Caroline Reichard Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 Hi Folks, I'd be interested in hearing about folks' experiences with spider bites. It seems like one of my dogs was bitten by a brown recluse in his foot on Saturday morning. Perhaps not a brown recluse, but definitely something that has the meat tenderizer kind of venom, as he has lots of swelling and some necrosis. He's gone to the vet (2x so far), and his prognosis is good. But I'm interested in any experiences or special insights you might have that I should know. About a dozen years ago I had a dog bitten by a rattlesnake, and Jim is not nearly as sick as that dog was, but he is still a pretty sick cookie. Looking at some of the online disaster pictures of severe cases are enough to make me loose my lunch, and I'm concerned about the long-term outcome of the necrosis. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beach BCs Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 Keep a VERY close eye on that wound. A friends dog was bitten by a brown recluse and it went from looking ok in the first couple of days to having to have a large area of tissue cut out and a large drain put in. By comparison I was bitten by one years ago and had very littler trouble with no meds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caroline Reichard Posted May 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 Keep a VERY close eye on that wound. A friends dog was bitten by a brown recluse and it went from looking ok in the first couple of days to having to have a large area of tissue cut out and a large drain put in. By comparison I was bitten by one years ago and had very littler trouble with no meds. This is what I've read. I've outlined the margins of the necrosis w/ a sharpie so I can tell if it's spreading. Since this area surrounds pads and nail beds, I'm curious (if that's the right word) about what might happen. Did that dog make a good recovery? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 I was just reading an old thread (about lepto), wherein Denise Wall mentioned that her Mick had almost died from a Black Widow Spider bite. Not sure how often she reads the boards these days, but you could try contacting her directly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beach BCs Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 Yes, he made a good recovery. If I remember correctly the wound looked semi ok but the dog was showing obvious discomfort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenajo Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 Recluse bites are pretty rare, but what you describe sounds like one. In humans they can take months to heal even with special wound therapy. The tissue will granulate in eventually, though very large bite areas may end up needing skin grafts. I've had one dog that appeared to have one, and after several months the area (about 1x2 inches) finally closed in. It was a leg bite, right below the hock, so there wasn't as much blood supply there to support healing. She hasn't had an difficulties since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 Farleigh was diagnosed with a brown recluse bite 5 or 6 years ago. I must be getting old because I don't remember all the details now, but the necrotic area started out relatively small and spread up his front leg. I would say it was several inches long at least. I remember soaking the affected leg daily (in Epsom salts maybe) and I'm sure he was on antibiotics and maybe even antiinflammatories. He is not the best patient in the world, but he recovered fully and all the skin on his leg grew back in just fine, without even leaving a major scar. You wouldn't be able to tell today that he ever had such an ugly "wound" back then. And it really was ugly. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angel09 Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 Our boxer was bitten by a spider a few months ago. We live somewhat in the hills. That evening she started vomiting and had some swelling around her face. I gave her some Benadryl. Hoping that would help. It didn't so I took her to work with me (I work as a vet tech) the next day. She had hundreds of hives all over her body. My boss thought it was Cancer because it spread so quickly. He took biopsies and they came back a arthropod cells. She lost all the hair on her head and some of her face. I have attached a picture. She was so sick wouldn't eat anything. Not even baby food. We had to feed her a product called Renal Care. That is all she would lap up. Moorea was on 2 types of Antibiotics, Steroids and Benadryl. So know we have to keep benadryl and steroids on hand at all times just in case. She is much better now and her hair has grown back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnewe2 Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 I have attached a picture That totally freaks me out. I can handle any snake I've ever ran into but spiders just creep me out and looking at those pictures gives me good reason to freak. So gald she's ok. I hope Caroline's dog fares much better. We had tons of Brown Recluse down in AR. Everytime I saw them they seemed to be aimed right at the dogs. But we never suffered any bites. We also had tons of scorpions. They weren't as bad for bites but way scarier to see crawling around on the ceilings or floors. I'm sure Dew was stung by one, as she had a fear of dust bunnies on the hard floor. They did look like scorpions if you didn't look close. I'm always amazed at what can freak these dogs out, but 1500 pound momma hiefers are no big deal. I'm glad I'm here in CO for that reason alone but now the bees an wasps are over taking us. I'm not freaking out but thinking about getting an eppi pen for just in case. I don't know if anyone is alergic in our house. We've been really lucky but I also understand you can develope allergies to them at any point. I always keep benadryl in my car and house for the dogs or us humans. I also heard we have black widows here, but we had them in AR and they were pretty hard to find unless you went looking. I DON'T! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 Black widows are *everywhere* here. You have to be careful turning over stock tanks or anything else, because it's more likely they'll be one or more under there than not. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caroline Reichard Posted May 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 Well, it's a good thing that there's no beauty standard for running in a border collie trial, because Jim sure will look grotesque if his leg gets like that dog's head. (No offense intended, of course. The dog itself is obviously an animal of rare beauty and distinction suffering bravely through a hideous, though temporary, disfigurement.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beach BCs Posted May 20, 2009 Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 My friend is going to send me pics of her dog's bite. When she does I'll post back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoseAmy Posted May 20, 2009 Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 My dog was bite by a brown recluse spider summer before last. Not very pretty. It was a worst case possible bite. It got him on the inside of his front leg about an inch up from his knee...on the vein no less. The swelling traveled up his leg and he developed an orange size swelling on his elbow. Poor boy could not lie down. It was to be drain the next morning but during the night it broke on its own. He got a small sore at the site and then hour by hour the wound got bigger and bigger, the skin was dying and turning black. It was really something I swear you could watch the wound enlarge. Dog started chewing and licking..vet said that was fine because he was removing the dead tissue his self. If he started in on good tissue he would have to be stopped. In the beginning he was on oral antibiotics..when things got worst..heading into the weekend of course.the vet thought he may have to go on iv antibiotics. He sent me home with an order for the emergency vet just in case..Then he gave me injectable antibiotics ...2 different kinds to hit him up with every 12 hours. Vet warned me that there could be several surgeries and it may take months to heal. Also (and I think this helped alot) I was to soak it in saline sodium cloride..twice aday. Long story short no surgery was needed and in 2 weeks time it was all but healed. Does have a Harry Potter scar running the lenght of his leg, but his hair coves it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2 Devils Posted May 20, 2009 Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 Brown recluse bites may be rare but my husband was bit twice. He had to go on IV antibiotics both times. He spent a lot of time at the doctor's. Luckily his tissue did not die off too bad. He has a couple scars but nothing horrible. Spider bites are horrible. I hate spiders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnewe2 Posted May 20, 2009 Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 I always look at where I'm putting my hands when grabbing a stocktank, rock or even a bale of hay. I've seen lots of black widows but it was always when i was doing something where they might be hiding. I never saw one cruising around looking for me. Brown R. were much easier to see. They seem to be in everything. Again, since I have such a feat of spiders I'm always looking for them. My son was facinated with Orb spiders, which there were tons of in AR. They make the most beautiful webs I've ever seen. He was always taking pictures of them. They were a bit less scary since you could see them a mile away. I always thought we were really luck that none of the dogs were bit while in spider heaven down in AR. The house I'm living in now has tons of holes in the floor. The spiders are more comfortable than we are. I won't walk around without slippers on. And I always flip the cover back before getting in bed. There's brown rec. and reg. spiders but I"ve found brown rec. are spiders that don't go looking for me! Maybe the name says allot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted May 20, 2009 Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 I always look at where I'm putting my hands when grabbing a stocktank, rock or even a bale of hay. I've seen lots of black widows but it was always when i was doing something where they might be hiding. I never saw one cruising around looking for me. True. Unfortunately a lot of work around here involves handling stuff where the black widows hide, so you need to always be aware. Yuck. My son was facinated with Orb spiders, which there were tons of in AR. They make the most beautiful webs I've ever seen. He was always taking pictures of them. They were a bit less scary since you could see them a mile away. I love the orb weavers too. Beautiful spiders and beautiful webs! I"ve found brown rec. are spiders that don't go looking for me! Maybe the name says allot! Oh yeah. I have always made it a habit to turn any clothing that hasn't been worn in a while inside out and give it a good shake too, just to be safe. Other than the bite that Farleigh got I've never had any run ins with brown recluses, and I'll be happy for it to stay that way. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denise Wall Posted May 20, 2009 Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 Mick was bitten by a Black Widow Spider ten years ago when he was 1.5 years old. BWS bites are not like brown recluse spider bites in their presentation and course of disease. Here's a good quick review of both types: spider bites Excerpt for BWS bites: "Black widow spider: Signs of the black widow spider bite include regional tenderness and numbness followed by hyperesthesia. Muscle pain (severe) and cramping of the muscles of the chest, abdomen, back, and other large muscles occur. Abdominal rigidity without tenderness is a classic sign of envenomation by the black widow spider. Seizures are possible. Respiration may be compromised because of the abdominal cramping. Muscle rigidity decreases with time followed by muscle paralysis. Increased blood pressure and heart rate may be seen. Death is caused by respiratory or cardiovascular collapse. Extremely sensitive to black widow spider bites, cats show signs of severe pain, drooling, restlessness, and early paralysis. Death is common in cats." Mick's main symptoms were convulsions (seizures) involving only the muscles along the right side of his body where the bite occurred, extreme rigidity, especially a classic "praying"pose where he was sitting very stiffly with his head bent down as if in prayer, slobbering, and yelping in pain when he tried to move or was moved. He was found at the vet's to have two small swellings on the right side of his muzzle consistent with a BWS bite. There is not much skin involvement unlike brown recluse spider bites. The neuromuscular complications of BWS bites however are very, very painful. It took about two weeks for him to recover. When physically stressed to the limit, he will still sometimes tick to the right in the head and neck area from the permanent damage to the nerves and muscles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnewe2 Posted May 20, 2009 Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 True. Unfortunately a lot of work around here involves handling stuff where the black widows hide, so you need to always be aware. Yuck. Now I have to look for rattlers when I'm doing stuff around here. Some people say you won't see them but I'm gonna look since I"m already looking for spiders. Not to change the subject but my son went for a ride at dusk last night. He called my cell, I missed it but heard it ringing, by the time I got there he was calling DH's phone. Since this is his first car I started freaking out thinking he was in a ditch or something. So I called right back, even though that meant he had to answer the phone while driving.... He was sitting on the side of the road (I think it was one road away) watching a young bear play in the drainage ditch. OK...so now I believe there are bears close! I'm so glad the LGD puppies are growing so fast. I know they wouldn't be a match for a bear who was mad, but at least I'm not worried that they are going to be a big cat appetizer. I'm pretty sure their bark is already warning critters to stay away! At least I sure hope so! TO bad they don't work for spiders! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valhalla Posted May 20, 2009 Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 Hi Caroline, sorry to change the subject, but how is Mirk doing these days? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beach BCs Posted May 20, 2009 Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 Here are the pics and a brief description... December 8, 2007, at the park (the only normal pic, not named by date). Presumably the trip where he was bitten. You see there is no sign of anything on the left hip, where he was bitten. December 9, 2007, approximately 24 hours after the park trip. This actually started showing up within 2 hours of the trip but I didn't think it warranted pictures until the next day. December 12, 2007, 4 days after the bite. You can see the area is larger and swollen, The center black spot is hard as a rock. I can't find the pictures of it, but a couple of days later it developed a green ring outside of the black area. December 21, 2007, 13 days after the bite, surgery to remove the dead tissue and place the drain in. The incision was about 6" long and required 20 some-odd stitches to close up. December 22, 2007, day after surgery. December 26, 2007, drain tube removed. A couple more to follow... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beach BCs Posted May 20, 2009 Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 Recovery... January 2, 2008, stitches removed. January 10, 2008, healing progress 1 month post-bite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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