ThunderHill Posted June 10, 2009 Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 As many veterans here have stated, this is hard to evaluate over the internet. My two cents would be that Dave is a dog with a very low/narrow zone arousal threshhold. Low threshold: it only takes a small amount of the wrong kind of stimulation to change him from looking, feeling and even being OK, to being truly overwhelmed and reactive. Narrow zone: the change from being honestly OK to being not OK happens very fast. It's hard to see coming and hard to read, because in this situation you don't get a lot of warning -- and to give Dave credit, neither does he. In immediate terms of the dog's survival and a course of action for you, I think this is a management issue, more than a training issue. That is, for now, prevent the opportunity for the behavior, rather than trying to change the behavior, and buy yourself more time. The suggestion of an appropriate muzzle is great; that should help both of you relax and get on with your lives. It should also help you experiment safely with encounters where it seems like Dave has made progress. Even if Dave does suddenly find a situation unexpectly too much, the consequences will be greatly reduced and you'll probably both recover faster and try again sooner. The hard part will be that (at least in my experience) this is a hard-wiring problem. You can almost certainly moderate it over time, but it will likely always be a factor you'll have to take into account with this dog. The key part is that it can be improved, often so much that very few outsiders will ever know. Good luck to you both. Liz S in South Central PeeYaa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DTrain Posted June 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 11, 2009 Lets make matters worse, I think I might move back to the middle of nowhere. I did some one on one training with Dave last night and it went well. Afterward I spent some play time with all the dogs. The people who live next to us have a pitbull. He is kept in a small enclosure. While the dogs were playing I heard a load crack and turned around to see the pitbull breaking out of his enclosure. This dog has attacked Dave twice before. I ran over to stop the dog, I have handled him before. He grabbed my hand and crunched down. My dog Pete ran over and grabbed him by the neck and I held him down and called for the owner. I am off to the doctor and Pete is off to the Vet and Dave today is very shy and reserved. I can hardly even get near Dave today. He backs away from me like he is afraid of me, poor Dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedismom Posted June 11, 2009 Report Share Posted June 11, 2009 Sounds like your having a tough time of it lately. I'm very sorry. I just wanted to get on and post this link I found to what seems to be an expert in Ontario. Good luck and hang in there! http://www.doncasteranimalclinic.com/index...w&pageid=43 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
painted_ponies Posted June 11, 2009 Report Share Posted June 11, 2009 Wow. I hope your hand turns out to be ok. Hands can be fragile things, especially when a heavy-jawed dog bites down. I had a chow crunch my hand once - didn't break the skin, but bruised it pretty badly. I remember having a "claw" for a couple of days. Poor Dave. It does sound like he has some anxiety issues. It's almost as if he's trying but his nerve just fails him at the last moment. I think talking to the vet's a good idea. Back when I last handled dogs with those kinds of issues, there weren't all these good meds and therapies available. But I'd sure take advantage of them if I needed them now. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bc4ever Posted June 11, 2009 Report Share Posted June 11, 2009 Oh no! Hope your hand is okay. There's an English Bulldog next door and she's pretty friendly, but wouldn't want that mouth clamping down on me or Scooter! Was Pete or Dave injured? Sounds like a messy, traumatic scene. Poor Dave. You're really being tested right now. Hang tough. Pam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shetlander Posted June 11, 2009 Report Share Posted June 11, 2009 So sorry to hear about the attack! Please let us know how you and Dave are holding up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DTrain Posted June 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 This gets stranger. The owner of the dog that bit me is not all home. I spoke with my local animal control folks yesterday and not too much to my surprise both the owner and the dog have a long wrap sheet. Wait, this gets better. I took Pete to the Vet yesterday and he is now being treated for an infection from a bite. I spoke with the owner last night and discovered something very strange. He gets very upset when we are out training and playing with the dogs. In fact, he hates it and it makes him violently angry although he was not exactly certain why. He thinks it upsets his dog, strange. So, he lets his dog out in some sort of retaliation. I may have assumed that if the dog is upset it may be excited to get in on the play but I was wrong. The dog is excited to make an attack and the owner is aware of this. Now I find the people who live next to us with the pit bull require medical attention themselves of a different nature. He claims this whole thing is my fault because I was out first playing with my dogs and I caused his dog to break out and attack me. He is going to call animal control and have my dogs put down because they are outside playing and upsetting his dog, right. It is very scary to think that someone could become violent at the sight of three border collies running and playing frisbee and send an attack dog to respond. To a normal person this would be a rather inspiring sight. This guy is the poster boy for bad owners with pit bulls and untreated mental disorders. Animal control is insisting that I get back to them today and I shall. Does anyone know where I can get an attack elephant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shetlander Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 Good grief, it does just keep getting worse and worse! Good for you to go forward with keeping animal control in this mess. I'd consider calling in the police. The man is not only mentally ill but behaving criminally. Meanwhile, never leave your dogs out unattended. Who knows what he'd do to them if he had half a chance? And be careful yourself. Really, think about getting the police involved. If nothing else, there will be a record of a deliberate attack in case anything more happens. How is your hand? So sorry to hear all this!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildFlower Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 That is just awful. I hope that everything end out being ok. Poor Dave.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bc4ever Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 This gets stranger. The owner of the dog that bit me is not all home. This guy is the poster boy for bad owners with pit bulls and untreated mental disorders. Animal control is insisting that I get back to them today and I shall. Does anyone know where I can get an attack elephant. Maybe you should relocate. This guy sounds dangerous! Watch your dogs and your back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz P Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 I would be moving, ASAP! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderHill Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 Barring an attack elephant, I'd suggest installing a dummy security camera on the outside of your house, aimed toward the part of your yard where the bad dog might appear. (Not directly at your neighbor's place.) Make an obvious display of surveillance. There are places on line which sell fake security cameras. Or put in a real security camera, if feasible. Good luck to you, hope you and your dog heal quickly, and that somehow this bad situation gets resolved very soon. Many sympathisizings! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
painted_ponies Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 Next time the dog gets out, I'd put him in the truck and take him to a no-kill shelter, one far enough away that the owner wouldn't find him. When the neighbor isn't watching. Dog? What dog? Nope, haven't seen him. Rinse and repeat as necessary should more dogs arrive. Oh, and of course, you'll have to watch your own dogs like hawks. ETA: Of course, it would be simpler and safer to move, if that's an option. But I'm on a family farm and wouldn't have that option. I'm guessing you're not in farm country, or somebody would've already shot that dog and shoveled over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pansmom Posted June 12, 2009 Report Share Posted June 12, 2009 God, this is an AWFUL situation. I can't believe how off-kilter your neighbor is. No wonder Dave has been traumatized. I vote document everything and call the police! And please let us know how everything goes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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