, but chose to put off straightening out my horses to prepare for stock to find a dog. I do not expect people who are not familiar with ranch life to understand the implications of this, but it would be interesting if some people could start to understand that they don't have a clue about how things work on ranches and farms. Nobody has time for anything but work at this time of year. In another couple of weeks, it will be worse. Then we will be getting the wood and hay in and fixing the fences before winter hits.

 

My intent was to find a puppy and an older dog. Doesn't matter which order as long as there is some time to get each dog used to the environment. I have located both, but will consider making room for an older homeless dog too at a later date. I did think an evaluation by an experienced rescue group would be very helpful, but I could not get past the application process. I gave excellent references that I thought would be accepted - a woman near here who knows me, my dog and horses, who has done large and small rescue for many years. She has also owned and trained working Border Collies, and at one time held herding exhibitions in the area. AT the moment she has the core of the the El Rito Mustang herd on a ranch near here. They were being illegally shot by ranchers on their BLM grazing allotments. Like me, she walked away from her career in order to take care of animals who needed assistance. I also offered the name of the local vet who cared for my dog before she died. He has been to my house, knows who I work for and knows my animals are more than well cared for. All the immunization I use come from his office.

 

There is no reason to become defensive or make accusations. I do not see how this expenditure of energy helps any of the dogs. It's a waste of time.

 

 

Jane Sheridan Collins

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Jane,

Some of us do actually farm and so do understand the implications of taking time off to do other things. Sweeping generalizations and assumptions are helpful to neither side. Also you never answered anyone's questions about what you plan to work with your dogs--it makes a difference. I'm glad you've located dogs that will work for you. Instead of being accusatory to all rescues on the planet, perhaps now you can take your new dog(s) and get back to work.

 

By the way, I can't imagine breeders contacting rescue groups to find out about a potential puppy buyer. That idea is completely out of left field as far as I'm concerned. It's more likely you told the breeders something that raised a red flag and made them--as *individuals*--decide you weren't a good fit for one of their dogs. I'm okay if you're pissed off at rescues, really, but to try to lay everything that hasn't worked out subsequent to your application at one (?) rescue on all area rescues is more than a bit of a stretch IMO.

 

It seems to me that you're trying very hard to make this a farmer/rancher vs. everyone else issue and a rescue is to blame for all your problems issue, and I don't think either is really the case. You got some good advice on this thread, and what you do with it is up to you.

 

There is no reason to become defensive or make accusations. I do not see how this expenditure of energy helps any of the dogs. It's a waste of time.

 

And this is just the pot calling the kettle, well, you know....

 

J.

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Jane,

 

Congratulations on overcoming the considerable obstacles you're faced with, in order to find your new companions. I had a feeling you'd find a way. So glad you won't be dogless any more. I don't know what I'd do without my dogs, even with plenty of other animals around it wouldn't be the same. May they be a joy and a comfort (and maybe even prove helpful out working) in the years ahead. Sounds like your winter will definitely be warmer now.

 

Best wishes to you and all your outfit, now and in the future,

 

Liz S in PA

 

 

 

My intent was to find a puppy and an older dog. Doesn't matter which order as long as there is some time to get each dog used to the environment. I have located both, but will consider making room for an older homeless dog too at a later date.

 

Jane Sheridan Collins

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I think some of shelter/rescue people just get off on the power trip they're on, especially when there's a child involved and the parent is desperate not to let that child be disappointed or hurt.

 

Hmm. I think that any parent who makes the un-wise decision to tell or promise a child that they're going to be getting a dog, before it's a done deal, only has themselves to blame if they end up with a disappointed or hurt kid.

 

And then there's always the important lesson that every child will have to eventually learn and cope with: disappointment happens.

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There is no reason to become defensive or make accusations. I do not see how this expenditure of energy helps any of the dogs. It's a waste of time.

 

I don't see where I accused anyone of anything. Either way I sent you a PM before I read you responce. ABCR sounds like they are still working on your situation. I was told in passing that they were working on a situation of someone in New Mexico who wanted to adopt. I didn't mention the lovely things that were blasted all over cyber space because in the end, it is all about the dogs. If you are a good home you can say whatever you want about us, all I care is that you are good to the dog.

 

I am not sure where you are located in New Mexico, but apparently there is a 6ish month old BC/Aussie pup in a shelter near the TX border that has contacted quite a few rescues who are trying to get it out of there. It sounds like you are pretty firmiliar with the shelters in your state and maybe you have a better idea of where I am talking about than I do. The Colorado Aussie people contacted the AZ Aussie people who mentioned this to us at an event this weekend. I am not sure if any rescues will be able to get to this poor pup in time. You may want to check him/her out.

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Maybe you all could see it that way instead of seeing it as some sort of quest for more and more power.

Mary, I think some (most?) of us do. :D

In the end, we must sometimes accept the fact that the time cycle involved in adoption from rescue, constrained by limited resources and time, may not be in synch with the sense of urgency we feel in wanting a dog. There are therefore two alternatives: be patient and work through the process, or explore other alternatives (with perhaps less desirable results). Rescuers are deeply caring, loving, committed people who fill a role that most of the rest of us can neither fully appreciate, nor commit the time and/or resources required.

And the dogs know it, too... :rolleyes:

 

To you, from all your rescue dogs...

 

I would've died that day if not for you.

I would've given up on life if not for your kind eyes.

I would've used my teeth in fear if not for your gentle hands.

I would have left this life believing that all humans don't care,

Believing there is no such thing as fur that isn't matted,

Skin that isn't flea bitten, good food and enough of it, beds to sleep on,

Someone to love me, to show me I deserve love just because I exist.

Your kind eyes, your loving smile, your gentle hands,

Your big heart saved me...

You saved me from the terror of the pound,

Soothing away the memories of my old life.

You have taught me what it means to be loved.

I have seen you do the same for other dogs like me.

I have heard you ask yourself in times of despair

Why you do it

When there is no more money, no more room, no more homes,

You open your heart a little bigger, stretch the money a little tighter,

Make just a little more room...to save one more like me.

I tell you with the gratitude and love that shines in my eyes

In the best way I know how,

Reminding you why you go on trying.

I am the reason,

The dogs before me are the reason,

As are the ones who come after.

Our lives would've been wasted, our love never given.

We would die if not for you.

 

~ Author Unknown

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Ok, so a rescue is a private organization and the people running it are not obligated to give a dog to anyone. I accept that. But I go elsewhere for my animals. And let me tell you, so do a lot of other people. If it were really only "about the dogs," that would concern you.

 

 

Oh yes, youre right--it does! You see, we just took in our 800th dog into rescue. And since we couldn't find anyone worthy enough to adopt the other 799 to, this could be a problem. :rolleyes:

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Wow. :rolleyes: So now the rescues and the breeders are in some double-nought secret conspiracy to keep the OP from getting a puppy? :D

 

Lady, if your applications read anything like your posts, I'm not at all surprised you have found it difficult to adopt.

Well said Sally. If the people who have posted anti-rescue rants here came across the same way to the rescues they dealt with, it's really not surprising they weren't well received. But we are now a culture of self-absorption, instant gratification, and entitlement, so I guess it should come as no surprise that people expect rescues and others to drop everything to cater to them RIGHT NOW and that their wants should be put above all others.

 

J.

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Wow. :rolleyes: So now the rescues and the breeders are in some double-nought secret conspiracy to keep the OP from getting a puppy? :D

 

Lady, if your applications read anything like your posts, I'm not at all surprised you have found it difficult to adopt.

 

THANK YOU, Sally, for saying what I think many of us were thinking.

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But we are now a culture of self-absorption, instant gratification, and entitlement, so I guess it should come as no surprise that people expect rescues and others to drop everything to cater to them RIGHT NOW and that their wants should be put above all others.

Yep, which brings up another problem. How do you divide 1 dog between 2, 3, 5 or more people?? First come, first serve is absurd yet people have a problem understanding why one home is better than another. If the dog is an ankle nipper and the 1st home has kids, would it really be in the best interest of anyone if that home adopted the dog?? Jane wants a herding dog. Not all border collies that get into rescue have herding instinct. Why is that so hard to understand???

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But we are now a culture of self-absorption, instant gratification, and entitlement, so I guess it should come as no surprise that people expect rescues and others to drop everything to cater to them RIGHT NOW and that their wants should be put above all others.

 

J.

 

I believe this is a key element in the frustration of both the rescue and potential forever home.

 

Rescue is not, and I repeat is not, Burger King where you can have it your way in that it has readily available exactly what the adoptee wants in a prospective animal. When you see Fluffybutt on a web site and think he would be "perfect" for you and your family or situation, we know that Fluffybutt may have no recall, hates kids, is fear, food or animal aggressive, chases (NOT HERDS) anything that moves, is epileptic or any of a number of things that we, as rescues, MUST take into consideration for the sake of the dog AND you. (Whether you think about it or not)

 

Many rescue orgs and particularly foster families form bonds with their (hopefully) temporary charges. It takes a certain kind of person or personality to do that with the knowledge that this animal that they have taken in, fed, cared for, trained and evaluated, expended personal finances and argued with their spouses (or parents or significant others) will go to someone they hardly know and will most likely never be seen again. Most fosters neglect their own families and pets just to get this temporary family member in their home, attended to and eventually placed.

 

They have their own underground railroad to move animals across the state, the country and in some cases the continent typically on their own dime and time. They have taken vacation time and personal days off of work to make sure that a dog in a kill facility in Louisana gets to a foster home in Spokane, Washington on 2 days notice.

 

So at that point if you, as the potential forever home, are "just getting a dog" then you are sadly mistaken and if that is the attitude you are presenting to me, you are not getting the one that I have in my home.

 

If I have done my job right as a foster home, I have developed a level of trust with my charge that (s)he may have never known before. I'll be damned if I am going to betray that trust by letting him or her go "just anywhere" because someone that has never even met my charge thinks they would be the perfect home.

 

You may be, you may not but I am going to do my best, by the dog, to make sure that you are. The dog is the one that suffers if I do anything less.

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In the course of this thread, rescuers have posted their viewpoints, and I have been absolutely supportive of their perspectives. They have asked that we understand their situations, and they deserve that. But doesn’t the owner who wants to give a good home to a needy dog also deserve some credit? That owner has chosen to forego the easy path of simply purchasing a dog from a breeder (or worse, from a pet store,) and to open his/her home to a dog that may have issues and/or special needs. Before prospective owners demonize the rescue organizations, they should understand their unique circumstances. Conversely, it would be nice if the rescuers give at least some credit to those who are seeking to provide a home for these dogs as well…

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Bustopher,

I think they do give some credit; after all, that's how so many dogs get adopted out, isn't it? But the people who had happy adoptions aren't the ones coming to Internet forums and complaining. Maybe that's because their adoption went quickly, or maybe they didn't have high expectations of the process and so were willing to wait it out to get the right dog. Maybe they didn't mind having their homes checked or being asked to meet the requirements of the rescue. Some of the people who have posted in defense of rescue organizations, me included, are not rescuers ourselves, but we do own dogs we got through rescue.

 

I just don't get the whole "rescues owe me' attitude. I certainly didn't take that approach when I got my rescue dogs. I went to the rescue hoping they would see me as a suitable candidate to provide a good lifelong home for one of their dogs. I wouldn't take that approach if I was applying for a loan or even looking to buy a pup from a breeder. Somehow when it comes to organizations like rescues, people get this idea that *they* are doing the rescue a favor by offering to adopt one of their dogs and how dare the rescue not immediately jump at the person's gracious offer to take one of those rescues off their hands, NOW. I just don't get it....

 

J.

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I didn't realize this was about getting "credit". I thought it was about getting the right dog for you/your family.

 

 

 

In the course of this thread, rescuers have posted their viewpoints, and I have been absolutely supportive of their perspectives. They have asked that we understand their situations, and they deserve that. But doesn’t the owner who wants to give a good home to a needy dog also deserve some credit? That owner has chosen to forego the easy path of simply purchasing a dog from a breeder (or worse, from a pet store,) and to open his/her home to a dog that may have issues and/or special needs. Before prospective owners demonize the rescue organizations, they should understand their unique circumstances. Conversely, it would be nice if the rescuers give at least some credit to those who are seeking to provide a home for these dogs as well…
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Bustopher,

I have seen some times, maybe not enough, when new owners have been thanked for getting dogs from rescue, humane societies or the pound.

 

I think it goes along with the "bad news sells" philosophy.

 

But being honest here, I don't think that I have ever seen a thread started by a new forever home that praised the rescue they got the dog from either. And the rescue folks here have not started threads about the horror stories (and yes, we have them) about people that have tried to adopt dogs through them.

 

It always seems that in these types of threads that they are started by disappointed people with "What's wrong with these rescues? They won't adopt to me" complaint.

 

So while there may not be enough credit given to adopters, it is certainly overshadowed by blame towards rescues.

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But being honest here, I don't think that I have ever seen a thread started by a new forever home that praised the rescue they got the dog from either. And the rescue folks here have not started threads about the horror stories (and yes, we have them) about people that have tried to adopt dogs through them.

 

I've seen plenty of threads where people introduce their new dog or pup, adopted from a rescue. They get far fewer replies and people forget them quickly. You say, "Cute dog, congrats" and move on.

 

I posted an introduction about a cat I had adopted through a rescue. I was screened thoroughly despite being a veterinary student. They let me have the cat after I explained why my dogs were not being vaccinated every year and why one of them was intact. They also called all of my references, as I expected them to do. While the application process was a lot more involved than going to the shelter and adopting there I don't regret it at all. I wanted that particular cat, and we were a perfect match for one another. I went into the process understanding that the rescue group owned him and that they had the right to refuse to adopt him to me. Had I not been able to get Rhys I would have just continued my search until I found a cat that had worked for my situation.

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Well said Sally. If the people who have posted anti-rescue rants here came across the same way to the rescues they dealt with, it's really not surprising they weren't well received. But we are now a culture of self-absorption, instant gratification, and entitlement, so I guess it should come as no surprise that people expect rescues and others to drop everything to cater to them RIGHT NOW and that their wants should be put above all others.

 

J.

 

Julie, I hope you don't mean me. I didn't mean to rant. I just thought that having a little pen in my yard would not have made me a better person to have a dog like Fergie.

 

Which is the dog that I wanted. Yeah, the dog who is so calm around deer that our new doe wants to meet her. And the Muscovy family swarms around her feet - and mine. And who, in a round pen with sheep, just wanted to meet and greet them.

 

I just wanted a chance for an interview. Maybe, if that went well - on the phone - a visit to see our home and our situation. And then a discussion of our plans for a dog.

 

But I was turned down flat because I didn't have a fenced yard or a pen.

 

And, I understood that the rescue got to make the rules. So Fergie is not from a rescue. She is a dog who would have ended up in a rescue or a shelter or a pound, had I not adopted her.

 

I was just trying to make the point that not all of us can match the requirements of our local rescue group.

 

And that's not all that bad. But we might just make OK adopters, anyhow.

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