Tell me this video doesn't make you angry

[Izzysdad]

 

Tim

[desertranger]

I have a hard time even beloieveing she knows anything about BCs.

 

Would like to shoot both of them.

[bcnewe2]

I watched both videos, it doesn't make me angry just tells you how many stupid people are out there. The second one wasn't that bad. Just a guy that don't know much but at least he's not tooting conformation as the working breed.

 

So to lighten up the mood I found this one from one of the clips that they post after the videos.

Pretty funny!

 

[bc4ever]

I watched both videos, it doesn't make me angry just tells you how many stupid people are out there. The second one wasn't that bad. Just a guy that don't know much but at least he's not tooting conformation as the working breed.

 

So to lighten up the mood I found this one from one of the clips that they post after the videos.

Pretty funny!

 

That was funny!

[jdarling]

Here's Ms. Laskowski's website. 'Nuff said.

[Root Beer]

So to lighten up the mood I found this one from one of the clips that they post after the videos.

Pretty funny!

 

 

That was funny! I loved the look on the dog's faces!! They were perfect for the part!!

[WildFlower]

Makes me a bit queasy....

[Brad]

Here's Ms. Laskowski's website. 'Nuff said.

 

My favorite

 

Sprint has proven himself in the United States and will go down in border collie history. He has been among the top producing stud dogs in the United States the last 3 years.

[jdarling]

CH Borderfame Choc Chill, ROM, CGC, HIC

 

He has produced many champions, and border collies that are versatile and can do it all. Sprint has a wonderful temperment, sound structure and is a gorgeous dog. He produces color - gold, chocolate, and black.

 

Can do it all? Do what? "HIC" ... is that "Herding Instinct Certificate"? Last I checked, that's not even a title. But if he's a prestigious stud dog, it must mean "Herding Imaginary Creatures"! Yeah yeah. "Herding In Color" perhaps? "Herding in Circles"? No no ... I know what it is! Silly me. "Herding Instinct Champion"!!!

[bcnewe2]

I get what you guys are talking about

But I also think it's a waste of breath to keep talking/bashing about people like that on this board. It's like preaching to the choir.

This lady has been doing what she does for quite some time. Us bi**ching about it won't change a thing.

 

Getting out there and educating the new people would be time much better spent.

 

Sure wish they'd adopt the name Barbie Collie and wear it in the manner that they should, Barbie Proud! Then at least this war could end/change. But that's gonna be a cold day in he**.

 

JMHO

[jdarling]

Getting out there and educating the new people would be time much better spent.

 

Whew. For a second there, I almost thought you were implying that we're not already out there doing that every chance we get. I'm glad I misread that.

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

Crap.

 

About.com approached me many years ago to write their Border Collie article. It was when I was recovering from the car accident and I wasn't at that time even sure we'd be able to keep the farm. I just couldn't. Still, makes me mad thinking about it.

 

I love how when she's talking about what you can "do" with them "Besides conformation" - she pauses and mentions "herding" as an afterthought, after frisbee, agility, flyball, obedience, tracking etc.

[bcnewe2]

I'm glad I misread that

 

Ok maybe I mis wrote it. Point taken

 

eta...Yeah Becca, that really is to bad. Is that one of our problems? No one wants to take on the stupid media or Joe Shmo public? I know I sure don't. It's always out there to be mis-represented or taken out of context.

 

Ms Lawcowski is probably relishing in her fame, much less the publicity it brought her.

 

Ok....Jodi....beat me with a wet noodle but don't hurt me. I need my health to keep working the dogs!

[kajarrel]

I love how when she's talking about what you can "do" with them "Besides conformation" - she pauses and mentions "herding" as an afterthought, after frisbee, agility, flyball, obedience, tracking etc.

 

Yes, I caught that too. And, here you have a real "herding dog" breed that is actually currently used for its original function, and none of the dogs in the background are doing anything remotely r/t that function. I guess one way of looking at this is that there's no attempt here to pretend that conformation breeders really care about "herding ability," but on the other hand what are those dogs (if not defined by herding)?

 

 

Kim

[Eileen Stein]

Is that one of our problems? No one wants to take on the stupid media or Joe Shmo public?

 

No, I don't think that's our problem. I'm sure many of us, if given that opportunity, would have taken it (or would at least have recommended someone else qualified to do it if we couldn't).

 

There's more than one problem, but I think probably the biggest is that, for most people, AKC is the authority on dogs, period. I don't know what about.com is, or how widely it's known and used, but I know that most media wanting to do a piece on dogs of any kind will just contact the AKC , and go no further than whatever expert/expertise AKC offers. And something like this is what AKC would have offered, or maybe did offer.

[Amelia]

Sprint is my foundation for my breeding program. He is truly a once in a lifetime dog! Sprint has proven himself in the United States and will go down in border collie history. He has been among the top producing stud dogs in the United States the last 3 years. He has produced many champions, and border collies that are versatile and can do it all. Sprint has a wonderful temperment, sound structure (huh??) and is a gorgeous dog. He produces color - gold, chocolate, and black. Sprint is everything I want in a border collie!

 

Sprint was neutered June 2007 due to perienel hernias. I had to neuter him to avoid multiple problems and future hernias. After 2 very costly surgery's he has made a full recovery and will now enjoy his retirement. I am so proud of everything he as accomplished and look forward to his offspring contributing to the breed as much as he has!

 

Ms. HotShot Border collie is looking forward to his offspring contributing hernias? Multiple hernias are the foundation of her breeding program? A dog that presents "multiple problems" is everything she wants in a border collie?

 

These people are nuts! Even HotShot's paint mare is deformed. Just check her out from the knees down. Horse's legs are supposed to be straight, people! I'm sure she's not only kennel-blind, but stable-blind as well and you know that she's bred that mare. Ok, now I'm going nuts.

 

You kill a snake by cutting off it's head. I agree that it's not useful to snipe about individuals as I have done here, so let's go after the AKC.

 

Cheers all,

[Amelia]

And another thing; if you want to imagine a glaring example of "multiple problems" just trying imagining actually using that mare for 1 day to gather wild cattle in rough country. Her resulting inability to propel herself forward would bring tears to your eyes!

[flyer]

Not in defense of either of these vid's posted, especially the first one, but I think it is very difficult to give a clear picture of a border collie and what it takes to own one successfully if you have not spent a lot of time with one.

 

I researched like crazy before getting Colt. I had heard so much negativity from other people about BC's. Not from BC owners, mind you, but people who knew BC owners and they all had a horror story. It was daunting. This board was very helpful and probably came closest to what it is actually like with these dogs. That said having a BC in the family has been much more of everything that I was expecting and then something much more that I had no way of knowing was coming and I have had numerous dogs all my life since the age of four.

 

I knew I had become a BC owner the day I had four month old Colt in the park and a man with a small, unruly, untrained schnauzer said to me, "that's the dog I should have got", pointing to Colt. "He is so smart and listens to everything you say." I immediately said, "No, actually, he is a lot of dog and I work with him constantly so that he will listen. He needs a lot of training to be safe because he has so much energy and he needs to work to stay happy." (I didn't mention how easy he has been to train)

 

I realized I was feeling very protective of the breed, which is what I encountered from many posters when I first posted on this board. I get it now. I see the extreme joy of working together, the absolute devotion to family, and the remarkable sensitivity of the BC. The sensitivity is the part that most makes we want to say, unless this dog will be your partner do not get a BC.

 

The best saying I have ever heard about BC's is they are not just a dog they are a way of life. So far, raising Colt has proved this to be true and I couldn't be happier about it.

[jdarling]

Kristen, believe me. I get what you're saying. I am a nag around here. I nag the open handlers to support the novices constantly. I beg them to put on novice trials and provide them with as much help as I can, I arrange lessons for some of the novice students with the big hats, we're putting on clinics and instinct tests and demos and fun days and whatever else we can come up with to educate and entice the novices. (I don't mean to say that the open handlers around here aren't willing to support the novices -- oh contrere ... they are very supportive. They also have very busy schedules, and let's just say I don't stop buggin' em.)

 

But seriously ... how do you educate the people who judge the Border Collie on the ridiculous traits they are breeding for ... i.e. coat type and color and tipped ears and straight backs and a flying gate and a cute demeanor that is supposed to tolerate every man, woman, child, dog, puppy, rabbit, whathaveyou grabbing on to its tail or trying to hump it and it is just supposed to stand there and look stupid. How do you tell these people who think they are building a working dog from the outside in that they don't have a CLUE what they are talking about ... and an HIC doesn't prove a thing? Nor does an AKC "herding" championship or any of the other ridiculous titles they can concoct. Where do you start? Sign me up!

[bcnewe2]

Well Jodi

Knowing we're different kinds of people

I start with one at a time.

I have turned quite a few ACK people into people that now have at least a more open mind. First I dispel the myth that our "weird working dog" are hyper, or crazy by letting them see mine lazing around the house or where ever when not at work. I let my overly friendly non ack dogs enjoy bugging them for love for a bit, as our dogs have reputations of being mean and not social. I put Mick up if they have a dog that he's going to have to teach manners to, don't want it known that my dog can beat up their honor roll dog! I use my own dogs as conversation starters all the time. If I can't use mine I'll use their's in a non threatening way. Asking questions inocently that I know thay have no answers for or are going to end up making their breeding programs look questionable. But all the while with a smile on my face and really I mean a smile not a smirk. I've been told I have the gift of gab, I quit letting that insult me and have tried to learn how to make that work for me!

 

I have an ACK friend who came down and spent some time with me, she was amazed that my dogs never bothered me when we weren't working. Her dogs on the other hand were all over the place needing to be told what to do and when to do it. When she left she had a whole new idea about these "crazy" other bc's.

I try not to bash their dogs while we are together, granted I might have to say a few things after they are gone but I know I have a much better chance getting them to listen to me if I'm nice rather than mean. Not that I think you're mean, blunt might be a better word

I don't let peoples uneducated choices about their dogs be reason for me to not like them. I rarely don't like anyone! If someone ends up not liking me, I try not to be insulted just move on to the next person I can work on changing the mind set.

 

It really is like Eileen said, where most jo-shmo people take ACK as the offical right type dogs. How can they know different unless we enlighten them.

Look at PETA, isn't that the same, the misinformation out there can do tons in convincing people PETA is helping animals. If we scream about it being different ro bad eveyone will think we're the nuts. But if we teach with a smile, kindness and truths, we might get somehwere. I can't imagine that all the stars that are behind PETA really know what they represent but PETA is very good at convincing people that they are right. It's marketing at it's finest even if it is sickening. Same with ACK

 

 

I talk to anyone I come in contact with about the differences in breeding for form instead of breeding for function. Not just border collie people, I’ll talk to anyone! Usually I can point out problems with their own dog(s) in a nice way that makes them at least start thinking about it. I wear my Darwin’s worst nightmare shirt proudly and it starts conversations all the time.

 

Jazz and I were at a massage class last weekend. There was a BYB there with her hyper year old lab that had already been bred. I politely asked her if she bred on purpose and why she wanted to promote her breed. I also was able to ask in a non threatening manner what her dogs were contributing to the gene pool. she was speechless but not mad. After class, she was the first to leave(ok so maybe I put her on the spot but she didn't hit me or glare daggers at me) so that gave the rest of the class time to talk about breeding and why it's not a good idea. I was able to use my old Jazzy girl as an example of what poor breeding can end up like. Jazz didn't know I was insulting her, all she knew is she got the rub of her life!

 

I think what you are doing is way more than what I've been able to do. Getting out there doing demos, promoting clinics and novice trials like you do is wonderful, but the people that need changing are not at the events you are helping put on. Yes you are educating the new dog folks but sadly (through no fault of your own) not reforming the old ones.

So I suggest getting out there in the crowd that you don't like and sweet talking them into helping you. Either with a dog that they currently own which in the end won't be able to help and they might start to question what they were originally taught or letting them work a dog that you own that is stable enough to take green noobs working them. I have 2 dogs that will work for anyone and I've taken the time to let them work with people like that. That could be why we are such miserable trialers. But trialing is not on my hot to do list at the moment just because of all that I have going on in my "other" life.

 

My friend that was strictly ACK was able to work one of my dogs, doing something she never could have done with hers. Holding sheep while worming and separating ewes that didn’t need worming from those that did. It was eye opening for her. My dog thought it was just another day on the farm. This friend is now looking to get a "real" dog and has left her old ways in the dust. Still devoted to her dogs, but not going to do a repeat breeding or buying another ACK dog.

 

Again, what you do is heavy in educating the public that is looking for better ways and new comers, I commend you for doing so. But I'm in a situation that I can't do what you're doing so I take it one person at a time.

 

What I was posting about was the idea that complaining on here about what we already know, only makes us look like whiners.

I like Amelia’s idea about attacking ACK directly, I'll stand behind her or get on the first bus to help, but I don't have it in me to wage that battle as a leader, only to help fight it.

Eileen made me rethink my idea of hiding from the public with public statements or helping in the forefront with ways that I can. I worry that I open my mouth and things come out that can later be misrepresented in a manner that I didn't mean. (who me? talk to much?)

 

SO I'm doing my part, one person at time. The best I can do!

 

Keep fighting the fight, you are making a difference. Just smile when you do it! Even if you have to stand upside down to make your frown into a smile.

And that's all I have to say about that!

 

ETA ok one more thing...I'm not a clicker trainer of my dogs by choice but guess you could call me a clicker trainer when it comes to getting people to change their minds about breeding for form instead of function.

[Izzysdad]

One way to help I think is to maybe join a BC resuce league and hopefully they do information booths at fairs and such. Border collies do need a job and if they don't get one they become self-employed and that's where the bad rap comes in.

 

I just about fell over when I saw her standing outside that stupid ring.

 

Tim

[bcnewe2]

Tim I wasn't bashing you for posting. Just stating my opinion and we know what that's like! I was just trying to lighten the mood with my original repsonse.

We all get enraged at this crazyness when we first start out. Some of us just stay that way and it makes us crabby! Some of us figure out ways to do something without staying enraged!

Yes I think you have a great idea, go for it!

[jdarling]

Kristen,

 

I appreciate the input. Yes, I agree we are completely different people with different approaches to it all. And if you have the patience to do what you mentioned there, more power to you! I'd end up in the looney bin.

 

Asking questions inocently that I know thay have no answers for or are going to end up making their breeding programs look questionable. But all the while with a smile on my face and really I mean a smile not a smirk.

 

I've never been good at passive aggressive.

 

I don't let peoples uneducated choices about their dogs be reason for me to not like them.

 

Neither do I.

 

I rarely don't like anyone!

 

I don't like people in general. If I smile when I say that, does it help?

 

... but the people that need changing are not at the events you are helping put on.

 

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

 

So I suggest getting out there in the crowd that you don't like and sweet talking them into helping you.

 

It's hard enough to convince the ones that say they're into it to help!

 

Either with a dog that they currently own which in the end won't be able to help ...

 

Ok ... can I borrow your sheep?

 

My friend that was strictly ACK was able to work one of my dogs, doing something she never could have done with hers. Holding sheep while worming and separating ewes that didn’t need worming from those that did. It was eye opening for her. My dog thought it was just another day on the farm. This friend is now looking to get a "real" dog and has left her old ways in the dust. Still devoted to her dogs, but not going to do a repeat breeding or buying another ACK dog.

 

Yes, there are quite a few of these. In fact, I think most of us probably started with registering a dog ACK. Unfortunately, this is one step too late. Like you said, it's rehabbing the ones that are already involved ... not doing anything to nip it in the bud before it gets started. The ACK already made money from this person by the time they got to you (or me or whoever).

 

I like Amelia’s idea about attacking ACK directly, I'll stand behind her or get on the first bus to help, but I don't have it in me to wage that battle as a leader, only to help fight it.

 

I'm happy to drive the bus. I just need to know where I'm going. I don't see a useful destination. But I'll happily swing by and pick you up if you have any ideas.

[Izzysdad]

onuote name='bcnewe2' date='Jul 1 2009, 05:46 PM' post='309178']

Tim I wasn't bashing you for posting. Just stating my opinion and we know what that's like! I was just trying to lighten the mood with my original repsonse.

We all get enraged at this crazyness when we first start out. Some of us just stay that way and it makes us crabby! Some of us figure out ways to do something without staying enraged!

Yes I think you have a great idea, go for it!

 

Huh? I never thought you were in fact I don't think I ever read your post! Someone mentioned that people should get the word out and I was trying to respond to that!

 

Kind of funny, Izzy is here trying to help me type. It's taken twice as long for to type this as it should! hahahaha

 

Tim

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

It's my opinion that it's necessary to use opportunities like this video and breeder websites like Hot Shot, to point out where they stray from the mission of this board, and the goals of responsible breeding.

 

Remember that for everyone who posts here, there's a ton of people visiting and lurking silently. This fact should inform those who want to give public information like the video and website, a pass in the interest of instilling an atmosphere of sweetness and light here.

 

BUT, I believe we should keep those lurkers in mind when we react to such information. We don't want to look like sore losers. We don't have to water down our message - what I try to do is simply address what people do, not the people themselves. So far I don't think this discussion has gone there (can't really remember - nothing jumped out at me, anyway).