monicah Posted May 10, 2009 Report Share Posted May 10, 2009 Hi! Both of my dogs have problems with leash aggression. I have read about it, tried a lot of methods and trained them separately. Kira improved a lot, could even do tricks for me out on walks while other dogs walked by barking. She could also sit by me and watch other dogs walk pass us and get treats for her good behavior. Off leash she will play with other male dogs and she hates other female dogs for some reason. Zimba improved for a while but then I got a feeling he knew that I was looking for other dogs out on walks. He got really stressed, pulled on the leash and all of my hard work was gone. He chose to bark and scream at other dogs rather than focusing on me for treats. Even if we saw dogs from a long distance away. Off leash he is very calm around other dogs and plays well with even male dogs. If I walk them both and we meet other dogs, they will be just as bad as they were in the beginning. I have to grab their collars and drag them with me and they will stop barking when I let go and the other dogs have passed us. I have a feeling that I will never be able to get rid of the leash aggression. I have bought a Gentle Leader for Zimba and he doesn't like it, but he doesn't try to get it off. I wonder if I should buy one for Kira too and use them as a training tool. Has anyone else had success with the Gentle Leader on leash aggressive dogs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertranger Posted May 10, 2009 Report Share Posted May 10, 2009 I have a similoar probloem with Jin. Normally he's fine on a leash. Only if a dog comes along that's barky or snarky he goes nuts. Normally I can controll it but I want he rpblem to cease. What I've done so far is when it happens to make him sit and be quiet and stuff a treat down his face. Sometimes it workls sometimes not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms.DaisyDuke Posted May 10, 2009 Report Share Posted May 10, 2009 A gentle leader, if used properly can work. I can't do much for corrections to my dog or she'll just shut down, so I've had to find a different way to deal with her leash aggression. Pam Dennison has a great book called "How to right a dog gone wrong". It deals with all sorts of stuff and has extremely detailed training information. Most of it is for dealing with an extremely aggressive dog, but can still work in your situation. Remember, being consistent and keeping your dogs under threashold until they can absolutley handle it will be the key. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monicah Posted May 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2009 The method I have had most success with is by rewarding them for looking at a dog. I use a clicker and click when they spot a dog. Zimba did so well for a while. I had him off leash in a dog park recently and he did sometimes come back to me for a treat when he saw other dogs, so I know he has not forgotten the training. I hope the Gentle Leader will make it easier for me to get his head in my direction and then click and reward for looking at me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phej Posted May 10, 2009 Report Share Posted May 10, 2009 Both of our dogs are leash reactive -- one to both people and dogs, the other one just to dogs. I never leash walk them together. There is no point, they feed off each other and react in situations they wouldn't individually. I live in a city apartment so its a bit of a challenge, but doable. I usually load the dogs in the car in the morning and run them somewhere off leash. Then in the afternoon, I walk them and work with them separately. Works for us. If I have to walk them somewhere together, I use gentle leaders for extra control (and the GLs also calm them down), otherwise, they are fine on a flat collar. When walked separately, I am at a point where I can quite easily prevent them from reacting in most situations. I use the Control Unleashed 'Look at that' game (clicking and treating for looking at the scary thing and then turning back to me) and it has worked great. But to be honest, I don't think the reactivity will ever go away completely, its just a part of who they are... Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms.DaisyDuke Posted May 10, 2009 Report Share Posted May 10, 2009 Zimba did so well for a while. I had him off leash in a dog park recently and he did sometimes come back to me for a treat when he saw other dogs, so I know he has not forgotten the training. When you say "He did well for a while" and "He did sometimes come back to me for a treat", it makes me think that you are not being consistent enough. Phej is right, it may never go away 100%, but you can make it significantly better. I would work with them one on one in situations that are under their thresholds. Be it 50ft away from other dogs or 10ft. Figure out what distance they are comfortable at and work them there until you can serious focus out of them, then move up a couple feet at a time until you are as close as you think you need to have them comfortable at. Never moving closer or changing context until they have solid focus in the step you are at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monicah Posted May 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2009 phej, that is how I train them as well. I let them run off leash for an hour in the woods after work. Then later I walk them separately and work on their leash aggression. I was considering using GL the way you are, when I have to walk them somewhere together and during training. It's just take a lot of time to walk them separately every day and I've been training them for a long time that way. When you say "He did well for a while" and "He did sometimes come back to me for a treat", it makes me think that you are not being consistent enough. Phej is right, it may never go away 100%, but you can make it significantly better. I would work with them one on one in situations that are under their thresholds. Be it 50ft away from other dogs or 10ft. Figure out what distance they are comfortable at and work them there until you can serious focus out of them, then move up a couple feet at a time until you are as close as you think you need to have them comfortable at. Never moving closer or changing context until they have solid focus in the step you are at. I think Zimba understood what I was planning to do when I took him out on walks. He knew that he was going to meet dogs. He did extremely well until he figured it out. The stress level goes way up when I take him out for a walk alone. I will continue the same way as I have, but I hope the GL will calm him down some. He was off leash when he came back for a treat and I wasn't training him at that moment. I just let him walk around off leash and meet the other dogs. He decided to play with some of the dogs and when he noticed a new dog coming towards him, he would sometimes turn around to me and look at me with his "there's a dog, where's my treat?" look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ringo's Dad Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 I highly recommend a book called Animals in Translation by Temple Grandin....... you will be AMAZED google her name .......buy the book.......set back and be blown away....... Not a dog trainging book you will get a new understanding of you animals and yourself One of the most exciting and interesting books i have ever read George /// Ringo's Dad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monicah Posted May 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2009 I am about to cry now. My friend came over to show me her new 8 weeks old puppy. I was standing outside my condo with her and asked if my dog Zimba could come outside and meet the puppy, because I know he's really good with puppies. As I opened the door to get Zimba, Kira freaked out and wanted to come out too. I thought I'd just let Kira meet the puppy as well. Kira will be 1 year old on Monday and has never met a puppy before. She sniffed the puppy in the face and the puppy wagged its tale and was very happy. Then she growled at the puppy like she was about to attack it. I grabbed her leash and put her inside the condo again. I apologized to my friend and told her that Kira has never met a puppy before. My friend then let Zimba meet the puppy, but the puppy screamed when he saw Zimba. Zimba was calm and carefully sniffed the puppy, but my friend had to pick it up because the puppy was afraid of Zimba. I feel so sad now because Kira scared the puppy. I am also shocked that she behaved that way. I told my friend that maybe it was the wrong time and place to let Kira meet the puppy. She has never been "aggressive" off leash and this was a puppy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phej Posted May 16, 2009 Report Share Posted May 16, 2009 I am also shocked that she behaved that way. I told my friend that maybe it was the wrong time and place to let Kira meet the puppy. She has never been "aggressive" off leash and this was a puppy! My female is not reactive off leash either... unless its a puppy. Puppies are bouncy and move in a 'weird' way that freaks her out. I dont think its that unusual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lrayburn Posted May 17, 2009 Report Share Posted May 17, 2009 Zimba was calm and carefully sniffed the puppy, but my friend had to pick it up because the puppy was afraid of Zimba. Plenty of adult dogs don't like puppies. If she just growled and didn't jump the pup, the pup should be fine. However, it is very important that people don't baby nervous pups as it reinforces the pup's anxiety. Patricia McConnell's pamphlet "Fiesty Fido - Help for the Leash Aggressive Dog" will cost you about $8 on Amazon - check out the link here. This is an excellent resource since it breaks the training process down and addresses the behavioral modification on a step-by-step basis. Lisa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monicah Posted May 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2009 I already have Feisty Fido and it's a very good book. I will let Zimba meet the puppy again but not Kira. Zimba treats all puppies like they are his puppies. Kira saw the puppy from a distance yesterday and she acted like she was seeing a cat. I have decided to train Kira every day with the clicker and expose her to other dogs, cats and horses, because she freaks out around them. Hopefully I'll be able to walk my dogs with my friend and her puppy soon because I know that is something my friend really want us to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nancy in AZ Posted May 18, 2009 Report Share Posted May 18, 2009 Was Kira's posture clearly one of aggression/tension when she met the puppy? I ask because my Kit especially (but all my dogs to some extent) growls and sounds fierce during play. What was her body language telling you? Were hackles up? Eyes wide open, mouth tense or pursed, stiff-legged? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monicah Posted May 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2009 I was behind her so I couldn't see her face, but I think she was nervous about meeting the puppy and told the puppy to get away from her. My friend picked up the puppy as soon as she started to growl at it and I pulled Kira away from the puppy. I actually don't think Kira would have hurt the puppy had we not interfered. I had a successful walk today with Kira. I saw a girl with a dog and decided to follow her. Kira saw the dog and chose to look at me for treats. Then a dog came running towards us from a yard right by the road. Kira stopped and looked at the dog. I decided to let her decide what she wanted to do. Go argue with the dog or follow me and get treats. She turned around and came to me while looking at my face, and the amazing thing is that she looked so happy! I hope I can teach her to ignore all dogs. I really want to try agility with both of them and I don't want this leash aggression to be a problem if we ever compete in agility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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