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A situation arose where we might be having family with kids come live with us for an extended period. They are form out of state. How do you desensitize your dog to kids?

 

I am going to try to limit my dogs expose to the kids but she will have interaction with them.

Info on my girl:

-My dog has a high prey drive.

-Noise sensitive

-She also has some bad history with neighbor's kids during the critical period. (3months-1.2year old.) (My dad was trying to be helpful and let her out to potty while I was at school then he would forget about her. All in all the neighbors kid use to tease/torment her constantly.)

-Strong/physical correction(putting your hands on her) will make her more fearful in this situation.

 

She has gotten better with kids but she still doesn't trust them. And they easily excite her. Unless you keep a close eye on her she will try to nip.

 

I have no kids. My friends don't have kids either.

 

The kids that might be coming here are 5yo, 3yo, and 8 mon old.

 

Suggestion, thoughts, How did you handle it?

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[edited]

 

In all honesty, I don't like kids myself (yes, I have one ... he's 20 now). So if my dogs don't like kids, they make great kid repellent. If I need to, I just crate the ones that are uncomfortable around kids and don't make an issue of it. Probably not the most effective answer, but it works for me.

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I would use management, it is the fastest way to success.

 

One of my dogs loves my kids but doesn't tolerate other kids of any age, esp hugging ones. So I just tell anyone coming over they aren't allowed to touch that dog. If your dog doesn't like kids, it will avoid them. If the kids know they can't touch it (or toys or bowls), then all is well. But I know you can't tell an 8 month old. I would do my best to set them up for success.

 

Keep dog away from where kids are playing - use gates to keep both species safe.

Have a safe place for your dog, ie. crate or bedroom.

Don't leave any dog toys out or bowls, etc so there's no guarding. Keep an eye on leaving out kid toys that look like toys your dog uses.

Maybe a little more outside time for your dog while kids are inside, vice versa.

 

Dog comes first, it's YOUR house, so YOUR rules - don't let your dog get into a situation that could threaten anyone's well being (esp your dog). Also treat the situation as if your dog is a biter. It will make you and your adults guests much more diligent about following the rules of no contact. You can use the time of them living there to do the desensitization if you think it's necessary to your lifestyle.

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I'm just curious, but why is it that it seems everyone wants their dog to like everyone, like every dog, get along with every situation? Cheyenne is the most antisocial dog in the world, and she especially hates little kids. Do I have little kids at my house? Sure, and if it's a short time they will be here, I lock her up. If it's more long term, like a few nights, I tell them and their parents, she hates kids, she will eat them, she loves to bite them. (she has never bit before, but I like to really up the stakes) The fact is, she is who she is. She is good with grownups and there have been a few little kids she likes, but for the most part, they aggrevate her. She doesn't trust them, they fall, she doesn't like the way they pet her, they pull hair, and they don't usually share their cookies. I used to think, she needs to get over this crap, but then I had a thought. Why does she? I feel as long as a dog is not biting ME, the rest is just managed. It's not like she see's a kid and goes for the juglar, but even if she did, I would still just lock her up. If they bite me, they're gone, if they don't like someone else, she gets locked up till the annoyance is gone. But that is just my poser opinion. :rolleyes:

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Oh good - a question about something my dog is really, really good at :rolleyes:

 

My dog is fantastic with children, whether it's pre-teens kicking soccer balls at him or 5 month olds rolling around and mouthing his paws. However, when children he doesn't know, or babies in particular are around I always watch him and them very carefully. If the children are nervous of him, or he's too excited in the moment, I have him lay down by me - sometimes on leash - until he adjusts to the new additions and can calmly meet and ineract. For some kids who are terrified, or allergic, he is recalled every time he goes to meet them. I've had him fully disengaged with a single person after several recalls even though he's free to roam.

 

Now, the difference is my dog loves kids and he's grown up with my children who were 4 and 7 when we got him so we taught him at the school grounds and at home to be gentle, but other people's children are less predictable (especially if they don't know dog etiquette) and babies can easily hurt or startle a dog by grabbing fur too hard.

 

Typically dogs who understand children and like them are not as reactive to them, but if your dog has no exposure to children regularly and especially if she's had a bad experience in the past I think you'll need to act on behalf of your house guests and be sure that the children and parents are very clear on the rules - no touch, no eye contact and no rough housing in the presence of the dog. If she is protected from them she will hopefully get accostomed to their presence without fearing them. Provide her a safe spot - ie: your room, where she can go when she's stressed or to give her a safe place when it's just too rowdy for her. Perhaps limit the time she's in their presence for the first week or so, gradually give her more time to adjust and take her to her safe space when she gets too excited. If you can get her to lay down and relax while the kids are in a neighboring room, reward her. If you can get her to do it in the same room as they sit quietly or watch tv even better. I wouldn't correct her at all, just reward or remove. After all, she's not trying to be bad, she's just showing she's nervous.

 

I had an older Pomeranian when my kids were really little and I also babysat and she wasn't fond of kids in general. She would always hide in her kennel when the kids ran around screaming, but she'd jump up and join them for nap time. I hope things work out for everyone, but personally I would focus on the safety of the kids and your dog first and foremost.

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Have a safe place for your dog, ie. crate or bedroom.

And make sure everyone in the house knows the kids are NEVER allowed to tease your dogs while they are in their crates or bang on the door if they are in a bedroom. I wouldn't even allow the kids to walk up to the crate if it were me.

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When I said extended period its might be over a year they will be with us.

 

:D I already claim the garage as mine space NO KIDS WILL BE ALLOWED. Its a two car garage that was converted into a very large room. So she will have "her" space.

 

It the interaction she WILL have with the kids I am worry about.

 

When they came for a visit I had her stay with a friend for the most part. She was home the last two day they were here. The kids were told leave her alone and that she will bite(she hasn't). The 3yo then tried to poke her fingers in the x-pen which I physically had to blocked twice!!! Cressa just sat there and gave the kid the look. When I let the dogs outside to potty the 5yo came running out. Had to give a sharp LEAVE IT to my dog :D thank doG for frisbees :D and then I had to grab the 5yo when he started to charge/run straight at my dog.

 

Dixie Girl: I am not asking her to love kids or to like them. I just want her to tolerate them/No nipping, eyeing, no going for the jugular, :rolleyes: no planning ways to kill them, etc... heck i don't like kids much and I still have to tolerate them!

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Maybe crate training for the kids? :rolleyes: I understand now. Well, that will be hard if your description of the kids is an indication of their ability to leave her alone! Maybe you could start with the 5yr old and take him/her with you on a walk, dog on one side of you, kid on the other. Then work up to letting the kid throw a ball, or a treat. If she isn't getting vicious with the kids, just being around them might help, in a controled invironment of course. It might work, but I strongly suggest getting the kids worn out first. They seem to accept direction better after a good work out!

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When I said extended period its might be over a year they will be with us.

 

When they came for a visit I had her stay with a friend for the most part. She was home the last two day they were here. The kids were told leave her alone and that she will bite(she hasn't). The 3yo then tried to poke her fingers in the x-pen which I physically had to blocked twice!!! Cressa just sat there and gave the kid the look. When I let the dogs outside to potty the 5yo came running out. Had to give a sharp LEAVE IT to my dog :rolleyes: thank doG for frisbees :D and then I had to grab the 5yo when he started to charge/run straight at my dog.

 

I think what you did was exactly right. After all, no one, kids or dogs, will understand the rules right away that's why it may take some time before they can 'safely' be in a room together. But vigilence and action are absolutely ok. If the children were going for your stove - or the STEREO! - you'd react quickly and firmly until they were trustworthy and even then you'd have to be cautious.

 

Hopefully the parents will be equally vigilant. I have a friend who breeds a small breed dog so there are always nippy moms or delicate babes around as well as her children and their friends. In her house the dogs are protected from the children and the children have strict rules of conduct. As the kids learn the rules they get greater freedom with the dogs - but boy is she firm when the kids cross the line! She needs to protect both parties so don't feel bad if you have to be harsh, it's a serious lesson with potentially serious consequences.

 

As for your dog, I still believe that if the introduction is carefully monitored at the beginning and your dog learns to feel safe when the kids are in the house you will not need to worry the whole year about it, they'll start to accept her presence without constantly going for her (or him) and your dog will relax, but you'll likely always need close supervision or seperation just due to the children's young age - I don't envy you that as it is sure to be constant. If you're helping this family out you are amazing indeed. All the best!

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That's very tough!

 

I agree that the biggest challenge isn't setting the rules, it's getting the kids to follow them. I am approached frequently by kids who ask if they can pat my dog. If it's more than one, I always say, "Just one at a time. He's very scared." I'd guess that 60% of the time, two or more kids completely disregard what I said and approach together, hands outstretched, with that creepy high-pitched child voice ("Doggie! Doggie!") and freak my dog out completely. He's never bitten, but I don't put it past him, if he gets cornered and surrounded by what to him seem like aliens!

 

I think it will be even more difficult if you try to teach the kids how to approach sensibly. Seems to me that any normal five- and three-year-old, upon having one carefully-managed, successful interaction will assume that they then have permission to have interactions, period. If I were five, I'd have been trying to sneak interactions, because I completely loved dogs, and because when parents aren't around, rules went bye-bye. (That was absolutely true in my childhilld, and I suspect it's absolutely true nowadays, no matter how much parents try to believe otherwise. Of course, I wouldn't have reported a dog bite that happened if I was breaking the rules - which could make things even worse!)

 

Will the parents fully enforce, or are they a bit more laissez-faire? Honestly, if I'd never seen any sign of aggression from a dog, it would be hard for me to be vigilant all the time. A year or more is a very long time, and it seems hard to imagine keeping the dog and the kids separate for that long, especially if the parents are kind of relaxed about the whole thing.

 

More vexing to me, though, is the notion of having a family with three kids move in with ME for more than a year! Yeesh! I think I might bite one of them.

 

Mary

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When I said extended period its might be over a year they will be with us.

 

:D I already claim the garage as mine space NO KIDS WILL BE ALLOWED. Its a two car garage that was converted into a very large room. So she will have "her" space.

 

It the interaction she WILL have with the kids I am worry about.

 

When they came for a visit I had her stay with a friend for the most part. She was home the last two day they were here. The kids were told leave her alone and that she will bite(she hasn't). The 3yo then tried to poke her fingers in the x-pen which I physically had to blocked twice!!! Cressa just sat there and gave the kid the look. When I let the dogs outside to potty the 5yo came running out. Had to give a sharp LEAVE IT to my dog :D thank doG for frisbees :D and then I had to grab the 5yo when he started to charge/run straight at my dog.

 

Dixie Girl: I am not asking her to love kids or to like them. I just want her to tolerate them/No nipping, eyeing, no going for the jugular, :rolleyes: no planning ways to kill them, etc... heck i don't like kids much and I still have to tolerate them!

 

I'm sorry I have nothing to add to this thread, but I am surprised and pleased to know that I'm not the only one who is allergic to kids. Parents with kids think their little dumplings are just the most precious things in the world, and don't understand that *I*DON"T*LIKE*THEM*. There are good and plenty reasons why I didn't have them. My dogs ARE my kids, but society doesn't respect that.

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Wow what a tough situation......

 

Initially I would say management would be the first thing I would do, but you really cannot keep kids and a dog seperate for an entire year. Frankly I would have a very frank talk with the parents. determine together out what you can do if the kids do not immediately obey a "do not" request (an immediate time out is appropriate for the 5 and 3yo old IMO).

 

As for the dog, management at first as all are getting used to the new situation. After that I would depending on the severity of the dogs issue (if it is a fear issue I would work on it if it was an undying hatred I am not sure what I would do), under lots of supervision, have the older kids sit down on the floor and very camly call her to them and have them feed her treats.

 

Also if your dog loves frisbee and ball, having the older kids throw a ball or frisbee for her could be a good way for her to see that kids can be a source of fun not just fear.

 

In most situations with dogs and kids it is the kids that need the direction and not the dogs.......

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So if my dogs don't like kids, they make great kid repellent.

 

:rolleyes:

 

I have furry kid repellent, too. Unfortunately, they aren't always as effective as I would like, though.

 

I deal with this issue during holidays. My bf's family pretty much expects us to come for a visit either during Thanksgiving or Christmas every year. It has turned what used to be very pleasant holidays into something that I dread every year. None of my dogs particularly care for young kids. Milo and Charlie pretty much just stress, but will otherwise tolerate them. Charlie stresses out more than Milo. Skittles is completely freaked out by kids. He has fear issues in general with strangers, but kids really stress him out. It's a management nightmare, especially because my bf's family has absolutely NO experience or understanding of dogs and between all the brothers and sisters (6 of them), there are about 8-10 kids, and most are in the 3-7 year old age range. None of the kids have ever been schooled on the proper way to act around dogs, which doesn't help matters one bit. It's Skittles' nightmare realized. The way I handle it is to just manage the situation to keep dogs and kids separate as best as I can. I try to instruct the kids on what not to do with or around the dogs, but it mostly goes in one ear and out the other. So, I make it my responsibility to protect my dogs and make sure there are no mishaps. I wouldn't put it past Skittles to bite a kid, if he were stressed out enough.

 

It's tough for me because we are at my bf's parents' house. But, if it were my house, I would make certain areas of the house off limits to guests and that would be where I'd keep the dogs whenever I wasn't there to supervise. I do something similar with foster dogs. I have a baby gate that blocks the hallway that leads back to the bedrooms and my office. Foster dogs are not allowed to go beyond the baby gate. That area is strictly reserved for my personal dogs and their humans. I think this has helped cut the tension for my dogs having to deal with a constant influx of new dogs all the time. They have a place to go that is all their own where they don't have to deal with foster dogs, if they don't want to. All three of my dogs, but especially Skittles, spend most of their time behind the baby gate (their choice) and I think they are grateful to have their own special safe place to go.

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This is probably pretty obvious, but the one thing that I would do is make very very VERY clear to the parents of these children that while you will do your best to manage your dogs, the possibility exists that the dogs will bite the kids. And it is up to the parents to manage their kids as much as, if not more than, it is up to you to manage the dogs. Make it abundantly clear that if something bad does happen you won't automatically accept that the fault lies with your dogs.

 

In all honesty, I don't like kids myself (yes, I have one ... he's 20 now).

 

This reminds me of a conversation I had with my mom a few years back. I'm the youngest of five children and my mom was a speech therapist for the local school district. She had been contemplating a career change but wasn't really sure what she wanted. I suggested that maybe she should consider teaching as a possibility. She looked at me and said "Mary, I don't really like children." Flabbergasted, I said "Mom, you had FIVE of us!" Her response? "Well, I liked you guys." Heh.

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I'm sorry I have nothing to add to this thread, but I am surprised and pleased to know that I'm not the only one who is allergic to kids. Parents with kids think their little dumplings are just the most precious things in the world...

 

I'm a teacher, and I certainly back you on that!

 

One of the things that stupefies me constantly is that normal, intelligent adults - adults who lied to their parents when they were kids, who did stupid things and got punished - consistently believe their little dumplings when they lie to get out of trouble. "My child will NOT serve that detention! He says he's not the one who threw the eraser!"

 

Well... duh! Of course your child says that. Otherwise, he has to admit that he did something stupid, and you're clearly not equipped to believe that about your child. Somehow, your child (the genetic offspring of people who remember doing far dumbasser things than throwing erasers when they were young) is the ONLY PERFECT CHILD EVER BORN.

 

::SIGH::

 

That's why I would really worry about having kids move in. Honestly, my experience with parental responsibility hasn't inspired confidence in me that these parents will monitor their children and take responsibility for their actions. And I can't imagine any modern parent not blaming the dog for biting little Dumpling, even if little Dumpling were pulling the dog's whiskers. Seems that we live in blame-blame-blame society, and responsibility is little taken into account. The dog always gets labeled "vicious" and usually put down.

 

Any chance these people can move into your house and you can rent a tiny studio until they move out? :rolleyes:

 

Mary

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okay...so i don't have kids and i don't have my dog...yet...but i just finished reading a book, "understanding border collies" by barbara sykes...a very good read...here's my 2 cents...take it for what it's worth...you're making a good start with the garage as the dog's "personal space"...your dog has a safe place where he/she can feel relaxed and un-anxious...and then comes the hard part...especially for young kids...you need to educate the kids AND the parents on proper dog etiquette...of course, children can be a little more unpredictable...who knows?...maybe the family will come to have a better appreciation for dogs...

 

and i have to agree, why is it that people expect dogs to like everyone?...they have their preferences...there are people i like and people i don't like...why should a dog be any different?...

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After reading all of this I have a couple of Qs and a comment.

 

After raising 3 kids with BCs I don't understand what is the deal with kids and BCs. I've never had a problem with them although Surra and Bas would growl when the kids laid on them. Nothing ever happened.

 

As for how to serve kids to the dogs so there are no problems I think Dog Nabi is the answer. For that you need 3 children 2-5yrs old, 1lb carrots, potatos, tomatos, onions, garlic, 6 cups water and some salt and pepper. Mix all and boil in a pot. Serve to the dogs when cool. :rolleyes:

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Mine have always been great and enjoyed the kids as a source of entertainment. After all, kids are easily suckered into playing and romping.

The ones that have not been (two rescues) are/where simply managed. With all people. Not just kids.

 

No need to repeat all the great advice like crating, talking to the parents etc.

 

Depending on the kids and how they are managed by their parents maybe you can get the older one involved in "training" your dog. Maybe have her "help" you throw a ball. "Teach" your dog to sit or down for a ball. One, with some luck your girl will not think of all kids as terrible beings. Two, you may be passing a passion on to the kids that will accompany them for the rest of their life. As well as making them proud of "helping" train a dog and as such it could be easier to make them tune and clue into the whole respect thing. Obviously, everything under very strict control of kids and dogs. I would however not do it without the parents involvement to a degree. So that everyone is on board and knows the goal of the whole exercise. A whole year is a long time and could certainly test everyones patience and nerves.

 

I have no kids, they are aliens to me, but I rarely have met one that I did not like on their own account. Now how they where raised - that is a different story. Same goes for most dogs I meet. I rarely meet one I can't stand. And if I do, I can pretty much trace most of it back to the owner

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This is probably pretty obvious, but the one thing that I would do is make very very VERY clear to the parents of these children that while you will do your best to manage your dogs, the possibility exists that the dogs will bite the kids. And it is up to the parents to manage their kids as much as, if not more than, it is up to you to manage the dogs. Make it abundantly clear that if something bad does happen you won't automatically accept that the fault lies with your dogs.

This was my first thought. Are the parents on board with your rules regarding the dogs? Are they willing to enforce your rules at all times? I can't imagine a worse situation than having house guests with children when the parents are unwilling to enforce the rules you set forth for child interaction with your dogs. I would seriously consider some sort of written contract to that effect. It may not hold up in any court, but it would at least make clear to everyone that you are serious about how your dog(s) will be handled. I have found that most dogs will tolerate children reasonably well, or at least just get out of the way, as long as the children are made to behave properly around the dog.

 

In other words, I don't think that the burden necessarily lies with you to train your dog to tolerate kids but rather with the adults to teach the kids how to behave around the dog (including just leaving the dog alone). If the kids are well-behaved around the dog, then the dog isn't likely to take issue with them in the first place, and in fact it might help her to get over her bad early experiences with children. But of course this approach really relies on the parents to do their part, and to do so consistently.

 

Another option I would consider is to divide the house into dog and child zones. I would think that life would be easier for everyone, since this is sort of a forced situation, if there were areas where the visitors simply weren't allowed to go and also areas where you don't go (their private spaces). This can be achieved with baby gates, and then when you can't be around to supervise, Cressa could be crated in a room in your private area, with baby gates in place to keep children out of the room.

 

For the garage, I would get in the habit of always locking any door with access to the garage and make sure I was the only person who had a key. That way you don't have to worry about an unlocked door and a moment's inattention by a parent ending up in disaster for a child and the dog.

 

J.

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OK, let me get this straight. You don't like kids. Your dog doesn't like kids. With you so far - neither Faith nor I have much use for them either. So -

 

Why might you and your dog have to put up with three small children living in your house for a year?

 

*shudders at the very thought*

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My theory is that to get dogs to like kids better kids have to mean food. The dogs also have to have an outlet for their own time and space.

 

That said my son was accidently bitten at the rescue by one of my parents dogs it's a really bad scratch/ bruise and torn pants.

 

It turns out that my son was playing a game of hose attack with my dads dog and when he went to run in a different direction the dog tried to preserve his game by grabbing Nick by the pants knocking him down and then pouncing on him for good measure. I saw it so I knew what happened I just didnt know what precipitated it.

 

Guess who got in trouble both of them. Rye was yelled at first and then Nick was scolded for amping him up.

 

There is no point in not teaching the kids dog safety too. If you ignore warnings or do something stupid you will get bit. While your injury will recieve proper care and sympathy for the pain you will also be told why you deserved it.

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I would love some kid repellent, if anyone has some. :rolleyes: I do like my little cousins and my older cousins' children, but other people's screaming kids? No way. Polite children with parents who are actively teaching them how to behave are fine, but it seems that in society these days too many parents are afraid to say "no."

 

I still haven't figured out why, but several of my dogs are magnets for children and very good with them, despite my own discomfort. One dog in particular is great with autistic kids. Go figure. He is very thoughtful with them, gentle and forgiving of their sometimes loud, strange behavior. I sure didn't teach him to be that way.

 

One of my dogs doesn't like kids, but he doesn't like puppies either. Both are loud and don't yet know how to be polite members of society. Being a very proper dog he can't stand rude behavior.

 

I agree with what others are saying. Why do dogs (or people) have to like everyone? If these kids are going to live with you then you need to talk to their parents and let them know that the dogs were there first. You agree to manage the dogs, but the parents must manage the kids. The dogs need a part of the house that is 100% child free where they can retreat for some peace and quiet.

 

Desert Ranger, some Border Collies are great with kids and some can't stand them. Also, some BCs are fine with their own kids but don't like strange children. I don't think that is odd at all. I certainly don't like every person or every dog that I meet and screaming, out of control children drive me crazy.

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One of my dogs doesn't like kids, but he doesn't like puppies either.

 

Skittles hates puppies, too. I sense a theme.

 

Actually, none of my dogs really cares for puppies. They each tolerate puppies at about the same level as they tolerate small kids. Milo would prefer that puppies go away, but he tolerates them. Charlie is a little less tolerant and I have to police his interaction with them. Skittles wishes that all puppies would die and his interaction with them is very heavily managed.

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I let my dog who doesn't like kids or pups interact with both. The kids are not allowed to touch him, but they can throw a toy or make him do tricks. When he has had enough he walks away and I make sure the kids don't follow him. (He has NEVER tried to bite a kid, he just grumbles and walks away.) I also let him interact with puppies. He gives very clear signals, including growls, lip lifts and snaps when he has had enough. The difference between kids and pups, of course, is that society is ok with a dog snapping at a pup to let is know that it is being obnoxious, but not at a child. This particular dog is excellent at teaching puppies great dog manners and I use him for that very purpose.

 

annoying puppies

attackFlyboy-1.jpg

 

telling annoying puppies to go away

growlyface.jpg

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