Plumridge Border Collies?

[PlumRidge]

I also read about who got the pups. They just seemed to be placing them where ever they could just to get rid of them. I didn't see too many (if any) said to be going to working homes.

 

I second the rescue, I swear it changed my life

 

Well as stated before, the person who started this thread was not working for a working home (not in the sense of a livestock working home that is).

 

I am sorry that you feel the people who got my pups was because I wanted to "just to get rid of them". That has never been my intentions, and I doubt the people who have gotten pups from me feel all the calls/interviews, questionnaires and questions they had to go thru were just so I could 'just get rid of them'.

 

I do not often place many of my dogs into homes that trial on the Open USBCHA field, I am open and honest about that. The few that have contacted me about pups were not pleased to hear that I did not want to see my dog trained and then resold (which does happen often with some trial people). Any puppy I sell, if for some reason they are unable to keep it needs to come back to me. I also ask that all health checks be done before any breeding of that animal takes place.

 

As one man (who runs USBCHA) told me, "I want to buy the dog and walk away with it and not have to 'tell' you anything or agree to do anything with it (such as health checks)'... "Sorry sir, I don't place my pups that way. I want to know where they are, how they are doing and if God forbid something crops up in a litter, I want to be able to stand behind the pup and also tell the other owners who have the littermates what is going on.

 

Most of my pups go to homes that wanted a good healthy companion (which is altered) or a good working dog (which also coming from me gets altered). They are not on this forum, they are out with the family or out on their farms getting work done. Knowing that a guy can get his goats in the barn with no other human help (just him and a pup that came from me) is fine with me... the dog will never be seen at a trial, and never produce a litter, but it still makes me proud because that is exactly what the man wanted.

 

I am proud to say that three youngsters (all under two years of age) ran Pro Novice at the Bluegrass. One of those pups was born with me, the other two were born out of a female that is mine. Also one of my males, was the sire to a very nice dog who ran Ranch with a relatively new handler and did quite well.

 

I am also proud have bred a pup that has won a nursery trial on the west coast.

 

Wendy

PlumRidge

[sixx]

Border Collie Rescue of Middle TN is not a legitimate rescue. It is run by a puppy mill owner. One of the worst there is.

 

 

Oh geez! Sorry about that, I had no clue. That is horrible! Thanks for informing me and everyone else, and thanks for removing it.

[jdarling]

Hi Wendy. Thank you for coming and discussing your breeding program.

 

I notice that many of your dogs are AKC registered and you seem to trial a bit in the AKC herding program. I would be interested to hear why you maintain dual registration on many of your dogs, how you feel it dual registration benefits the breed, and both the positive and negative effects you see the AKC herding program has on Border Collies. Also, if you were forced to pick one registration, which one would it be and why.

 

Thanks!

[PlumRidge]

I just have to say Wendy, that in the face of so much opposition, I do appreciate your respect and calm demeanor as you clarify some things that have been mentioned.

-Katie

 

 

Well thank you Katie!!

 

I will be happy to clarify anything anyone wants to ask me!!

 

I know there are many a person out there that will NEVER want a dog from me. I also know MANY a person that I would not sell a dog (for ANY dollar amount!!). I can't please everyone. I usually piss off more people because I won't sell them a dog ... (I don't want to see my dogs bred sheerly for color, agility titles or even worse mixed with a terrier for flyball purposes).

 

I adore my dogs, I spend a great deal of time with them (I have filled numerous external hard drives with photos and videos of my beloved dogs). I have put many an extra mile on my van just to take the dogs to a clinic, so I could learn more, do better. I have made mistakes, purchased dogs I should not have (poor workers, poor bloodlines, failed health checks) but I have tried to imporve (placing dogs along the way) and proudly breed dogs I can take to the post and have a good time with.

 

Right now I do think this is rather 'ironic' that I am being called a puppy mill, and one that doesn't seem to care where my dogs go, or what happens to them.

 

I have my beloved 'regal old lady" dying of diabeties (well the complications that go along with it). Years ago when she was diagnosed with diabeties at my vet's office, they flat out told me. "Many owners don't want to mess with it, or spend the money" so we can 'just put her down for you". I of course said NO WAY if she can be happy with a little help from me... I will do it for her.

 

Now years later, she has had some recent bad episodes (quit reacting to her insulin) and she costs me a great deal (almost $200 a month with her insulin, blood gluocose testing supplies, special liver medications - she is in liver failure now too etc.. etc... etc...). I drive 50+ miles to buy her the special holistic food she does well on, I have given up days at trials and clinics because the entry money is going to her bills. I didn't get to stay and watch as much of the Bluegrass as I wanted to, because she was not doing well at home, and the person watching her couldn't get her blood drawn to do a glucose test on her.

 

I have friends (even those friends who do trial USBCHA!) that tell me how I have gone above and beyond what a normal person would do for her. Yeah that is probably true. (Heck the lady at Walgreens that sold me her last case of insulin syringes couldn't believe I was doing this for my dog .. as she said "She is JUST a dog"). But I do these things for my dogs ... because they matter me.

 

I am sure a puppy mill (or heck even just a working farm home that need a dog to work the farm) would have just put her to sleep and moved on. Not only is she not productive (and never produced a litter of pups from me!!) but she is expensive! But guess what - she is my beloved dog, and as long as she is happy I will do it for her.

 

Wendy

PlumRidge

[PlumRidge]

Hi Wendy. Thank you for coming and discussing your breeding program.

 

I notice that many of your dogs are AKC registered and you seem to trial a bit in the AKC herding program. I would be interested to hear why you maintain dual registration on many of your dogs, how you feel it dual registration benefits the breed, and both the positive and negative effects you see the AKC herding program has on Border Collies. Also, if you were forced to pick one registration, which one would it be and why.

 

Thanks!

 

I tried to respond to this ... and I am not seeing it.

 

I apologize for that. It is late and I have dogs to work and pay attention to in the morning so I will try to respond later if my original one does not appear.

 

Good night

 

Wendy

[PlumRidge]

Hi Wendy. Thank you for coming and discussing your breeding program.

 

I notice that many of your dogs are AKC registered and you seem to trial a bit in the AKC herding program. I would be interested to hear why you maintain dual registration on many of your dogs, how you feel it dual registration benefits the breed, and both the positive and negative effects you see the AKC herding program has on Border Collies. Also, if you were forced to pick one registration, which one would it be and why.

 

Thanks!

 

First also let me aplogize. My website is not as current as I wish it was. I would rather spend my time with my dogs, instead of doing a website I don't know how to maintain. The person who does my website, is a dog lover (I helped her get a rescue BC) but not a breeder, a trialer or anything such as that. She also has a full time job, and has gone back to school to get her Master's degree... so her time to update things does get very limited. I wish I could have additional things stated (such as my stance on certain things .. in the BC world showing and AKC vs a true working dog and with my Aussies the world of those 'dreaded mini Aussies"), but attention and time with my dogs will out weigh an updated website every time!!

 

To answer your question, Yes I do trial AKC, I also trial ASCA (have WTCH a number of BCs) and AHBA, I try to do USBCHA when time and training allows. The closest training facility to me that holds clinics and trials is just 15 - 20 min from my house. They are a more all breed farm (Belgian Tervs) and offer AKC most often. So for ease and learning I chose to drive less and train and clinic more.

 

To date not all my dogs are AKC registered. As I have stated earlier, some of my pups are sold (on alter contracts of course!) to homes that choose to do agility, obedience etc.. and they ask for AKC papers (which they get ONLY after they have altered the dog!).

 

I feel that any venue that allows me to herd with me dogs is a benefit. I like to work my dogs, I do enjoy to trial as well. So since AKC gave me a venue to do that ...I did. Personally I have a great time doing the ASCA trials... as the dogs get to run 3 times a trial (sheep, ducks, and cattle) and if it's a day where they are doing an AM/PM trial my guys can run 6 times in a day. That is alot more fun than sitting around and getting to run once USBCHA (and gosh if it's a bad day ... have a dog not find his sheep and RT the run).

 

AKC is not going to ruin our breed, WE are going to ruin our breed if we let it. Choosing to breed to cater to buyers, people who say "you should do this" or who only want 'this or that" will get us all in trouble. Only sell intact dogs to people that have you same 'ideals' in mind .. and you will help to preserve that working ability which to me is what is important.

 

The reality is the "Barbie Collies" have been around for a long time, they are NOT going away. Do I want to own a strictly show bred dog that can't herd it's way out of a paper bag.. HE** no. But there are people out there that do. We can't change them, or make them go away. I also choose to NOT sell my dogs to people who wish to do conformation breed ring with a BC (or that want "breed into a working line" with their show bred dogs).

 

Your question about if I were required to choose ONE registry to register my BCs... it would be the ABCA. I prefer the working instinct/ability in my dogs, I want to preserve that. ABCA is interested to perserve that. I will continue to enjoy the AKC herding trials when I can afford to (with my old dog draining my pocketbook currently its a bit hard) because the dogs get to work... and that makes them happy (they don't care if they get a ribbon or a check at the end of the day ...).

 

I hope that answers the question! (It is getting late and I am getting tired as I didn't want to waste valuable day light responding to this when my dogs needed my attention so I have really joined this "late").

 

Wendy

Plum Ridge

[juliepoudrier]

Wendy,

I'm sorry you object to my characterization of you as a mill. If you knew me, you'd know that I'm being entirely consistent in my thinking and definition of a mill. To me a mill doesn't mean the dogs are necessarily treated badly or neglected or anything like that. A mill is someone who has a lot of dogs and breeds them. You (the generic you) could spend scads of $$ on your dogs and still be considered a mill from my POV because to me a mill is anyone who is a high-volume breeder regardless of how they feel about or care for their dogs.

 

You say you spend a lot of time with your dogs and work them, etc., and I believe that. I have nine border collies: three older retirees, an older nonworking rescue, and five younger dogs who are my trial dogs. I also sometimes have another young dog here for socialization and introduction to stockwork. Getting all those dogs worked is very time consuming. The time necessary to get them working to a level where I can see what they've got (for potential breeding purposes, for example) isn't insignificant. I sometimes worry that I'm not giving them enough individual attention. I honestly don't see how you can make the time to really work all those dogs (even accounting for some of them being retired) and make honest evaluations of their working ability, let alone just spend quality time with them. And that's not even taking into account all the Aussies you also have. Nor the time it takes to participate in other activities like conformation showing or dog sports.

 

And if you're not proving your dogs and their offspring through work then I don't see how you can judge the efficacy of your breeding program when it comes to working ability. I know of other high-volume breeders who will sell dogs into working homes and yet since those are few compared to the ones that go to pet and sport homes, they really have no idea if their breeding choices are producing good working dogs. People I know who have gotten dogs from such programs to use on their farms or trial have more often than not been disappointed.

 

I have no doubt you love your dogs, and I think that's why we're all here having this discussion. Thanks for coming here and "talking" with us.

 

Oh, and regarding your comments about Vergil Holland and any lack OFA ratings: a number of working dog folk don't OFA their dogs. That doesn't mean the dogs haven't been X-rayed and evaluated by an orthopedist--it just means many choose not to use the OFA rating system. For some folks, me included, a rating is just a rating, and there are a number of other factors that are considered as well, primary among them the actual ability of the dog. Sure dogs with bad hips can and do work and trial, but for the most part (yes, there are exceptions), a dog that is consistently working well without breaking down under a variety of work conditions is one that doesn't have any major structural issues. The opinion of a respected orthopedic specialist is sufficient for me if I'm looking to buy a pup. It's always the buyer's choice to demand tests or not, but placing tests above all else isn't necessarily going to produce the best workers.

 

J.

[ShoresDog]

I just visited the Plumridge web site. If I counted right, there are 53 adult dogs, two (soon three) litters, and four mascot/retired dogs. That is a LOT of dogs!

[Sue R]

Absolutely everything Julie said! And from personal experience.

[PlumRidge]

Wendy,

I'm sorry you object to my characterization of you as a mill. If you knew me, you'd know that I'm being entirely consistent in my thinking and definition of a mill. To me a mill doesn't mean the dogs are necessarily treated badly or neglected or anything like that. A mill is someone who has a lot of dogs and breeds them. You (the generic you) could spend scads of $$ on your dogs and still be considered a mill from my POV because to me a mill is anyone who is a high-volume breeder regardless of how they feel about or care for their dogs.

 

You say you spend a lot of time with your dogs and work them, etc., and I believe that. I have nine border collies: three older retirees, an older nonworking rescue, and five younger dogs who are my trial dogs. I also sometimes have another young dog here for socialiation and introduction to stockwork. Getting all those dogs worked is very time consuming. The time necessary to get them working to a level where I can see what they've got (for potential breeding purposes, for example) isn't insignificant. I sometimes worry that I'm not giving them enough individual attention. I honestly don't see how you can make the time to really work all those dogs (even accounting for some of them being retired) and make honest evaluations of their working ability, let alone just spend quality time with them. And that's not even taking into account all the Aussies you also have. Nor the time it takes to participate in other activities like conformation showing or dog sports.

 

And if you're not proving your dogs and their offspring through work then I don't see how you can judge the efficacy of your breeding program when it comes to working ability. I know of other high-volume breeders who will sell dogs into working homes and yet since those are few compared to the ones that go to pet and sport homes, they really have no idea if their breeding choices are producing good working dogs. People I know who have gotten dogs from such programs to use on their farms or trial have more often than not been disappointed.

 

I have no doubt you love your dogs, and I think that's why we're all here having this discussion. Thanks for coming here and "talking" with us.

 

Oh, and regarding your comments about Vergil Holland and any lack OFA ratings: a number of working dog folk don't OFA their dogs. That doesn't mean the dogs haven't been X-rayed and evaluated by an orthopedist--it just means many choose not to use the OFA rating system. For some folks, me included, a rating is just a rating, and there are a number of other factors that are considered as well, primary among them the actual ability of the dog. Sure dogs with bad hips can and do work and trial, but for the most part (yes, there are exceptions), a dog that is consistently working well without breaking down under a variety of work conditions is one that doesn't have any major structural issues. The opinion of a respected orthopedic specialist is sufficient for me if I'm looking to buy a pup. It's always the buyer's choice to demand tests or not, but placing tests above all else isn't necessarily going to produce the best workers.

 

J.

 

Good morning Julie!!

 

You caught me up near the computer doing the blood glucose curve on my old diabetic girl.

 

You are very right, I don't "know' you so I don't know your thinking or definition of a 'mill'. In the same way, you also have never met me, know me and probably have not met any of my dogs. If you do want to get to 'know' me, please call I will try to find the time to talk to you (leave a message, I will probably be out with the dogs... I will call ya back when I can!!)

 

Thank you for your clarification on what you feel is a puppy mill. I can not and will not contest that I have a higher number of dogs than many do. I have dogs I wish I could place, but at this point appropriate homes have not come along (again if I wanted to sell them 'Just to get rid of them" or allow them to be sold to a breeding program that didn't have the ideals or feelings I do, they would be long gone by now). I also have dogs posted to my site that do not live with me, My name stays on them so they can't be bred without my say so, which is why I leave them posted on the site.

 

I also choose not to personally participate in the other dog sports with my dogs (Aussies or BCs). I don't take the time to do agility (don't enjoy the noise of a flyball event). Other owners do (including owners who have pups from me), and if it makes them and their dogs happy more power to them. I do conformation shows with my Aussies (have for years) and still handle other breeds for others when I am already going to the show for an Aussie. My passion with the BCs is the herding, I love it, they love it so I will choose to keep it up.

 

I guess I will politely object to the "high volume" breeding statement. In the calendar year of 2008 I produced three litters of Border Collie puppies. One of those litters was sadly an unplanned litter (someone helping me turn dogs out allowed my female out when they should not have ...). I took responsiblity (including the expensive C-section and the DNA testing to prove parentage) for the litter and placed all three of the pups in homes where they are loved and altered. I am sure that is more litters than you (again I don't know you so it's a guess ... as you don't really know me) but it is not as many as other people who choose to do breedings (I am aware it is less than some of the top trial people in the UK and Europe even). Are there years I have produced more BCs litters than others yes, and there are years I have produced less.

 

Please also do NOT take my post about lack of OFA numbers on Vergil's dogs as a poor opinion of Vergil. I have seen Vergil at many a trial, seen the dogs he has bred thru the years and think they are very fine working dogs. I also do agree that ability to do the work over long periods of time DOES give a good indication of healthy dogs with good structure (exceptions of course can and have been proven... I long ago had a Rottie who failed miserably an OFA x-ray... she jogged next to her new owner (I placed her spayed due to the hips) for many MANY years after that and no one ever could believe her x-ray was really 'her".

 

Just as you weigh out an orthopedic x-ray vs OFA (or Penn Hip or heck nothing but a great winning trial record on big USBCHA fields with international sheds etc.. etc..) as part of your decison to buy a pup (or not buy a pup), a seller can 'decide' to do more if they wish by testing for other things.

 

OFA (or PennHip) are just ways to show a buyer as a breeder you really 'are' doing something. Heck it can't prove that pup won't have bad hips (I know of few breedings that were two OFA excellents that produce multiple HD pups in just one litter) As you know many a 'bad" unethical in it for the money only breeder that can say "YEAH I had the hips x-rays... " just because it 'sounds' good to a buyer but they never did. You as a savvy buyer would know not to just go by their word (and my guess would be you would not even contact them in the first place). But those "JQ Public" that are out there 'just wanting to buy a dog" doesn't.

 

In my years of dog ownership (and this counts handling other breeds as a handler but not an owner and the years my parents raised pups on our farm when I was a child). I have seen what poor health and genetic problems can do to a dog (and the heart of the person that owns it). I have watched a dog fall to the floor and seizure out of control, I have seen them waste away from cancer, witnessed them no longer function because of an eye disorder (ie CEA or PRA ) that sets in and their vision doesn't show them the way anymore. I have sat next to an owner in a vet's office because their beloved dog didn't wake up from surgery (due to a heart condition). I feel that by doing the additional health testing, (along with many other 'factors' pedigree and working ability as I get to see it) is just one small way to 'help try to prevent that heart ache".

 

I know you personally will never ask to buy a dog from me (and I don't know you enough to even consider to sell a dog to you) I am fine with that. But the litters I have produced are not for others really. They are for me, so I can keep a puppy (as I have said in earlier posts I don't have interest or time to produce a litter JUST to sell those pups). I feel a great responsibility to the remaining pups of those litters, to find them good homes. I find that alter homes that just want a good working dog for their farm, or that just want a healthy companion to hike or ride in the truck on the farm is a safe bet for those pups. I don't have to worry that someone wanting to qualify for the National finals will find a pup I bred doesn't measure up and then resells it to another party, who then might resell it to another party etc... etc... etc... I just have to worry about going to the mailbox and finding a Christmas card with a photo of the dog (usually with silly antlers stuck to it's head) surrounded by the kids saying "Merry Christmas".

 

Wendy

PlumRidge

[1sheepdoggal]

So basically,what Im understanding here, is that you realize you are breeding substandard working collies, but thats OK with you, becaiuse you have a spay/neuter agreement when you sell a dog, you stand behind your health certs, and you breed dogs for yourself. But, dont have the time or incination to prove them? I still dont understand then, why are you breeding?

[PlumRidge]

I just visited the Plumridge web site. If I counted right, there are 53 adult dogs, two (soon three) litters, and four mascot/retired dogs. That is a LOT of dogs!

 

 

Again I will apologize. The website is not as current as it should be. Many of the others (BCs included are older and should be moved to retiree status).

 

I also am blessed with people that help raise some of the dogs for sociailization, so they don't always live with me. I also have sent dogs off to trainers for training and evaluation too.

 

One of thoes litters (Aussies) listed was born in Dec. of last year and is essentially all placed (the last show puppy appears to have a qualified home and will get to fly to it's new home when the weather is good). My webperson has not updated it.

 

The second litter has a pup I wanted to keep (but agin if the right appropriate home came along could go as well) so I have left it listed. Others have been placed.

 

The upcoming litter is a female that in her one and only previous litter produced only two pups, so if that is all she has this time (which is very possible due to her size) that litter will be all spoken for as well (extra pup(s) would be already spoken for to livestock working homes).

 

Wendy

PlumRidge

[PlumRidge]

So basically,what Im understanding here, is that you realize you are breeding substandard working collies, but thats OK with you, becaiuse you have a spay/neuter agreement when you sell a dog, you stand behind your health certs, and you breed dogs for yourself. But, dont have the time or incination to prove them? I still dont understand then, why are you breeding?

 

I am sorry you feel that the dogs working wise have pedigrees that are substandard. (The upcoming litter is a daughter of Serge's dog "Glen" who took 4th at the World Trials) and the sire to this litter earned an invitation to the USBCHA National Cattle finals (the year escapes me right now). He has won Open USBCHA cattle trials (handled by me). Kane is a joy, I know he will turn a cow if it faces up to him, he will move that half step I ask him to take at a pen to get that last sheep to go in, and he will even put up with slow waddling ducks because I ask him to. AND at the end of the day he will flop on the floor beside the couch not bothering a thing and nap till you ask him to do it again.

 

I am sure I won't please you, so it probably would be best I do not try.

 

Wendy

PlumRidge

[1sheepdoggal]

So you are breeding your dogs off the reps of others breeding and training? Do you own stock?

[PlumRidge]

So you are breeding your dogs off the reps of others breeding and training? Do you own stock?

 

I personally trialed (and won with) the male who is the sire to the upcoming litter. Early on we had some 'interesting' runs I will admit that (me, I had not practiced penning sheep and I had sheep ciricling the pen - but then I took lessons on better ways to pen sheep at a trial and WOW that sure worked!!) I did send the mother to the litter off to a trainer for a period of time. So I guess to you because she was sent off to a trainer that is other people's training.

[Eileen Stein]

But the litters I have produced are not for others really. They are for me, so I can keep a puppy (as I have said in earlier posts I don't have interest or time to produce a litter JUST to sell those pups).

 

This puzzles me a bit. Am I right to interpret this as meaning that you keep a pup from every litter you produce? When will you feel you have enough dogs so that you can lay off producing more puppies "for you" for a year or two? Is there a specific number you're aiming for?

[Lenajo]

But the litters I have produced are not for others really. They are for me, so I can keep a puppy

 

And you needed a puppy, with 53 (minus a few sold or bought) other dogs on the property? Needed a puppy so badly that you had 2 litters plus an "oops" in one year alone?

 

I'm really good at multi-dog tasking myself, but I'd be willing to be money that nobody can give 53 dogs adequete attention daily. IF you don't eat, go to the bathroom, or sleep, thats 27 minutes per dog a day. If you sleep 8 hours, just skip the rest (who needs to potty or have a life or a family anyway LOL), that's 18 minutes a dog. Now if you skip a few weekends and holidays....hmmmm....sounds like some of those dogs are going to get food, water, and a how-de-do daily for most of their lives. Maybe breeding is their savior from terminal boredom

 

As proven by many a puppy mill, a ## set of grandparents means nothing if the parents aren't proven/proving themselves. Resting on the laurels of others may work in British royalty , but in working dogs it's a recipe for substandard at best.

[PlumRidge]

This puzzles me a bit. Am I right to interpret this as meaning that you keep a pup from every litter you produce? When will you feel you have enough dogs so that you can lay off producing more puppies "for you" for awhile? Is there a specific number you're aiming for?

 

When I say I keep it it may not live at my home with me directly (keep ability to use it). As many people do, I keep and grow pups out from litters, some of these pups (as others have stated earlier) do not mature into the working dog a person hopes they will be. For that reason the 'retained' puppy who is now older is placed in an appropriate home (some working some not).

 

As many working people are fully aware just because a good dog will work for one person does not mean they will work that way for another. As handlers many of you prefer certain 'style' of working dog (some want a natural outrun, other like a pushier driving type dog, others want a dog with more grip etc... etc...) Alot of these things can't be found out as a small pup and heck even an older pup beginning it's training. We can even go as far to argue just because a dog "is this type" does not mean he will PRODUCE this type.

 

If a person is going to truly judge how a dog (stud or bitch) produces wouldn't retaining a pup from it be a good and safe test? This way a breeder is not burdening a buyer with a puppy that will not suit their needs because they don't know what that line or that dog has produced in the past.

 

There are stud dogs (and we can add bitches into it) out there that have produced wonderful working pups and have produced well for lack of a better term "Duds". A big winning dog (as many like to say that trials are wonderful ways to prove a dog is worthwhile to breed) sometimes reproduces himself, and sometimes does not. No one will know till that person sticks their neck out and breeds it.

 

I am sure many of you can pose these questions all day long. These discussions are always interesting and enlightening. I doubt I will ever answer anything to your satisfaction. And as stated in many posts before, I am not the place you would want to buy a dog (which is fine by me) Especially as many of you are people I personally would prefer NOT to sell a dog to.

 

I have tried to answer your questions, I feel I have failed and I do apologize for it.

 

I will go back to working with and playing with the dogs. Good luck to all with your dogs, your training, your trials etc.. I wish no one ill will.

 

Again if people want to 'speak' directly to me PLEASE CALL!! Happy to talk to you!!

 

Wendy

[jdarling]

Simple, straightforward questions posed by Eileen: 3

Paragraphs in response: 8

Questions answered: 0

 

Call for what?

[PlumRidge]

Simple, straightforward questions posed by Eileen: 3

Paragraphs in response: 8

Questions answered: 0

 

Call for what?

 

Oh I am so sorry!! I thought I did answer the questions.

 

Do I retain in my home a pup from EVERY litter... NO. (but I do have access to them, get to see them, if they grow up to be worthy I could breed to them etc...)

 

Is there a specific number I am going for... NO there is not.

 

The other question was breeding and when, (right?). My breeding plans don't take a specific well "this one this year ... that one next year". I choose to evaluate that when the time presents itself. If a female comes into heat I look forward at the timing and my hopes to trial ( or clinic) or other factors. If these factors would prevent the time I feel the litter would require then I will certainly NOT breed her.

 

Again good luck with all your dogs!!

[Maralynn]

Could you provide us with a list of trial accomplishments that your dogs have? Including which ones you have handled/trained and to what level? Also a list of trial/working accomplishments of dogs from the litters you have bred?

[OurBoys]

Please understand, while I read through this thread, I've tried to keep an open mind because like you stated earlier, owners of working dogs will breed when they are ready for another dog but I am confused. You stated:

 

I have dogs I wish I could place, but at this point appropriate homes have not come along (again if I wanted to sell them 'Just to get rid of them" or allow them to be sold to a breeding program that didn't have the ideals or feelings I do, they would be long gone by now).

 

In the calendar year of 2008 I produced three litters of Border Collie puppies.

 

Are there years I have produced more BCs litters than others yes, and there are years I have produced less.

 

And

 

Do I retain in my home a pup from EVERY litter... NO.

 

If you still have dogs you wish you could place and you don't keep a dog from every litter, why do you still breed if it's not to make money? If this question has already been answered, I apologize for missing it but to me it would just make more sense if you waited on breeding until after all your dogs have been placed and then wait until you are in need of one to replace one you already have.

[PennyT]

Given the number of dogs, Plumridge, like Beckman's operation, would have to have a much better track record before I would consider the breeder's accomplishments worthy of a second glance.

 

In addition, Plumridge is on the BCSA breeder referral list, another oversize red flag billowing in the wind.

 

I think it's peculiar that a "training centre" website fails to have any information on what the centre teaches yet lists lots of dogs and lots of dogs for sale. Dogs usually don't have to be taught to copulate. Did I overlook a page on the site?

 

Penny

[2 Devils]

Funny thing is I actually know who Wendy is from when she was in VA. She was a dog trainer out here and was quite good. She always took exceptional care of her dogs from what I could see. I always wondered what happened to her.

 

Yes she seems to have way too many dogs in my opinion but you have to give her credit for keeping a clear head and not getting snippy in her responses. I think that does say something about her being level headed.

[Journey]

Regardless of all that has been said, nothing has been proven. If Wendy says she isn't a PM or a BYB then the only question left in my mind is - is she a "hoarder"? There is no way possible to give 53 or even 33 dogs the proper attention, care, training and all that goes with them. I don't care what she says about "websites" being "outdated" with all the RS dogs and all the breeding (of litters she isn't keeping a puppy) at that rate you are a PM or Hoarder imo.

 

eta- just "who" are all these evil trial people that sell, sell, sell......if your dogs are good then they should be able to "work" and not need to be sold