Always Something to Learn

[Root Beer]

This is only loosely Agility related, but it is related to sports in general, and sport training, so I think it belongs here.

 

One thing that never ceases to amaze me is how much there is to learn about these dogs. Dean is teaching me far more than I ever could have expected!!

 

I posted recently that Dean doesn't enjoy group classes. He is extremely sensitive to social pressure and the more I tried to train - even making it "fun" for him - the less he wanted to do with it.

 

Recently I made the decision to stop trying to make a sport dog out of him and let him just go along for the ride if that's what he wants. He still goes to Agility class, but he hangs out in the car, comes in to run, and goes back to the car. It's not really like we are "in class" together.

 

As things often go, I ended up putting Dean into a new class - it's a clicks for tricks class, but we are doing a lot of Freestyle moves. Even though Dean has some Freestyle training, and, of course, clicker training, I decided to act like we know nothing and just kind of let Dean lead the way and see what I can learn about him. I had his crate set up and whenever he was anxious, he was welcome to hunker down in his crate to his heart's content. I would invite him out and invite him to participate, but he was free to decline that invitation and stay in the crate if he preferred.

 

At first he was nervous. We were working on having the dog stand in front of us. Now, Dean can do this, but he tends to stand crooked. I've worked on getting him straight using barriers, but since he was nervous, he was crooked. I asked the instructor what to do and she said, "just click and treat him. He doesn't need to be straight". Huh. I did. He started to relax. Such a simple little thing and it made a world of difference.

 

One thing about Dean that has been a bit of a challenge - he shuts down any time he perceives that he's "wrong" when we are working on something. This is something that I never intend for him to feel, but he often ends up expriencing this when I try to train to a specific goal.

 

The best part of the whole evening was the fact that he actually came out of his crate to do all of the class exercises. And he enjoyed himself. He was tentative, but I let him choose whether to go on or not and he chose to continue more often than not. I can't even express how much he liked that arrangement.

 

The thing that I really found was that I had to let go of trying to impose my specific expectations on him. That's not to say that there were not specific goals because there were - he circled, he backed up, he moved into the positions that we were teaching - but he was free to choose to engage or not in the first place. Once engaged, I used whatever he needed to help him be successful. When he was not engaged, I let him work through whatever he was processing instead of trying to move forward.

 

I found that this took a great deal of mental discipline on my part. My inclination - especially when I see "progress" is to jump ahead to the next goal. My other dogs go well with that sort of structure. Speedy is so excited about training and has so much drive and he will try anything and never worries about being "wrong". Maddie will do just about anything for food.

 

Dean is different. He really needs for me to let him process every piece of information at his pace. I feel like yesterday, for the first time, I started to learn how to actually allow him to do that. It's more than thinking outside the box - it's like thinking inside of a different box altogether. Like thinking in Dean's box. I think I caught a glimpse of what that looks like and it made a real impression.

 

I still hope that there will come a time when Dean will be able to relax and enjoy dog sports, but if he doesn't, that's OK. He is who he is. I feel that I've got a chance now to introduce him to training classes in a new way. Who knows - he might like it after all?!!?

[Northof49]

A lot of dogs will improve if you hand the reins of power over to a dog like Dean. You are going to find that he will be able to do more and more in circumstances where it was too stressful for him. How much free shaping do you do with the clicker? You may not be slicing the tomato thin enough with him, as your other dogs are fine with how you are training. Also with some dogs a little goes a long way - it takes them time to process what they are learning - they don't process the information as fast as it goes in.

 

Most of the time I use the the rule of count 10 -12 treats out and when you are done, give the dog a 2 - 5 minute break. That allows them to process the information fully. With other dogs, 5 click/treats are enough and they need to be able to process that information or else they seem to get overloaded and stressed. They process a lot slower so you can't put as much information in at one time.

[Root Beer]

How much free shaping do you do with the clicker?

 

Not a lot with Dean (although I do quite a bit with Speedy). Last year I pretty much gave up free shaping him when I observed him getting stressed by it. He got frustrated, I think, not knowing what I expected and if he didn't get clicked, he didn't really know what to do with himself.

 

I've had good results shaping with him when there are props involved. Shaping worked well for teaching the first step of 2 X 2's and he does well with shaping for going to stand in a hula hoop or for touching targets. It's clear to him in those instances that what we are doing has something to do with the prop and that's enough info for him.

 

You may not be slicing the tomato thin enough with him, as your other dogs are fine with how you are training.

 

Very true. I think I got a glimpse of that yesterday, too. When we were working with the heel position, I figured out that A ) I was clicking way late and B ) I was only clicking proper heel position instead of clicking approximations. When I started clicking approximations, he started to throw himself from front to heel with some enthusiasm. Ironically, by backing off my criteria, he more than met it! And his eyes were lit up with interest and enjoyment - something I very rarely see with him at a group class.

 

With side, I was only getting a tiny bit of body movement toward right heel, so I clicked/treated what he offered and left that for more work.

 

Like you said, with the others I can expect a lot more and they really get into it. That just didn't work for Dean. And until yesterday I could not figure out why.

 

Also with some dogs a little goes a long way - it takes them time to process what they are learning - they don't process the information as fast as it goes in.

 

And that's what I don't think I realized was happening. He's so smart and he does learn quickly, but it never occurred to me that he needs time to process.

 

He has always enjoyed training at home, so I do think that part of classes that stress him is that he doesn't get to process. The crate structure seems to help with that. He seems to go in there, eat some treats, checks out mentally for a few minutes, and then he comes back ready to do something new. He may very well be processing information during that break.

[Northof49]

Not a lot with Dean (although I do quite a bit with Speedy). Last year I pretty much gave up free shaping him when I observed him getting stressed by it. He has always enjoyed training at home, so I do think that part of classes that stress him is that he doesn't get to process. The crate structure seems to help with that. He seems to go in there, eat some treats, checks out mentally for a few minutes, and then he comes back ready to do something new. He may very well be processing information during that break.

 

As long as they are doing a strong default behaviour as sits, downs, targetting, or even throw the tennis ball or play tug with the dog, the brain is still processing the information that was just imput into it.

[Ninso]

So very true!

 

I think Lok is a lot like Dean. I've found the same thing you have with him--accepting and rewarding less than perfection is the quickest way to get to perfection. Keep it very, very short. Giving him more control and letting him make the decision to participate is the best way to get him engaged. He has some confidence issues (e.g., like Dean, shuts down if he thinks he's getting it wrong). On top of that he gets bored with repetition. No two dogs are alike! With Jun I've found I often don't push her hard enough because I'm so used to the way I have to train Lok! She is up for anything, doesn't mind repetition, and the harder I push her, the harder she tries. She comes with her own challenges though--like making up her own games after she learns mine and decides they're not interesting enough! I think the innovation dog training requires is what makes it fun!

[WildFlower]

Just wanted to say that I think this is a great thread. I think that Daisy is very similar to Dean and Lok. We were really doing well at agility and then she just completely shut down. (Tail tucked, walking through the course, very unsure of herself - and I never once harshly corrected her for a mistake while in our lessons.)

 

We are taking a break over the summer and going to stock lessons which she seems to really like. At the end of the summer I am going to try agility again but at a much slower pace with a different set of goals.

[Root Beer]

We are taking a break over the summer

 

I've found with Dean that breaks are good. Every time I've decided to "quit" something with him and not touched it for a long time, his anxieties about that thing tend to vanish by the time we pick it back up again.

 

Granted, it always helps when I start up again with a new approach that is more suitable to him, but taking that time seems to give him a chance to decompress mentally and it sets him up to start over again in a good frame of mind.

[2 Devils]

Tempe is similar to all these dogs. I need to accept the little things in group settings. When we took agility classes and at the end of session they had everyone do run throughs. Tempe did pretty good and only once did she miss a jump which was my fault. We just kept on going like nothing happened. When she makes mistakes I can't correct it in group settings because she is stressed by the group setting so accept what she gives.

 

She is actually pretty good at agility after only being in 2 sessions and an instructor at another facility wanted to evaluate her before allowing her in a Open Class setting where we can just go and work things. This instructor competes a lot and was impressed with Tempe. I guess I should have concentrated more on agility with her...

 

A couple months ago with a lot of work on my part and melatonin Tempe was able to compete in a full flyball tourney without shutting down. She was actually happy on the lanes like she is at practice with people she knows. I did not rerun her if there was a mistake. It was all positive and tons of treats were involved but she wanted to play and dragged me across the parking lot.

 

I have now started Tempe on Clomicalm and will see how that does overall. She seems happier in general which is so nice.

[Root Beer]

Wow - we just had a great week! Last night was Agility night. We were outside for the first time. Dean generally does better outside, but lately his anxiety has extended even to outdoor Agility contexts.

 

I used the crate again as a place for him to hide when he was worried and it worked out wonderfully. Again, he was invited out but left to decide for himself. He did choose to come out and do Agility.

 

He ran better than he has in ages, and by "better", I mean with more confidence. I even saw sparks of enthusiasm, particularly on the dog walk and, oddly, on the teeter.

 

It's funny because he used to be terrified of the teeter and avoided the dog walk and he loved jumps and tunnels. Now he is leery of jumps and tunnels and adores the teeter and is pretty happy on the dog walk.

 

He still isn't comfortable enough for me to really work on skills with him, but he did enjoy running and interacting with the equipment. That was a great step.

 

The other nice thing about being outside is that I can keep him with me in his crate, rather than putting him in the car when he's not running. He can't handle the indoor Agility noise yet, but outside it's not an issue. It was a refreshing change!