Jump to content
BC Boards

Hello and question about stock dog training.


Recommended Posts

Hi all. I’ve been lurking on these boards forever :rolleyes: , but have a question now that I’d really like some input on. Just by way of an intro, I have a 1.5 y.o. border, Merry. She’s ABCA registered out of working lines, but we live in the city and do agility. She’s really fantastic and has taught me a lot, but we’re only starting to compete now, as she was the runt of the litter and has had more medical problems than you can shake a stick at: hip dysplasia, fractured leg and toe, dental issues, iliopsoas strain, etc. And, yes, her breeder is pretty well known and checked all the things that should have been checked in the parents, I think Mer was just unlucky…although I’ll probably try to get any future pup from someone who’s more active in trialing/using their dogs for farm work, Mer’s breeder isn’t doing that as much anymore.

 

Anyways, we have a long way to go, as dog and handler, due to her being the first dog I’ve owned on my own and all of the setbacks we’ve had with her medical history, but I wouldn’t give up on her for the world.

 

But right now, I’m in a bit of a pickle. I’m a vet student interested in behavioral medicine, and have taken a summer job with a trainer who works with reactive and aggressive dogs. Sounded like a good way to get some hands-on experience, and I’m really looking forward to this summer. Problem is, she trains AKC/AHBA-style herding, too, and has offered to give Mer and I lessons this summer.

 

So, that sounded like it might be fun; not as a permanent pursuit (probably, although apparently these sheep things are addictive?), but to do for the summer. Until I started reading about AKC “trials,” and decided that I wouldn’t let my dog within ten miles of running in one. Not that I’m going to start denigrating the folks who participate, I’m sure they have their own motivations/reasons, enjoy it, whatever. But even if my dog never made it past the post at a novice USBCHA trial (which she might not…my fault, not hers), I’d personally rather try and fail at USBCHA than win an AKC trial. Even though we’d probably stick with agility, I’d rather her and I learn the correct way of going about things with sheep.

 

This leaves me with the unpalatable option of declining my boss’s offer (as politely as possible, because I’m still definitely going to be working there this summer) and not working sheep at all (even though they'll be right there! oh the agony). Alternatively, I could read as much as I can about stock work with a BC and try to train Mer “myself” (while heading off any undesirable instructions from our “trainer”), or somehow find a USBCHA trainer in our area and get a few lessons this summer. So we can then properly practice on the sheep at the farm I’m working on. While somehow not insulting my boss. Sheesh.

 

Any suggestions about the merits of working sheep this summer, as aided by either the knowledge I can gain from reading books or lessons from a USBCHA handler, would be appreciated. I emailed Cheryl Williams to see if she's accepting students, guess I'll see what she says. Any other suggestions on USBCHA handlers/trainers in eastern PA (near Allentown), would also be fantastic! And thanks to all in advance for any advice you can give about how to approach this.

 

JW

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Any suggestions about the merits of working sheep this summer, as aided by either the knowledge I can gain from reading books or lessons from a USBCHA handler, would be appreciated. I emailed Cheryl Williams to see if she's accepting students, guess I'll see what she says. Any other suggestions on USBCHA handlers/trainers in eastern PA (near Allentown), would also be fantastic! And thanks to all in advance for any advice you can give about how to approach this.

 

JW

 

Does your boss work border collies or another breed? If you are not planning on trialing and just want to have fun, the advantage of sheep availabllity, if they are appropriate sheep, would be hard for me to tell you to pass up. Can you talk to some handlers in the area and get a feel for this person's experience? If I were you I would do lessons with a USBCHA person and possibly still work your bosses' sheep too. You might need to get to the point at your "real" trainer where you are confident that you can show that your dog is in control, that way your boss may be willing to let you practice without too much input. My answer to this would probably change if you thought you might want to be serious about trialing, but it sounds like you just want to learn about working dogs and give your dog something to do. Read books and watch videos in the meantime, educate yourself about what good work looks like. If you do want to trial a little, there is nothing wrong with AHBA trials , compared to AKC I've found that they sometimes reward good, at hand practical work and are a nice environment for novices.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

JW,

 

There will be a Kathy Knox clinic in Quakertown in July at kerales Farm. Don't know if there are still any openings, but would be well worth auditing the clinic.

 

http://keralesbordercollies.homestead.com/index.html

 

Cheryl is at the Blue Grass dog trial in KY, so it will be a few days till you hear from her.

 

If you want PM me for other information.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Problem is, she trains AKC/AHBA-style herding, too,

 

JW, I wouldn't worry about the "too." There are plenty of Open handlers whose students do AKC herding trials. I would look at what she is doing with her dogs; if she is running them in USBHCA trials at Ranch and Open level and if she has trained them herself, I think the person has probably got the right focus and tools to get you started. Just be sure the person understands what your goals are (USBCHA or NEBCA trials rather than AKC trials).

 

Nancy's suggestion is a good one; there were one or two working spots open at the clinic as of a couple weeks ago, and Kathy's clinic is well worth going to. Also if you haven't already, check out NEBCA and LittleHats to see if there are any other contacts in your area. And, I think Eve Marschark may (sometimes?) do lessons if you can track down contact info for her.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks all. The person I'm interning with really only does AHBA and AKC, she owns border collies but I don't think she does any USBCHA with them, she does alot of German style herding with her GSDs? I don't know if I can afford the Kathy Knox clinic, although I'm seriously consider auditing it...right now, we both love agility, I'm trying to save up to get some more equipment. I'd like to try herding, especially with having sheep available this summer, but more to see how much we like it, and if we really fell in love with it, then I would think about pursuing it instead of agility. It's just something our ortho vet recommended, on account of Mer's hips.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you audit the clinic, you will most likely be able to get plenty of recommendations and contacts among the other attendees. Plus, it's well worth going to watch! Be sure you plan to stay for the whole thing and also try to attend one or more evening meals, too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"But right now, I’m in a bit of a pickle. I’m a vet student interested in behavioral medicine, and have taken a summer job with a trainer who works with reactive and aggressive dogs. Sounded like a good way to get some hands-on experience, and I’m really looking forward to this summer. Problem is, she trains AKC/AHBA-style herding, too, and has offered to give Mer and I lessons this summer."

 

Go for it.

 

Be aware that you are likely to encounter either veiled or outright anti-border collie prejudice. Most of the trainers who don't own and use primarily border collies have chips on their shoulders regarding what constitutes a handy dog. The boundary course, meaning AKC Course C sometimes referred to as tending, mavens seem to be especially prone to this failing. In addition, trainers who own border collies but trial in AKC/AHBA only are without exception less knowledgeable about getting the best out of a talented dog than those who train for and trial successfully in open USBCHA/ISDS type trials.

 

Try to study up a bit beforehand. Auditing the Kathy Knox clinic is a great idea.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In addition, trainers who own border collies but trial in AKC/AHBA only are without exception less knowledgeable about getting the best out of a talented dog than those who train for and trial successfully in open USBCHA/ISDS type trials.

 

I agree, and this is why I would be inclined NOT to go for it. If I were you, I'd decline the offer, keep your focus on agility for now, attend some USBCHA trials and some clinics given by HA handlers like Kathy Knox, and watch how they work with beginner dogs. My bet is you'll see a big difference between the way they train and the way your boss trains. If that's the case, you really don't want to start your dog via these lessons. If what you see at the trials and clinics makes you think this is something you'd like to pursue with your dog, you can find a way to do it after this summer.

 

Of course, if I thought there was a tactful way you could refuse the lessons from your boss, but use your boss's sheep to train using methods you learn from lessons with a HA handler elsewhere, I'd say to go for it. But I can't figure out how you could do that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Eileen and I have reached two different conclusions because we think the offer comes from two different trainers. The one that occurred to me is okay; the one that occurred to her is not. I suggest you write Eileen privately with the name of the trainer.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...