pansmom Posted July 20, 2009 Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 After trying several medicines, all of which worked briefly but then stopped working (the carbamazepine + citalopram combination recently failed too), and yet another claw attack against me today (lately she has started supplanting growling and snapping with jumping and clawing because she can get more of a reaction out of me--I am covered with scratches on my arms and legs and belly, some of which are bloody, even though I can stop her when she does this because she's on a drag line--because she's fast), my husband and I have decided we are going to put Pan to sleep tonight or tomorrow. It was my decision... I'm at my breaking point. (He's been at his breaking point since oh Febuary sometime...) I am incredibly grieved about this, and feel terrible, but I will also admit that selfishly I'm going to be very relieved when it's over and my house is once again a haven of peace and quiet, and I won't have to worry about strange noises outside sending my dog into a ferocious barking fit that can easily redirect into terrible aggression against a tiny cat. Or myself. (Even in a muzzle, it's psychologically stressful - for both me and the cats.) She keeps getting better, then deteriorating, to back where she was before - adding new behaviors to supplant ones we've modified, etc. After I emailed Dr. Haug to tell her, she called me on the phone, and said Pan is an extraordinarily difficult dog, because she's just not wired right upstairs, and this is a perfectly acceptable solution. She said the fixing process would've taken a year at least, and wouldn't be guaranteed to work even then. Then she likened the situation to domestic abuse, a vicious cycle, and the only healthy thing to do sometimes is to get out of the situation, which for dogs like Pan who cannot ethically be rehomed means euthanasia. Overall, she was very supportive and tried to alleviate my guilt (even as I bawled uncontrollably on the phone). Even though the situation did not end at all the way I wanted it to, I am still very glad I worked with her, because it means I tried my best to help Pan; I went all the way up to my breaking point. She said I tried harder than the majority of dog owners, even trainers, would've, and to try not to feel too bad. Still, I do. Dear Pan, my sweet puppy, I am so sorry. How I wish there was something I could've done to help. I love you. ETA: Just a note to everyone: when she jumps and claws, no matter what I do, she takes it as a challenge and turns it into a game (if it's playful) or a fight (if there is growling involved)--we tried dominance first, then nonconfrontational methods, then body-blocking and stepping into her space and eyeing her, even telling her "No, sit" in a very stern voice doesn't work anymore... The only thing I can do is basically just grab her dragline and hold it up to abort the activity. And it takes me a second to get to the drag line, which is when I get all scratched up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debbie Meier Posted July 20, 2009 Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 Sending you a big hug, sometimes the best thing we can do is to set them free, granting peace to a tormented mind and peace to your own lives and household. Deb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krambambuli Posted July 20, 2009 Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 Hi Mary -- I had been following your story with Pan, and I am so, so sorry for all of you. For Pan of course, but for you and your husband to have to make this decision. I'll be thinking of you and Pan!!! You have tried a whole lot, and as Dr. Haug agreed, sometimes it does not work. It's not your fault, and not your pups fault! I have a dog who has many issues, and the description that she is not "quite wired right upstairs", fits with her, too. My advantage is that my dog is not aggressive toward us at all. I don't know if I would have been able to keep her under those circumstances. Of course you feel guilty right now and will continue to feel guilty for some time, it's unavoidable, BUT it does not mean that you are wrong or a bad person. If Pan were incurably sick, this decision would somehow seem "easier" in the broadest sense, but mental illness is just another form of sickness, so try to think of it that way. Hoping you all find peace with this, I'll cry a little with you for your beautiful dog. Andrea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebecca, Irena Farm Posted July 20, 2009 Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 Peace to Pan and peace and grace to you and your family. Don't be a stranger, even if you don't go with a Border Collie the next time around. You've learned a lot that I hope you'll consider passing on to others. ((((((big hugs)))))) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aljones Posted July 20, 2009 Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 I am so sorry to read this update. I had been following your journey with Pan, too, and cheering from the sidelines when it seemed you were making progress. Thank you for everything you did for her, and I hope that, in time, you will be able to remember Pan for what she taught you and not for all the painful challenges you faced. With every good wish for you, your husband, and Pan at this extremely difficult time, Angie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSmitty Posted July 20, 2009 Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 I'm sorry. I know words don't help much right now, but my thoughts are with you and Pan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted July 20, 2009 Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 You have put in everything you could to help Pan. Sometimes, there just is no happy ending. Condolences to you all and thank you for trying so very hard, and sharing the journey with us. Your experiences may well help someone else and their dog to solve problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixie_Girl Posted July 20, 2009 Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 You've done so much for Pan, but sometimes you just have to call it. Hugs and prayers for you as you take this final, heartbreaking step. But it will release Pan from the demons that haunt her and that will be good. Take care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweet_ceana Posted July 20, 2009 Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 <<HUGS>> Sometimes doing the right thing hurts so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cody & Duchess Posted July 20, 2009 Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 This is a decision that has come to you with a very heavy heart. No one else has stood in your exact same shoes. I am so sorry, for Pan, for you and your husband. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoloRiver Posted July 20, 2009 Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 I am very sorry for both Pan and her owner in this situation. For anyone else who finds him/herself in a similar situation, I would like you to know that there is no way to determine definitively if a drug is "working" or has "stopped working" in the space of a few months, particularly if a given drug combination has only been given for a very short time, or if a number of medications have been attempted in quick succession. This is especially true of TCAs and SSRIs, the types of meds that are prescribed for these situations. In addition, medication does not bring miracles; there is no such thing as a cure for what ails dogs like Pan, and owners should understand this from the outset in order to make realistic decisions about what they are and are not willing or able to do in situations like these. For owners in this situation, know that dogs like this approach wellness asymptotically, not directly, and that there will be setbacks along the way. Solo would improve and then backslide over the course of months. I have had him since 2000 and although I consider him a pleasure to live with, I still don't consider him normal and know he never will be. If you know that this is the sort of trajectory you cannot handle, then you know the right decision for you and your dog. If you think you are up to the challenge, please be realistic and you will be much less likely to be disappointed. But anyway, the question of whether the meds worked for Pan or not is, in the end, neither here nor there. The larger point is that it is not possible for situations like this to work out for everyone, no matter what medications are prescribed to the dog. But sometimes they do. It takes a bit of luck in that the "right" dog finds the "right" home, or one that is both willing (as the OP was) and able (as she was not) of taking on all that it entails for that particular dog. We as owners are not always in the right position to do "everything possible" for a dog. When I got Solo I was lucky in that I had a flexible schedule and was single and lived alone, and got immediate and consistent professional help, not only from a veterinary behaviorist but also from sympathetic, knowledgeable trainers. I was unlucky in that I lived in the middle of a major city and that Solo was exposed to his triggers multiple times every single day. In a different context, say if I had small children, he would have been even more difficult to work with. If I'd owned my own home his rehab would have been much easier. There are always many factors involved. In the end Solo and I both got very lucky in that the balance worked out, and so with me he found a permanent home, but had I been in a different life situation it might not have worked out that way. To the OP, I totally understand that you have done everything that you were personally capable of and respect your decision. I really wanted a happy ending for you, but we don't always get those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bc4ever Posted July 20, 2009 Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 Ohhhh...I'm so sorry. Others have said it much more eloquently, but certainly not more sincerely. Pam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaggieDog Posted July 20, 2009 Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 (((hugs))) Know you've tried your best - that's all any of us can ever do for our animals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ooky Posted July 20, 2009 Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 I am so sorry to hear this. I feel for you and your family very much. Mental illness is not your or Pan's fault, I'm sure you know that, but it can't hurt to keep repeating it. One of my friends married a girl who became seriously mentally ill about 6 months into the marriage (a lot of mental illness shows up in late-teens/early 20s in humans, so she literally was not crazy when he married her, then the illness developed). It has been 5 long years of treatment with various medicines, doctors, and diagnoses; several turns inside mental institutions, etc. Yet she just had a big set back this month after finally being able to hold a job for the first time in years and is now back in the psychiatric ward. I'm just trying to say that the cycle of setbacks and effective-then-ineffective treatment happens in humans too, even given all the resources we put towards the contrary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanty Posted July 20, 2009 Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 Very sorry Pansmom, I hope you are gaining strength from your friends here. I've appreciated your detailed updates and personal words of encouragement. I hope we'll still see you around as you will still be 'pansmom' no matter what. Take courage - you're making a choice to make her life less painful, not just yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninso Posted July 20, 2009 Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 I am very sorry to hear this! I hope you know that most board members here, including myself, have the utmost respect for the immense amount of time, energy and resources you put into working with Pan. You did everything you could. I hope you find peace and comfort in that knowledge, even though I'm sure this is still very difficult for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pansmom Posted July 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 To the OP, I totally understand that you have done everything that you were personally capable of and respect your decision. I really wanted a happy ending for you, but we don't always get those. Thanks Melanie. Just to be clear to everyone, though, I wasn't looking for a quick fix or medicine to work right away and be a magic solution - I was just looking for help to be able to get through to her, this summer, small amounts of stable improvement - so that I could feel hopeful about our future success. What happened instead was great improvement in small time periods, followed by total deterioration (several times in a row - this is a pattern with her, you change something, she's baffled and is excellent for a bit, and then she adapts and her aggression comes through worse than before). Most recently late last week her newest adaptations to our management and behavior mod and medication resulted in her jumping up and clawing me on a daily basis, no matter what I did to stop it. And there is only so much of that a sane healthy person can take. At this point, despite all our great management (a 24/7 muzzle and a drag line), I can no longer prevent Pan from drawing blood from me on a regular basis, if she is to have a life worth living (that is a life not spent completely on a tether, or alone in our 2000 ft2 back yard). Because I don't want her to be miserable and alone outside (which results in her quickly deteriorating into basically a feral dog, because we have tried that), and because I don't want to get superficial wounds all over my body every day for up to a year while we continue to figure out the right combination of behavior modification and training (and which still may not even work), this is our decision. It's not an issue of keeping her from other people or dogs, or controlling her environment. She *wants* to be around us, we are her life, and she cannot stop hurting *us,* so there's really nothing left that I - not a dog expert - can do. I know it's not her fault, and I don't blame her, but I do not think I will ever get her to the point where Solo is. This is a dog who bites her owners, hates to be pet, will strike out at us if we touch her, and thinks we are constantly trying to steal her food. Also she is petrified of outside noises, and goes into fits over them, redirecting at us and pets... For other dogs, I think behaviorists and medication can be very successful; Dr. Haug has seen great success with many similar cases. But with Pan, as another poster said, I am going to try to think of what we are doing as giving her peace, and not feel too guilty: I love her too much to stay on this terrible rollercoaster ride with her anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlasl Posted July 20, 2009 Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 Joining all the others that have followed your story closely and I am sorry that you have to make such a tough decision. One that ultimately is bringing peace to Pan. I hope your heart heals quickly and know that you did everything you could, and so much more than many people would have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms.DaisyDuke Posted July 20, 2009 Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 I am incredibly saddened by this news. I was really hoping that everything would work out. As Melanie said, we can not always have those happy endings we wish for. Take this time you've spent with Pan and never forget the learning opportunity it became. It will come in handy one day, with another dog, or even your future children . You have done a lot more than others would have and I thank you for giving her a second chance. You did the best you could by her and that's all that matters. Remember that. julie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnewe2 Posted July 20, 2009 Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 Peace to you and peace to Pan. Take courage and comfort that you tried and gave the best you have for your dear Pan. I do hope you stay around, I feel as though I've learned so much with Pan's and your journey. You have added allot to this boards information for others searhing for help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BustopherJones Posted July 20, 2009 Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 You gave it your best shot. That's all anyone can ever do; Pan will wait for you at the Bridge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debbie Meier Posted July 20, 2009 Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 What happened instead was great improvement in small time periods, followed by total deterioration (several times in a row - this is a pattern with her, you change something, she's baffled and is excellent for a bit, and then she adapts and her aggression comes through worse than before). Pansmom, please find peace, I sincerely feel you did all you could do. The trainer I work with often says that until you get to the root of a problem, you will always come back full circle and each time you do the dog will be stronger, sorta like what you describe. You did all you could to get to the root of Pans problems, sometimes the root can not be pulled, demands to be heard and can not be masked or put at bay. Let tears of pain turn to tears of joy as you recall the good times that you have shared, you gave Pan the best of you. Deb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvw Posted July 20, 2009 Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 Pansmom, I am so very sorry for you. You tried harder than most people do in a lifetime. I once had a cat that was very similar to Pan. He just wasn't wired right. Outside comotion (he was an indoor cat) and loud noises would set him off in a crazed frenzy. Back then there wasn't much you could do to find help. He attacked several people and terrorized my other cat relentlessly. I didn't have the courage to do what I needed to do until he finally put my mom in the hospital. Luckily I worked for a vet at the time and she was kind enough to come to the house and end his mental suffering. It has been over ten years and it is only in the past two years that my other cat (who still lives with my mom) finally stopped acting traumatized. It was an unfair situation for all. Sometimes life is like that. Please don't feel guilty. She will find the peace she so desperately needs. Hugs Jennifer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurie S. Posted July 20, 2009 Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 I'm so sorry that this has to happen, but it is for the best for Pan and for you. She'll be free from her demons and that's a gift you're giving her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildFlower Posted July 20, 2009 Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 I too have read your story. I am deeply saddened that things have not improved for your family and Pan. I admire your dedication to trying to help Pan. I wish you and your husband strength during this difficult time. Pan will be waiting for you at the Bridge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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