Mark Billadeau Posted September 28, 2010 Report Share Posted September 28, 2010 A few of us are working behinds the scenes with Dr. Neff to help him find additional BAER testers located around the country which will facilitate holding more free BAER/sample collection clinics at trials. Right now samples are the limiting factor in all of his research (deafness, epilepsy, cancer, and possibly CHD), money is not an issue since all these canine diseases have human conterparts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz P Posted September 28, 2010 Report Share Posted September 28, 2010 Do you think he could make arrangements with vet schools around the country to have them do BAER testing at no charge to the owners? I am within driving distance of one and would be happy to do that. Although my dogs are normals they have relatives who lost their hearing. That is interesting to know that he believes it is a simple recessive. To me that means the gene must be much more prevalent than I originally thought. Not good news for the breed, unless a genetic test can be developed. Any idea how long we will have to wait for that test? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurae Posted September 28, 2010 Report Share Posted September 28, 2010 Do you think he could make arrangements with vet schools around the country to have them do BAER testing at no charge to the owners? I am within driving distance of one and would be happy to do that. Although my dogs are normals they have relatives who lost their hearing. That is interesting to know that he believes it is a simple recessive. To me that means the gene must be much more prevalent than I originally thought. Not good news for the breed, unless a genetic test can be developed. Any idea how long we will have to wait for that test? Dr. Neff is concerned with parameter control and consistency in the BAER tests, as we have found that BAER test results by different testers on different machines are highly variable. I don't think we are very far out on a genetic test, though. Dr. Neff has already isolated the suspected genetic pattern (sorry for my lack of more exacting scientific terminology--I am so not a scientist). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denise Wall Posted September 28, 2010 Report Share Posted September 28, 2010 My pedigree research on this over the years has always strongly supported a recessive inheritance pattern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KathyF Posted September 28, 2010 Report Share Posted September 28, 2010 Thank you, Mark for all of this information. I have sent an email to Dr Neff. Kathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz P Posted September 28, 2010 Report Share Posted September 28, 2010 Denise, from what I have seen of pedigrees there are certain (heavily used) sires who seem to consistently pass it down through their descendants. Not all are affected, but it pops up in at least one pup for each generation. What this would tell me if the gene is recessive is that the gene itself must be carried by a relatively large portion of the population for it to show up so often in certain pedigrees. Does Dr. Neff have any idea of the affected and predicted carrier percent in the population? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denise Wall Posted September 28, 2010 Report Share Posted September 28, 2010 Denise, from what I have seen of pedigrees there are certain (heavily used) sires who seem to consistently pass it down through their descendants. Not all are affected, but it pops up in at least one pup for each generation. What this would tell me if the gene is recessive is that the gene itself must be carried by a relatively large portion of the population for it to show up so often in certain pedigrees. Does Dr. Neff have any idea of the affected and predicted carrier percent in the population? Liz, all I can say is I have a lot of pedigree information on it and it's always appeared to be recessive, possibly with one or more modifiers. If there's at least one modifier gene, it may be influencing the affected rate, or at least the age of onset, and we won't know the true incidence of the main gene until we have a gene test. I would not hazard a guess as to the actual carrier rate of the main gene in the border collie population as a whole. We do not have the sophisticated long term information on affected rates that we did with CEA. I think this time would be better spent supporting the research (which is clearly indicated and promising) than panicking about the possible incidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz P Posted September 28, 2010 Report Share Posted September 28, 2010 I'm not panicked, just very curious. I was one of those annoying kids who could never shut up and stop asking questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Billadeau Posted September 28, 2010 Report Share Posted September 28, 2010 A genetic test will likely come in the near future. HOWEVER, more studies will be needed to determine if those with the genetic marker always go deaf and then look for additional genes that may be modifying the age or severity of the deafness. It may be that dogs are "affected" but don't go deaf at an age where the owners are alerted to something out of the ordinary in much the same way owners could miss "go normals" in CEA affected dogs. If this scenario is correct, certain lines could carry a significant number of affected dogs that don't show clinical signs of deafness increasing the rate of deafness in these lines but not due to a high carrier rate in the entire population. For example, if a certain line of dogs has a high rate of CEA “go normals”, breeding within that line is more likely to produce affected dogs than what will likely occur anywhere else in the gene pool. Since the genetics of this are not fully understood AND there has not been an extensive testing program (as in CEA) for clinically measuring early onset deafness there is no way to predict the carrier rate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Billadeau Posted September 28, 2010 Report Share Posted September 28, 2010 We should all be clear on this; Dr. Mark Neff has determined that early onset deafness in Border Collies is an inherited disease. Like ALL inherited diseases, breeders should be aware if any are present in their lines and be careful in their breeding choices to avoid increasing the rate of these diseases in the breed. Mark Neff was very complementary of our breeders' openness and frankness about potential genetic diseases within our breed and dogs. He was also impressed with how we use this openly shared information as a tool to make better informed breeding choices and not simply exclude carriers from breeding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KathyF Posted September 29, 2010 Report Share Posted September 29, 2010 Mark, are you classifying both bilateral and unilateral deafness in this same group as far as being inherited?? I would presume so, but just wanted to make sure. Thanks, Kathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Billadeau Posted September 29, 2010 Report Share Posted September 29, 2010 Kathy, Congenital deafness (born deaf) is different than early onset deafness (going deaf between 2 and 7 years of age); Mark Neff's study is focused on early onset deafness and is not being specific about how many ears are involved. Since they are collected BAER test results they will have this information. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KathyF Posted September 29, 2010 Report Share Posted September 29, 2010 I thought that I read somewhere that early onset deafness is also considered inherited? I realize that being born deaf, congenital, is something different. Kathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted September 29, 2010 Report Share Posted September 29, 2010 Kathy, I think the whole point of the study is to determine the gene(s) involved with early onset deafness, and if it has a genetic basis, then it can be inherited. So I'm not sure what you're asking? J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Billadeau Posted September 29, 2010 Report Share Posted September 29, 2010 Early onset deafness is progressive towards complete loss of hearing; there is not much point, genetically, in distinguishing between uni and bi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KathyF Posted September 29, 2010 Report Share Posted September 29, 2010 I guess what I am asking is that, is early/late inset deafness considered to be inherited and if so, should an affected dog not be bred? I am guessing that any affected dog should not be bred. I just wanted to verify that yes it is inherited and that yes the affected dog should be altered. Kathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Billadeau Posted September 29, 2010 Report Share Posted September 29, 2010 We should all be clear on this; Dr. Mark Neff has determined that early onset deafness in Border Collies is an inherited disease. Like ALL inherited diseases, breeders should be aware if any are present in their lines and be careful in their breeding choices to avoid increasing the rate of these diseases in the breed. At this point I personally would not have the dog altered because we could have a genetic test and clarity of the genetics of this disease within the lifetime of the dog which could enable a great working dog to be bred in such a way to not produce affected pups. But I personally would not breed the dog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurae Posted September 29, 2010 Report Share Posted September 29, 2010 I guess what I am asking is that, is early/late inset deafness considered to be inherited and if so, should an affected dog not be bred? I am guessing that any affected dog should not be bred. I just wanted to verify that yes it is inherited and that yes the affected dog should be altered. Kathy Adult-onset (aka early-/late-onset) deafness is considered to be inherited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KathyF Posted October 19, 2010 Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 Just to add an update to this thread. Cash's sister has also tested as unilaterally deaf. One of his daughters has also tested as a uni. His half brother and another daughter will be tested in early November. This late onset deafness is probably more widespread than any of us realized and I strongly encourage anyone who has a Border Collie with any deafness issues to participate in this study so that we can get a genetic test for this. Kathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Billadeau Posted October 19, 2010 Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 I hope have an announcement for a free BAER clinic in November by the end of this week. We're working out the final details. We're also working on details for additional clinics around the country. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KathyF Posted October 19, 2010 Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 That is great news, Mark. Alison mentioned something about a BAER clinic in the NC area this fall, I think that was the area she mentioned. I sure hope that you can work out some more clinics. I wouldn't mind asking the guy who did the BAER testing for my dogs if he would be willing to do a BAER clinic at a local trial here next year. Kathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Billadeau Posted October 19, 2010 Report Share Posted October 19, 2010 Kathy, Can you send me a PM (or send to Alison) the BAER tester's info and I'll pass it along to Dr. Neff. We've been helping him find testers who are willing to help with his study. Two locations we're working on are NC and TX. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Nashed Posted December 28, 2010 Report Share Posted December 28, 2010 Is this early onset deafness always bilateral or can it be unilateral. The reason is I have a 6 year BC who has lost all hearing in the right but maintains haring on the left which is a change from his baseline. Wondering if this is genetic or an infectious cause. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KathyF Posted December 28, 2010 Report Share Posted December 28, 2010 It can be unilateral too. My dog is an uni and so are his relatives that were found to have some deafness. We are all participating in the study. Kathy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam Wolf Posted December 28, 2010 Report Share Posted December 28, 2010 Sorry, but WHY would you breed a deaf dog? Even uilaterally? It is a major hinderance when working at a distance. A friend has recently encoutered this in his dog. The dog's work is going downhill with his hearing. The dog watches the handler for instructions when his 'bad' ear is towards the handler. I cannot imagine a 4-5 year old dog working so well with a hearing problem that it would be irrestible to breed to/from. I have just become aware of how prevelant this is in the breed and how many people still breed affected dogs. If as evidence shows it is a recessive then there will be non affected carriers and knowing this then it would be like breeding dogs that are carriers of CEA but like CEA why breed an affected? I am sure there are equal or better dogs out there that are NOT affected. Timely subject and one that needs openness, thank you Kathy for bringing it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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