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Understanding this behaviour


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Can somebody please explain 'passive agressive' behaviour?

 

I think that's what we are dealing with in our pup (9 mths) - he is so good (almost too good to be true!) in general, but when he got confused tonight and husband raised his voice and held his scruff (wrong, I know) he growled quietly and curled his lip, but wet himself at the same time.

 

I have had many collies - and this particular collie is an utter pleasure (a really clever and normally perfectly behaved pup) - but what does this behaviour mean, and how should we correct it? What should we do if the pup growls at us - although I feel he's maybe confused about what we want, bearing in mind this is only the second time it has ever happened - but I don't want this to escalate.

 

We have NEVER smacked this dog. :rolleyes:

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I know you'll get lots of great advice here, but here is my take.

 

Your pup was scared, not passive-aggressive! It doesn't matter no other collie you've had was that scared in that situation. This one sounds terrified! I have no idea why, but if I were you and your husband I would take several steps back in trust and bonding training to see if that helped and not physically correct like that again.

 

I am not saying at all that what you did was necessarily mean - I have scruffed my dog and growled at him at the same age or younger. The last time I did it, he tried to "herd" a family member's yorkie in such a violent way that I really came down on him hard as you describe. He acted like, "whatever, Mom" although he did stop his rude behavior immediately. My in-laws' full-grown doberman, however, peed herself right on the spot and started shaking uncontrollably, even though I didn't touch her at all and she had nothing to do with it. She will also growl if she feels threatened, even though she is a very sweet and to this day safe dog. As far as I know, here would be two examples of very different temperaments and abilities to accept correction-based training.

 

BTW, even my dog, who absolutely isn't fazed at all by pretty serious corrections, responds much better to positive methods as a rule. Good luck and sorry your guy was so freaked!!

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Thanks Ooky - this has really bothered me! I usually command my dogs without raising my voice (especially this one) - and always use positive reinforcement in training.

 

Pup was distracted by cows and although he came back, he didn't want to - and when asked to, he wouldn't go 'inside' the house..... husband gave the command several times, but pup almost did the opposite - this is when husband raised his voice and held him by the scruff and all this happened.

 

Hubby wasn't yelling - just being 'stern' and certainly didn't hurt him, he wouldn't dream of it - but I am concerned about the lip curling and how to stop any chance of this escalating.

 

He really is a very sweet and obedient dog, and obviously 'stern' treatment doesn't work for sure with this little dude. What would you have done? Positive reinforcement, but how? Would you have gone inside the house and called him from there? Any advice please? It is generally the human at fault.......

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Thanks Ooky - this has really bothered me! I usually command my dogs without raising my voice (especially this one) - and always use positive reinforcement in training. However, I'm talking about my husband here :rolleyes:

 

Pup was distracted by cows and although he came back, he didn't want to - and when asked to, he wouldn't go 'inside' the house..... husband gave the command several times, but pup almost did the opposite - this is when husband raised his voice and held him by the scruff and all this happened.

 

Hubby wasn't yelling - just being 'stern' and certainly didn't hurt him, he wouldn't dream of it - but I am concerned about the lip curling and how to stop any chance of this escalating.

 

He really is a very sweet and obedient dog, and obviously 'stern' treatment doesn't work for sure with this little dude. What would you have done? Positive reinforcement, but how? Would you have gone inside the house and called him from there? Any advice please? It is generally the human at fault.......

 

i would have gotten a leash, looped it around him and just walked in the house. he would have gotten the idea that I was generally unhappy about this, though I wouldn't even say anything. Then, the next time I let him out, I would leave a long line dragging on him and work on recalls.

 

Hope it works!

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I can't tell from your description, but if the pup came up to your husband but then refused to go in the house (is there a command for going in the house?) and got corrected, he probably was confused and may have thought he was being punished for coming. I agree with Soda--let him drag a line and just reel him in when he doesn't go in the house or come to you when you want. It sounds like the correction your husband used was just too much for the pup (or mistimed, or both). A pup that is scared will lift its lip/growl out of fear, which would also be consistent with the submissive urination that occurred.

 

Passive-aggressive behavior (to me) requires forethought, and dogs don't operate that way. It sounds as if the pup found something outside infinitely more interesting than what was inside. So in addition to the long line, I'd make sure he got plenty of reward for doing the right thing. I, too, have used a scruff shake, but I reserve such corrections for extremely unacceptable behavior, like chasing a chicken with intent to do harm.

 

J.

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I can't tell from your description, but if the pup came up to your husband but then refused to go in the house (is there a command for going in the house?) and got corrected, he probably was confused and may have thought he was being punished for coming. I agree with Soda--let him drag a line and just reel him in when he doesn't go in the house or come to you when you want. It sounds like the correction your husband used was just too much for the pup (or mistimed, or both). A pup that is scared will lift its lip/growl out of fear, which would also be consistent with the submissive urination that occurred.

 

Passive-aggressive behavior (to me) requires forethought, and dogs don't operate that way. It sounds as if the pup found something outside infinitely more interesting than what was inside. So in addition to the long line, I'd make sure he got plenty of reward for doing the right thing. I, too, have used a scruff shake, but I reserve such corrections for extremely unacceptable behavior, like chasing a chicken with intent to do harm.

 

J.

 

Thanks Julie.

 

Yes there is a command - which is simply 'inside'. The pup had come back, but wouldn't go inside - and I do believe husband acted too stern over too little.

 

Thanks guys for clarifying the lip-curl - I wanted to be absolutely sure. I will be working on the recall again - we have had somebody staying with us for a couple of months too (who doesn't train dogs and has no idea) and in my absence I think the command has become 'diluted'....

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I can't tell from your description, but if the pup came up to your husband but then refused to go in the house (is there a command for going in the house?) and got corrected, he probably was confused and may have thought he was being punished for coming. I agree with Soda--let him drag a line and just reel him in when he doesn't go in the house or come to you when you want. It sounds like the correction your husband used was just too much for the pup (or mistimed, or both). A pup that is scared will lift its lip/growl out of fear, which would also be consistent with the submissive urination that occurred.

 

Passive-aggressive behavior (to me) requires forethought, and dogs don't operate that way. It sounds as if the pup found something outside infinitely more interesting than what was inside. So in addition to the long line, I'd make sure he got plenty of reward for doing the right thing. I, too, have used a scruff shake, but I reserve such corrections for extremely unacceptable behavior, like chasing a chicken with intent to do harm.

 

J.

 

Thanks Julie.

 

Yes there is a command - which is simply 'inside'. The pup had come back, but wouldn't go inside - but I do believe husband acted too stern over too little in this instance.

 

Thanks guys for clarifying the lip-curl - I wanted to be absolutely sure. I will be working on the recall again - we have had somebody staying with us for a couple of months too (who doesn't train dogs and has no idea) and in my absence I think the command has become 'diluted'....

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He sounds like a sensistive pup. I wouldn't manhandle him and agree with putting him on a drag line for a bit. I think I'd pee too if I were scruffed by someone almost ten times my size! :rolleyes:

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