Leash Biting (You Tell Me)

[pansmom]

Sometimes it happens when we pass other dogs. Sometimes it happens for No Good Reason. I used to just ignore it, but since I was told it was a control/dominance thing months ago, I have been correcting the behavior by telling her "drop it" or "no." Simple verbal correction gets her to stop 90% of the time and refocus on running, but none of the following corrections, all of which work to get her to stop the behavior in the moment, have worked to stop the behavior from happening at all (in order of most recent trial to possibly bad advice I tried long long ago):

- telling no, drop it, then praising 30 seconds later

- telling no, drop it, then praising immediately upon compliance

- simply telling no, drop it

- stopping the bike everytime she does it (to this, she responded by starting to use leash biting as communication that she wanted to stop running and potty or inspect something--in other words it increased the frequency of the behavior and made it meaningful)

- wobbling the bike in response

- leash jerks

- making her wear a nylon open-end muzzle at the first of the bike ride or through the bike ride (this was not fun, even though she is acclimatized to the muzzle and likes it ok, she didn't like wearing it out in public and would shut down)

Should I just ignore it? That's what I did in the beginning (I was like oh how cute, Pan wants to walk herself, haha) and she didn't seem to do it as much back then. But of course that was when she was younger.

 

Also, as a corollary: every time I try to leash Pan for her walk, she thinks it's play time. She wants to rough house, nipping, rolling over, jumping, biting leash, there is no growling or biting or snarling or any nervous behavior at all - she is just so excited to be going for a walk she cannot calm down. I have tried dramatically shunning her the second she goes into play mode and refusing her the walk until she calms down and lets me put the leash on without incident, I have tried telling her in a no-nonsense tone "I'm not takin any of your nonsense today Pan, sit," I have tried putting her in a sit and down-stay and approaching her with confidence, I have

tried varying the place in which I put her leash on (away from the door). But all of these methods have worked a couple times then stopped working afterward.

Thoughts, anyone?

 

ETA: ALSO SHE IS SO ENERGETIC AT THE BEGINNING OF A BIKE RIDE OR WALK THAT SHE PULLS SOMETHING AWFUL. Like a wild horse. I finally have her to the point through repetition of "sit" and "wait" commands that she sits immediately outside the back door, sits behind the fence, and sits outside of the fence, waiting for me to say "GO," but the second I say "OK Pan let's go" she is off like a rocket. And I should probably mention I let her literally pull me on roller skates for an hour a day from the time she was about four to seven months, before the trainer told me I shouldn't do that if I ever wanted her to walk normal. (Sidebar: the only time this hasn't been a problem is when I was putting the muzzle on her. With the muzzle on her, she is calm as a cucumber and walks at my side without pulling at all.)

[Fiacha7j]

Had a similar problem w/ Zeke biting the leash while biking for a while, and decided that I don't mind working on it w/ him while walking, but I'd just as soon not deal with it while I'm on a bike.

I ended up getting a contraption that hooks on the bike, that holds the dog fairly steady right at the side of the bike, but has a large spring that allows some latitude to move It's called a Springer. I got mine from the local bike shop (the lady also runs a husky rescue) but found a website for them at http://www.springerusa.com/. I love it, I feel like both of us are safer and more stable without so much play in the leash, and seems to have allowed Zeke to relax and just enjoy running. Might be worth checking out. The one thing to watch for is that the harness and connectors that come w/ it are not the best. Zeke broke the connectors w/ in about 10 min, so we rplc'd them w/ carabiners and a bungee cord. On the other hand, my Mom's 85 lb GSD has never broken the connectors on hers, so maybe ours was just a lemon, or maybe Zeke's a nut (w/ #2 being a safer bet, really).

Anyway, doesn't exactly answer the question, but it may give you a way to just enjoy biking w/o having to worry over the leash.

[pansmom]

Had a similar problem w/ Zeke biting the leash while biking for a while, and decided that I don't mind working on it w/ him while walking, but I'd just as soon not deal with it while I'm on a bike.

I ended up getting a contraption that hooks on the bike, that holds the dog fairly steady right at the side of the bike, but has a large spring that allows some latitude to move It's called a Springer. I got mine from the local bike shop (the lady also runs a husky rescue) but found a website for them at http://www.springerusa.com/. I love it, I feel like both of us are safer and more stable without so much play in the leash, and seems to have allowed Zeke to relax and just enjoy running. Might be worth checking out. The one thing to watch for is that the harness and connectors that come w/ it are not the best. Zeke broke the connectors w/ in about 10 min, so we rplc'd them w/ carabiners and a bungee cord. On the other hand, my Mom's 85 lb GSD has never broken the connectors on hers, so maybe ours was just a lemon, or maybe Zeke's a nut (w/ #2 being a safer bet, really).

Anyway, doesn't exactly answer the question, but it may give you a way to just enjoy biking w/o having to worry over the leash.

 

Thanks, I'll check it out.

Yeah, weirdly, she doesn't do the leash-biting on walks.

[Ms.DaisyDuke]

Have you ever tried a metal leash? I know this would be a last resort, but I'd get a one of those chain link type leashes and use that. She won't like it. You can get fairly thin ones so you wouldn't have to worry about her accidentally getting smoked in the face with it.

 

Also, when you go to leash her up and she starts horsing around, go sit down on the couch and watch t.v. or something. Keep doing it until she catches on. She's a fast learner right, so it shouldn't take her long to figure it out. I would start expecting only calm behaviours out of her from now on. I know she's a handful, but she'll figure out that crazy antics aren't going to get her anywhere!

[pansmom]

Also, when you go to leash her up and she starts horsing around, go sit down on the couch and watch t.v. or something. Keep doing it until she catches on. She's a fast learner right, so it shouldn't take her long to figure it out. I would start expecting only calm behaviours out of her from now on. I know she's a handful, but she'll figure out that crazy antics aren't going to get her anywhere!

 

We don't have TV (only watch things via recording), so I can't just turn something on, but I know that if I go to the computer and start playing online scrabble she'll get exactly the message you're talking about. Good call.

 

Anybody else support the metal leash idea? Hadn't thought of that. Another thing I tried but which isn't mentioned above (I forgot) is smearing the leash with chili peppers, chili paste, you name it, Lysol... Also only works in the moment and is REALLY annoying to clean up...

[Riley-dog]

I was thinking metal leash or if you have a choke collar laying around flatten it out and clip the leash to it and clip the other end to her collar so at least the part she can reach to grab is metal.

[Ms.DaisyDuke]

We don't have TV (only watch things via recording), so I can't just turn something on, but I know that if I go to the computer and start playing online scrabble she'll get exactly the message you're talking about. Good call.

 

Yes, do that then. I am pretty sure she'll get the hint.

[mbc1963]

I know that if I go to the computer and start playing online scrabble she'll get exactly the message you're talking about.

 

Oh, yeah. Mine is Snood. I had to turn off the sound, because if Buddy heard me playing, he'd get all whiny, like, "Not THAT life-sucking game again!"

 

Mary

[Ooky]

I am NO help to you on this one! Odin grabs the leash a lot. But I am a bad dog owner and *still* think it's cute. I have decided that I do not think pulling is cute at all, and so Odin is allowed to hold the leash in his mouth if he doesn't pull and if he doesn't chew. He also has to drop when and if I say, and that is often reinforced with a "leave-it" if he tries to grab it again too soon. This bizarre set of rules has also led to some interesting developments:

 

-as a "pace dog", Odin will reach around, grab the leash, and run looking back at you with intensity to encourage you to step it up. I say you in the general sense, as he runs with me and two other coworkers periodically; we all have different paces and he adjusts nicely to each of us but ALWAYS encourages us to push it

 

-when he's allowed to hold the leash in his mouth, he actually *pulls less* and stays in a heel better

 

-if I drop the leash accidently, he tries to give it back to me actually picking it up by the handle and giving it to my hand, rather than wandering off. I didn't train that, or didn't mean to!

 

-If he is dragging his leash, but is some distance away from me, one trick that never fails to impress everyone is me saying "Bring me your leash!" He picks up the handle, and runs it over to me! My landlord said he looked like he was over the agreed-upon weight limit (he's not, but he's on the upper end). I showed him that trick, and my landlord said "I don't care if that dog weighs 500 pounds! He's a keeper!"

 

But we don't bike together - I would think that springer thing would be way safer than a leash anyway and would probably stop the problem you describe.

[pansmom]

Oh, yeah. Mine is Snood. I had to turn off the sound, because if Buddy heard me playing, he'd get all whiny, like, "Not THAT life-sucking game again!"

 

Mary

 

If Pan hears the telltale *DING* of a lexulous game starting, she will do this big monster-SIGH and leave the room. It's hilarious.

[pansmom]

I am NO help to you on this one! Odin grabs the leash a lot. But I am a bad dog owner and *still* think it's cute. I have decided that I do not think pulling is cute at all, and so Odin is allowed to hold the leash in his mouth if he doesn't pull and if he doesn't chew. He also has to drop when and if I say, and that is often reinforced with a "leave-it" if he tries to grab it again too soon. This bizarre set of rules has also led to some interesting developments:

 

-as a "pace dog", Odin will reach around, grab the leash, and run looking back at you with intensity to encourage you to step it up. I say you in the general sense, as he runs with me and two other coworkers periodically; we all have different paces and he adjusts nicely to each of us but ALWAYS encourages us to push it

 

-when he's allowed to hold the leash in his mouth, he actually *pulls less* and stays in a heel better

 

-if I drop the leash accidently, he tries to give it back to me actually picking it up by the handle and giving it to my hand, rather than wandering off. I didn't train that, or didn't mean to!

 

-If he is dragging his leash, but is some distance away from me, one trick that never fails to impress everyone is me saying "Bring me your leash!" He picks up the handle, and runs it over to me! My landlord said he looked like he was over the agreed-upon weight limit (he's not, but he's on the upper end). I showed him that trick, and my landlord said "I don't care if that dog weighs 500 pounds! He's a keeper!"

 

But we don't bike together - I would think that springer thing would be way safer than a leash anyway and would probably stop the problem you describe.

 

I THINK ODIN THINKS HE'S WALKING YOU!

But maybe that's okay... It is, after all, hilarious.

Pan, also, heels perfectly when she is walking herself.

I'm going to ask Dr. Haug before I buy the springer thing or the metal chain...

Thanks for the emotional support--Pan is not alone!

She doesn't bite it really either, unless I start telling her no and she's feeling fiesty.

She is just calmly holding it in her mouth mostly like she doesn't want it in the way.

[JohnLloydJones]

Another thing I tried but which isn't mentioned above (I forgot) is smearing the leash with chili peppers, chili paste, you name it...

 

I once tried an evil mixture of ground red chilli (extra hot) and oil. I was amazed to find out that Senneca has a mouth lined with asbestos; she didn't even show any signs of feeling the heat. Fortunatley, she only bit her leash when teathered and a wire tie-in was the answer. She is far too busy to chew the leash when we are out.

[pansmom]

I once tried an evil mixture of ground red chilli (extra hot) and oil. I was amazed to find out that Senneca has a mouth lined with asbestos; she didn't even show any signs of feeling the heat. Fortunatley, she only bit her leash when teathered and a wire tie-in was the answer. She is far too busy to chew the leash when we are out.

 

Do you mean to imply Pan could be bored? Just curious. She is running really fast on the bike usually - at least in the morning - at night she gets a slower more leisurely walk, and she can smell and inspect as long as she's not pulling. But usually she loves running. It's just sometimes she gets anxious or bored or... honestly I don't know what causes it. Although sometimes I know it is about nerves or aggression because she will grab the leash as we go past a loose dog for example. What is your dog busy doing?

[SoloRiver]

If it's nerves or aggression and she's displacing her anxiety by biting the leash instead of directing toward the other dog I say take that and feel proud that she has come up with her own way of controlling her behavior.

 

It's certainly possible she's bored. Running is good exercise but it's not so mentally stimulating. Solo loves to play ball, but gets bored with it unless I start inventing tasks for him to complete before he gets rewarded by the ball. If I make him run around trees and lie down and weave through my legs and that kind of thing before throwing the ball he stays interested way, way longer and is much more excited about going after the ball than if I just throw it over and over. But he's a complicated piece of machinery; my other two will just chase the ball over and over until they drop. Solo enjoys jogging more than the other two do (which is why it's sad that he's the only one with arthritis) -- he sort of puts on his "jogging face" and could go along at a steady trot for hours (if his body would let him) -- but I don't know that he finds it particularly interesting.

[JohnLloydJones]

I know it is about nerves or aggression because she will grab the leash as we go past a loose dog for example. What is your dog busy doing?

 

It may be that she is frustrated by the leash and bites it to wish it away. When we are walking, Senneca is busy sniffing and inspecting her "territory". Once or twice I did see her grab the leash out of frustration when she didn't want to follow. I haven't seen that beaviour for a long time, though.

[pansmom]

If it's nerves or aggression and she's displacing her anxiety by biting the leash instead of directing toward the other dog I say take that and feel proud that she has come up with her own way of controlling her behavior.

 

It's certainly possible she's bored. Running is good exercise but it's not so mentally stimulating. Solo loves to play ball, but gets bored with it unless I start inventing tasks for him to complete before he gets rewarded by the ball. If I make him run around trees and lie down and weave through my legs and that kind of thing before throwing the ball he stays interested way, way longer and is much more excited about going after the ball than if I just throw it over and over. But he's a complicated piece of machinery; my other two will just chase the ball over and over until they drop. Solo enjoys jogging more than the other two do (which is why it's sad that he's the only one with arthritis) -- he sort of puts on his "jogging face" and could go along at a steady trot for hours (if his body would let him) -- but I don't know that he finds it particularly interesting.

 

Pan sounds like Solo. She invents circuitous paths around the backyard for herself, on the way back to return the frisbee, which involve leaping over puddles and weaving around trees. She also likes if I throw it somewhere hard for her to find like in a tree or bush and she has to figure out how to shake the limbs to get it down. Or she likes long drawn out games of hide and seek, in which it takes her five to ten minutes to find the toy, say, hidden in the low crook of a tree. Or extra long bike rides that involve exploring new places. I wish she wasn't so spooky; she's still scared of the Buster cube! It's hard to find new tasks for her when she is always spooking.

 

I ignored the leash biting tonight (we did two bike rides instead of a bike ride and a walk because I wanted to bike some more this evening instead) and she just does it for a bit and then quits. She isn't antagonistic about it. I think maybe she just enjoyed the attention, and was doing it, one, to try to get me to slow down so she could inspect her territory and two, to make the running more interesting with a nice fun battle of wits.

[bcnewe2]

I know it doesn't sound quite the same but, I used to go rollerblading with 3-4 dogs at a time. I started out with Jazz and worked my way up to the group. I'm pretty good at staying upright (or should say I used to be) so we got it all figured out. Believe it or not I used flexi leads so that if I fell or they pulled suddenly it didn't knock me over immediately. They also allowed the dogs to run in the grass while I stayed on the pavement.

Jazz was the first I learned to rollerblade with, she would take the flexi in her mouth and sorta pull me a tiny bit. If you asked my son who was rollerblading with no dog she pulled allot.

I always felt it was her way of not tugging on her own neck. If we got tangled she or I just let go.

It really did work for us so I never changed it.

 

With the idea of what Melanie mentioned.

Mean ol Mick snarked one of the new puppies the other night. He scared her pretty bad. She did not have a mark on her, no blood and hardly any spittle. She might of had an ear bruise but I can't really tell. She puppy screamed for what felt like 10 minutes (probably only a minute or so in reality) I stood there, checked her for injury, patted her reassuringly for a sec. and waited for her to calm down. During that time, Mick ran past her and brushed against her almost like telling her she was fine in his own harsh ways. We then finished our walk even though I wanted to quit, because it was quite upsetting.

 

So now when we go walking I see Mick grab up a stick when the puppies are coming at him. They know better than to run into him but I swear he's picking up the stick to keep himself from snarking them if they come in to close. I've even seen him glance over my way as if he wants me to notice he's keeping himself from snarking.

 

There are other times he just likes to run around with a stick, but this is different. He's holding his nasty self in check.

Do you think Pan might be doing something similar? If it helps her get though a nervous spot, then I say keep a soft leash so she keeps doing it.

[pansmom]

Poor lil' pup!

 

I loved the rollerblading and honestly I could get back to it now because Pan walks okay onleash now even when excited (due to her habitual compliance with verbal directional commands) but my good rollerskates broke and I only have crappy ones now that make me fall A LOT on the asphalt so I can't get back to it until I can afford $200 worth of new skates...

 

Do you think Pan might be doing something similar? If it helps her get though a nervous spot, then I say keep a soft leash so she keeps doing it.

 

Lately she sometimes goes and gets her bone or rope or foxy and worries it when I tell her to "leave it" with a cat, so it's possible. I'm going to let her do it for now (the leash biting) and ask Dr. Haug on Monday what she thinks.

 

Maybe I should tell her to go get bone when she gets all barky or rope or foxy or something. Try to encourage the healthy redirection if that's what it is. I might start doing that with the cats... A "leave it"--> "leave the room" --> "go get foxy"... sequence sounds smart to me...

[bcnewe2]

but my good rollerskates broke and I only have crappy ones now that make me fall A LOT on the asphalt so I can't get back to it until I can afford $200 worth of new skates...

 

I just need some asphalt. Haven't had any of that since moving out to the country over 10 years ago. But I did love it.

I can't wait till you go to dr. Haug. It's like having to put down a really good book cause it's to late to stay up and finish it.

Did you get to video any interactions with Pan, DH and you? Are you writing things down so you remember?

 

Good luck and I'm waiting for the next chapter!

[SoloRiver]

Solo's not spooky, actually. All of his issues have to do with social situations, except for the noise phobia. Things and places don't freak him out -- it is very, very rare that he is weirded out by an inanimate object. He can also be weirdly nonchalant about some social situations that you would think would bother him, like the neighbor's Golden Retrievers who like to hurl insults at my dogs through the fence. I thought for sure he'd be a fence fighter, but he could care less, even if they are snarling just on the other side of the fence and are therefore literally a foot away from him. (Jett used to make appeasement gestures at the fence, which is solid, trying to make friends with the monster Goldens through the fence. She seems to have finally figured out that the Goldens can't see her, either that or she doesn't care anymore.)

 

On the other hand, we have a plasma TV and Solo occasionally looks up and barks at the person on the screen, who he apparently thinks is real. He seems to find Stephen Colbert particularly threatening. I keep telling him that Stephen Colbert isn't a real Republican, but Solo still thinks the guy's a threat. Go figure. I guess Solo likes to keep me on my toes.

 

I used to take the dogs skating on SOOOOOOPER shitty skates: white Roller Derby skates with hot pink wheels that I bought at Toys R Us in a fit of nostalgia People would shout, "Classic wheels!" when we went by, or, I should say, as they sped by me on their $200 rollerblades. I have since upgraded to some $50 rollerblades I found on clearance at Joe's.

[pansmom]

I just need some asphalt. Haven't had any of that since moving out to the country over 10 years ago. But I did love it.

I can't wait till you go to dr. Haug. It's like having to put down a really good book cause it's to late to stay up and finish it.

Did you get to video any interactions with Pan, DH and you? Are you writing things down so you remember?

 

Good luck and I'm waiting for the next chapter!

 

It's finals week and DH is very busy writing many many papers. We will try to get some reliable stuff on camera this weekend, but the worst of her aggression is reactionary to things we can't control and thus not going to be something we can video. I got a few videos already. The good news is that she's not responding differently to me and DH anymore - she's actually still listening to me even when she's having an episode.

 

I am writing things down. The behavioral forms were very long and I have sent Dr. Haug addendums as new things developed.

[pansmom]

Solo's not spooky, actually.

 

Oh I just meant they both sound super smart and seem to need extra mental stimulation.

 

On the other hand, we have a plasma TV and Solo occasionally looks up and barks at the person on the screen, who he apparently thinks is real. He seems to find Stephen Colbert particularly threatening. I keep telling him that Stephen Colbert isn't a real Republican, but Solo still thinks the guy's a threat.

 

Hey, it took me two episodes to figure that out myself. I was so horrified the first episode I saw by what he was saying I didn't get the punchline! I don't blame Solo for falling for it.

[Krambambuli]

Hi Mary -- I've been following your original aggression thread and all the progress you've made so far with great interest. Kudos for hanging in there. It can be discouraging to have a "difficult" dog. I had to learn quite a lot very fast, too, and am still learning, almost 1 year 10 months into dog ownership.

 

My dog Sky is not agressive, with small exceptions (certain dogs set her off and lawn movers e.g.), but extremely anxious and fearful. She was already a year old when I found her at a shelter, so no background info is available, which makes it even harder to figure out a dog. Some of the things you've mentioned seem familiar sometimes, and the leash grabbing is one. Sky only does this when she gets one of her zoomie attacks while on leash. Sometimes they seem to be out of pure joy and sometimes they seem to be a release mechanism, like she had to get something off her chest. I refer to this behavior as the pressure cooker effect: The pressure builds up to a point when it has nowhere to go and she has to let off steam. This might not happen so much or at all in a "normal happy" dog, but it's the best description I can come up with.

 

Anywho, when we first had her and she had one of those zoomie moments, she would sail through the air at you after a running like crazy in circles (all 22.5 lbs of her) and grab your arms or hands or clothing. It seemed like she absolutely HAD to grab something. She never bit down, but I had a lot of little bruises. I started taking some hard toy with me, that she could grab, but then she invented the leash grab. As long as she can grab that and tear around, she doesn't get me by mistake, and I decided to just let her do it. It evolved into a game, and now that she is much more comfortable with us and her life, the zoomies don't happen that often anymore. She's also getting older and calmer in general. But she still loves the leash grab game. She does not do it on walks at all, by the way, never did.

 

Which brings me to a question. Mind you, I am no expert and have only limited experience. Is there a particular reason why you have to go running or biking with Pan? I mean for you, is that your fitness routine or do you do it just for your dog? Because I was wondering if all the running doesn't maybe overstimulate Pan in some way? I go on a walk with Sky every single day, I try to go for an hour or longer. Depending on how my knees feel, we walk between 2 and 4 miles. I use a Flexi leash, and where it's safe, I let her roam ahead or to the side and make sure that she gets lots of exploring in. She sniffs and marks and hops and sometimes starts digging and generally has a grand old time. I also do obedience work with her during the walk. I had noticed that it calms her down somewhat when she encounters something she finds frightening (and there was tons of that in the beginning). So she has an automatic sit whenever I stop, like at curbs. Sometimes I make her sit and wait while I walk ahead a bit or stare at the scenery. She's learned to go around obstacles without getting the leash tangled .... the possiblities are endless. But I do feel that the daily walks have really bonded us and given Sky the opportunity to learn about her environment. She is calm and happy the rest of the day. Of course there are more potty walks, and some play time plus she comes on almost all my errands in the car.

 

The difference between running and walking that I see and a few other people have pointed out, are how engaged you are with your dog, and how much she uses her brain for something simple as sniffing all over. Sky would probably love to run, too, I'm sure! But the walking seems to be very therapeutic. I do stop at the baseball fields at the high school often and let her run free, and she has a blast. But she is totally fine without that part. I vary the routes we take as much as possible, so it doesn't become boring for either of us, and she is exposed to more things.

 

Maybe you could do a longer walk and a shorter run just to see if it makes a difference. It might not work for you, I'm not saying it's a cure-all, but it would be an easy thing to try. Plus you can work on the pulling problem. Sky is a master puller, too. I've tried everything, from stopping dead in my tracks to going the other way to leash pops (when I didn't know better). Over time it has improved a lot, but sometimes she can get really, really excited, especially when we go walking in the country by the river, she just goes bonkers. She wears a harness, so I've sometimes hooked the leash on the front ring. Works like a charm, no pulling whatsoever. Since this harness is not designed to be used that way, I only do it when I fear my arms are coming out of my sockets. And again, over time she has learned not to pull so much and even walks on a loose leash when I have the Flexi shortened. I also tell her an long drawn out "eeeeaaaaasy" in a the lowest, calmest, most reassuring voice I can muster. (Got that advice about the deep, low voice, from this board, very helpful!!!) Patience and lots of practice, practice, practice!

 

Good luck and I'm looking forward to hearing about the vet visit!!!

[Fiacha7j]

On the other hand, we have a plasma TV and Solo occasionally looks up and barks at the person on the screen, who he apparently thinks is real. He seems to find Stephen Colbert particularly threatening. I keep telling him that Stephen Colbert isn't a real Republican, but Solo still thinks the guy's a threat.

:D

Ah, but how does he feel about Jon Stewart?

[bcnewe2]

I used to take the dogs skating on SOOOOOOPER shitty skates: white Roller Derby skates with hot pink wheels that I bought at Toys R Us in a fit of nostalgia

 

OMdog

I had those! I also remember getting barbie skates when I was really young. Same pink wheels but barbies head on the side of the skates.

 

I think my rollerblades were about middle price but once I got into skating I upgraded my wheels.

I LOVE rollerblading with all the dogs. It was magical for all of us. They all knew to sit on the side of the path while other people passed.

 

It felt like the only time I got to be a real dog with the pack cause I could keep up with all of them. Plus it was one heck of a weight loss plan. Which I could use again. Although Junk yard clean up is helping and I hike with the dogs at least 2x's per day so the LGD puppies get used to the prop. boundries. Not like it's going to stop them from wandering but hopefully they'll know what is there area to guard.