Maralynn Posted May 30, 2009 Report Share Posted May 30, 2009 I took my little firecracker (aka Kipp) out on sheep today for the first time in several months. I did a little bit of balance work in the barnyard with him. He started out fairly level headed but after just a couple minutes he started to go into dive and bite mode. I backed him off, settled him down and then had bring the sheep (who had retreated into the barn) back out and ended on a good note. When he goes into dive and bite am I letting him get to worked up? Letting him work too close? Is it just part of the learning process (for me and him) when working with a really keen dog? It's so much different working with him than it was with Missy starting out. She needed confidence built up to the point that I woud encourage her to come in and be pushy at first. With Kipp I feel like I need to keep my foot on the brake all the time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSmitty Posted May 30, 2009 Report Share Posted May 30, 2009 I am too far inexperienced to give advice, but I think when Jack dives in (he doesn't grip, usually), it's because I'm in the wrong place at the wrong time. Part of it is him getting too worked up and I need to settle him down, but part of it is definitely me bubbling around out there. That's no help at all, is it? I'm looking forward to others' real answers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoseAmy Posted May 30, 2009 Report Share Posted May 30, 2009 First off with out seeing whats happening its hard to say. But one thing you said did strike me.."The sheep had retreated to the barn" If you are in an area where the sheep can get away that could be worriesome for a young dog. And that will cause a young dog to dive in and grip. It could just be that he's full of himself and taking cheap shots. The trick is to catch him just as he's thinking of diving in and tell him to get out of that and block him from the sheep until he gets back and settles down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maralynn Posted May 31, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2009 First off with out seeing whats happening its hard to say. But one thing you said did strike me.."The sheep had retreated to the barn" If you are in an area where the sheep can get away that could be worriesome for a young dog. And that will cause a young dog to dive in and grip. It could just be that he's full of himself and taking cheap shots. The trick is to catch him just as he's thinking of diving in and tell him to get out of that and block him from the sheep until he gets back and settles down. I really don't think he's worried about them getting away. They're not trying to get back in the barn - they only retreated when I called him off to settle him down. The sheep were being quite agreable and managable. But I've got some gates I can put up to see if it makes a difference. I'm also wondering if a larger area to work where I could push him off the sheep a bit might help. He is a very exciteable dog overall and I'm wondering if the smaller barnyard (maybe 60'x60' with 15 ewes) adds to the issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoseAmy Posted May 31, 2009 Report Share Posted May 31, 2009 Wow Maralynn that seem like an awfully small space especially with 15 sheep. That could be your problem if he's feeling the pressure and can't get off far enough he dives. Don't know if you read some of the questions I posted to Carol, but I have a 10 month old she devil. I started her in a 150' x 150' area with 4 sheep and it wasn't big enough. She could get off of the sheep far enough and she would just go into a frenzy. When I took her out to the 4 acre field she was like a different dog. How old is this dog? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denice Posted May 31, 2009 Report Share Posted May 31, 2009 Whenever I am having an issue with something I try to look for similarities when it happens and then once I think I know when it happens, I can maybe figure out why then go about giving an effective correction at the right time. I look for when it happens- are the sheep running, dog moving fast, tail up, is he maybe locked on, is he along a fence, same place in the working area, maybe same place on the sheep say 10:00, are you in a specific place or putting pressure somewhere... If there are reoccurring specifics then can narrow things down. What is tough is when all is going well and the dog dives and grips just for fun. I find that much more difficult to correct since I don't see it coming very often. If there is a friend who can watch and give you some insights that would be Great. I can see lots more from the other side of the fence. Denice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMSBORDERCOLLIES Posted May 31, 2009 Report Share Posted May 31, 2009 I really don't think he's worried about them getting away. They're not trying to get back in the barn - they only retreated when I called him off to settle him down. The sheep were being quite agreable and managable. But I've got some gates I can put up to see if it makes a difference. I'm also wondering if a larger area to work where I could push him off the sheep a bit might help. He is a very exciteable dog overall and I'm wondering if the smaller barnyard (maybe 60'x60' with 15 ewes) adds to the issue. If you have a larger area to work the dog in that would be much better. I don't know what the training level on your dog is but young dogs must be given enough room to get to where THEY are comfortable with the sheep. This is different with every dog. Also, you need to have a good stop on your dog so that when you get in these tight spots you can stop him when he is getting nervous and feeling the tension from the sheep. That is why he is diving in. He has not been taught to work in tight spaces yet. (calm and deliberate movements) Take him to a 1/2 acre field or paddock and work him on fences and in corners, (CALMLY) teaching him to approach his sheep with confidence and control. You do this by making him (with your stop command - "lie down" or "stand there", flank in between the sheep and the fence and then back the other way. Make him stop behind the sheep when he is on the fence and fetch them out to you just to let him know he's doing well. Lots of praise (don't lavish him - just a "good boy") and ALWAYS give the sheep a place to go. You must ALWAYS position yourself so that you can block the dog from going back out to stop the sheep and force him to go the way you want between the sheep and the fence. You must win this battle and it may be a tough one for a while but is well worth it. When you have this control on him then take him to your sheep at the barn and see what you can do with him. You'll find that you won't have this dive and bite dog any more but one that can work in all types of places. If you have any questions, and I'm sure you will, feel free to ask.....Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1sheepdoggal Posted May 31, 2009 Report Share Posted May 31, 2009 Exactly what Bob said. Got one myself that took a year to get out of doing that, and it works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maralynn Posted June 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2009 I'll try a larger area and see if that helps. That really makes sense. And I may just drive for a couple of hours to get a lesson or two so I can get a really good idea of how I should be handling him. Kipp is 4, but has had very little sheep time as I wanted to primarily train him for a search dog. Now that his search training is pretty solid and my other dog is getting older so I want to start getting him ready to handle sheep chores. I'd like to go to a clinic with him, but my summer schedule is crazy busy so that's not happening until fall at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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