Sensitive Border Collie

[MicheleS.]

I'm a new member. What a wonderful resource with so many knowledgeable, helpful and experienced border collie owners!

 

I welcome any thoughts, information and suggestions. I have a 15 month old border collie (Chase). He's extremely shy and sensitive which I am figuring out seems can be an issue with the breed. I purchased him reluctantly when he was 5 months old. Chase lived his entire life up until then in a barn/kennel situation with a mother and daugther caring for him and the other dogs.

He has come a long way for the good with his sensitivity and shyness. Just wondering if I'm on the right track or if there are other ideas and suggestions that might help.

Chase is very shy when meeting new people and seems to be intimidated when people he doesn't know look at him or cause a fuss over him or when new people come into my home. He wants to bark and flee and hide. I have been managing him using the leash and not letting him run away and only taking the leash off until I get calm from him. I also don't let anyone force themselves on him. I have taught him the hand touch and with some people, he will go and touch their hand and I give praise for being brave. He also will take cookies from some people when he is feeling brave and of course he gets praise from me.

He can comfortably participate in obedience and agility class and makes friends with all the people and dogs in our class. He seems to never forget a person he has met. I have been taking him to various different places for socialization and to experience different situations and people. I've also tried to do some herding with him. Tried being the key word. To me, he does show interest in the sheep, likes to go and scatter, circle the sheep close and then he's off eating sheep poop or rolling in it. When he is wrong in obedience or agility, I never correct in a harsh manner, we just try again. He doesn't seem to want to be wrong but if he has any inkling he is wrong, he starts to shut down. I never make a big deal about it but we just sit on the sidelines until I think he is recovered. I have used a clicker with him more than any of my other dogs.

I am used to very pushy, forward type of dogs. (I have experience with german shepherds and aussies.)

Sorry for the long post. Just wondering if I'm on the right track with him and very interested in hearing experiences and suggestions from others. Love that dog and he has already taught me so much!

Thanks!

[Brad]

He's extremely shy and sensitive which I am figuring out seems can be an issue with the breed.

 

 

While my guy was a bit like this when he was younger, he's grown into a very confident dog at the age of 14 months. He just can't meet enough new people, and will try anything I ask of him. When he was younger, he'd pee when meeting new people, even though you could see he wanted to say hi. After a few moments when he realized the person wasn't going to eat him, he was fine. I also tried him on sheep at 8 months old. No interest, just ate poop and rolled in it. He actually ran away from the sheep, even though I was herding and running after them in the round pen. He wanted nothing to do with it. At that time I put him in agility, which he's doing really well at, and I've seen his confidence growing each week.

I took him out to the farm again a few days ago, and I tell ya, he's one crazy sheep dog now! He did fantastic!

So, I think continuing what you're doing, especially clicker work and agility, with lots of praise, and he may yet get that confidence he's lacking. Mine is now an "in your face" boisterous dog, no shyness at all.

[desertranger]

Don't worry about the long post you should read some of mine.

 

As a rule BC's aren't shy about anything. Chase may have been brought up in an environment that was somewhat intimidating to him. I would suggest more socialization for a start. Try to find out where his shyness and sensitivity come from. You seem to be on the right track so no worries there. Lots of love and anything that will build his confidence. You have the right attitude never harsh always positive will get you everywhere.

 

Q: Is this your first BC? If so I would like to strongly suggest you spend the rest of your life reading this forum. You have a lot of catching up to do.

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

Compared to Aussies and GSDs, yes, Border Collies are not exactly the Walmart greeter type. But their (healthy) personalities range from highly reserved to quite outgoing and people-oriented. I

 

n fact, I find Border Collies more ready to spread their love and loyalty around than the two breeds you named, far beyond the initial hail-fellow-well-met. Much to the chagrin of the owner who hands their dog over to a trainer and watches that person become the Herding/Agility/Rally/Diety to their "heart dog."

 

Try being a bit more nonchalant with him. Instead of putting so much attention on what people do when they come to him, give him a job to do as they approach him. He should sit and stay in place, or down and stay in place, whichever makes him more comfortable. If he starts reacting, remove him, don't talk to the person coming.

 

I know people here would disagree with me, but this is a dog I'd teach to accept a correction. Not beating over the head, but being able to know that saying "no" is a way of communicating, not the world coming to an end. Life itself is giving him corrections and he needs to learn from you tools of dealing with that pressure. The easiest way is to set up his life in a very structured way and then enforce it with gentle correction.

 

Until he gains some confidence, I would stop forcing the issue with interacting with people at classes and such. I'd just go do the training as if it were only about me and this dog, and back out again.

 

Overall, you want him to think you are the coolest thing going and be able to trust you to tell him when to worry and when not to. He doesn't really feel that right now. He's not sure YOU know what he's supposed to do. Try to keep things really simple and consistent in his life for a while.

 

My Ben (avatar) was rescued from exactly the sort of situation you describe. For six months it was like living with a barely tamed deer - a wrong move or a word spoken wrongly and he'd be under a chair. Then when he got to be about a year old, he started "discovering" his real personality and he turned into the kind of dog I had to be careful, or he'd embarrass me by knocking over old ladies in his excitement at meeting them (actually happened once ). I hope someday you'll be telling similar tales about your dog!

[Bordercentrics]

Chase's behavior is most likely the result of spending his first 5 months in a pen with other dogs. He knew absolutely nothing of the world as he hadn't been properly socialized. What you are seeing is probably totally normal for a Border Collie whose life has been so limited. Now everyday things are all new and scary to him. You are on the right track. Be patient and consistent with him. I beleive that Border Collies are a whole different ball game from most other dogs. They are indeed sensitive, but that doesn't have to mean timid or scared with the right training. Good work, and keep us posted on Chase's progress.

 

Kathy Robbins

[bc4pack]

Here ya go...

 

http://www.fearfuldog.com

[MicheleS.]

Wow! Thanks to all of you for your responses and awesome info. Yes, this is my first BC and I do find this breed to be very different from the other breeds I have owned. A world unto themselves actually. You bet I will be reading these boards for the rest of my life. So much information available here. I am trying hard to be less worried myself and more nonchalant about his shyness. I will do alot more diverting when I notice him starting to shut down. I totally agree with helping him be able to take a correction... wanted to gain more of his trust before I started but I have started with the word "no" and more times than not Chase is able to take that without falling apart or acting like it's the end of the world. I have been afraid that letting him be on the side lines when he starts to shut down would give him the message that he can decide when we train and when we don't. Besides being shy, he amazingly has a very pushy side to him. I am trying to pay more attention to what is causing him to shut down.

This little guy has come a long way and it has been rewarding so far to see his progress. I will keep up the training, especially the agility because I do think that is helping his confidence. We may lay off the sheep if we don't see progress in the next couple of lessons. But I hope someday I can experience more of that with him. I do have a really, really good herding instructor. Was lucky to find her.

Chase is a wonderful dog, he makes me laugh and he's such a good snuggler. Very much the *Walmart greeter* type. I know it's in him and I see it with people he knows and trusts. I love that about him. He's certainly going to make me a better trainer and I'm already thanking him for that.

I hope someday to say that he is a totally and completely in your face sort of dog all the time! Thanks for all of your advice. So very much appreciated. I will keep you posted on his progress. You won't get rid of me now!

Michele &

Chase (the funny border collie boyfriend)

Gypsy, UD NA NAJ (the pushy aussie)

Hughie, CDX (the laid-back GSD)

[herdcentral]

Chase sounds just like my girl also my first BC. I got her at 5 months old from her breeder where she had been well cared for physically but otherwise left to her own devices on a small farm with not much interaction in the outside world.

 

She is delightfully friendly with everyone she knows but finds meeting new people in strange surroundings overwhelming and will cower or flee. This is more likely if people come towards her in groups and try and reach for her, or suddenly appear. She would also shut down at the merest hint that she had done something wrong at training.

 

She is now 26 mo old and starting to become more resilient. I have tried to make everything fun and at training praise her for everything that she does. I dont give any indication if she mucks up at agility but break things down into small bits that she always gets right. Gradually her confidence has grown and her bond with me has strengthened. She is dog that really wants to please so for her any reprimand is devastating and sets her back, the look on her face is of complete devastation. She is starting to become a lot more sassy but we still have a way to go.

 

I am used to ACDS who are much pushier and in your face and not concerned about unfamiliar people in unfamiliar surroundings. They are only interested in me and view everyone else as peripheal and with a mild disdain whereas my BC is an enthusiastic greeter of people she meets in familiar surroundings.

 

It has been very much a steep learning curve, to try and become in tune with this mysterious black and white dog.

 

I also find even though she is the middle dog of 3, my baby ACD (15mo) and older ACD (8yo)seem to be in very in tune with each other and have formed a tight ACD style bond while my BC sort of runs around on the edges. I often wonder how she might have been in a BC savvy home.

[MicheleS.]

herdcentral -

how you describe your girl is Chase exactly!!

Everything you describe is exactly what I have and am experiencing. I am not alone! ha

Agility is where I am having some difficulty right now and you and others have pointed me in the right direction with breaking things down to make it easier for Chase to understand what I'm asking.

I too am used to other breeds that have been completely focused on me with everything else being background noise. Chase seems to be aware of everything and anything in his surroundings although he definitely wants to please.

Thanks so much for your insight and information.

Michele

[PSmitty]

Welcome to the board! Chase sounds a little shy and insecure to me, but as others said, probably a result of his early "puppyhood". I have a shy dog, too. I don't force many interactions with strangers on him, though he had become more confident and comfortable with time. Becca gives good advice, but I also think you're already on the right track with him. Keep up the good work!

 

Oh, and the sheep thing? Give him time. He's still young and with his lack of confidence and mental immaturity, he may be slow to turn on the the stock, too.

 

Finally, I have to kind of disagree with Desertranger's statement that "As a rule BC's aren't shy about anything". As I said, I've got a shy Border Collie and I know several others. The statement's just a little too broad.

 

Good luck with Chase!

[herdcentral]

Agility is where I am having some difficulty right now and you and others have pointed me in the right direction with breaking things down to make it easier for Chase to understand what I'm asking.

I too am used to other breeds that have been completely focused on me with everything else being background noise. Chase seems to be aware of everything and anything in his surroundings although he definitely wants to please.

 

Yes agility has been a bit of a struggle for me too. I was not used to the extreme sensitivity. My agility ACD is an exhibitionist and loves strutting her stuff in the ring. For her it is just her and me working together and she doesnt notice anything else she is so focussed.

 

My BC is quite different and gets worried by external factors, it is very hard for her to cut loose and go for it. Any hesitation or confusion from me and she is liable to check out and give up and look away from me. She is blazing fast at training these days ( when I first started she used to lie down at the mere sight of a jump) but she is still inclined to gear down at trials where she is very aware of her surroundings and other dogs, people and noises.

 

However we are slowly getting there. She did some nice runs on the weekend with a first place and 3 seconds in novice, gaining her first title. She ran smoothly and clear and her speed is starting to increase with her confidence. I think the hard work is starting to pay off but we still have a lot to do. I do lots of simple speed circles with lots of play, I dont do too much drilling, just short and fun. I also encourage her to focus on me and she is starting to make a lot more eye contact with me these days. She loves her ball so I make use of this at training.

 

It has been a lot of hard work getting to this point but I love the feeling of starting to connect with her. She is such a loving intelligent creature.

[Jedismom]

I too am used to other breeds that have been completely focused on me with everything else being background noise. Chase seems to be aware of everything and anything in his surroundings although he definitely wants to please.

 

Let me just share with you my own little personal "being aware" tale of the other night. Well since Cadi was so brilliant in CGC class (Canine Good Citizen), I thought I'd have Jedi go through it next. You know......my "isn't that one of those really smart dogs?" BC. Yes he knows all his commands already but it's not that, that gets in his way. It's his worrier, over-thinking nature. So after going through all of his antics of wanting to run to anyone who said come, even when it wasn't me...he heard a dog bark behind a closed door in the other room....Well of course my little bug a boo HAD to worry about it. No other dog seemed to notice because they were all very dutifully looking at their owners. So my little Einstein puts 2 and 2 together, and decides that the noise must be coming from the instructor's helper (who is also a tester) sitting by herself on the side of the room where the noise was coming from. He then proceeds to growl at her. So my instructor (a fellow BC owner) says, let's just take him over there and so he can see that nothing bad is going on on that side of the room. So then he realized the woman he had just growled at was not a monster, and gave her some licks. He got to investigate and smell the door the noise was coming from and that seemed to do the trick.

 

So with Jedi, I just know that I need to be aware that what sometimes seems simple, is not always the case with him. It is a journey of learned patience for me. I can't rush him, and he needs to see the purpose. It's feels good to get on these boards sometimes and know I'm not the only one.

 

Georgia

[MicheleS.]

You guys are all great! Reading the replies and information definitely encourages me and gives me a boost of confidence. It so helps to know I'm not the only one.

Tonite Chase had a very nice agility class. I tried the suggestions here and I never let him get into a full blown shut down mode and when he did start, we diverted and did some tricks. It seemed much easier for me to keep him with me (mentally) tonite. He does however like to go into the tunnels and lay down!!! That is part of him shutting down. I was able to coax him out faster, acted like it was no big deal and we went on with our class. He seems like he is just starting to realize it's not a free-for all. ha! I wonder if part of him shutting down is him starting to realize that he just can't do what he wants when he wants and that he has a partner who does the directing?!

Admittedly, there is a naughty shepherd in our class that makes me nervous. BTW, I'm not prejudiced against the GSD's, I have owned 2 in my life and still have one. (love them) So I know the breed well. But the fact of the matter is, this dog has lunged and barked and even bared his teeth once at Chase. I don't think it likes my dog. I have heard some say that BC's seems to illicit this type of response from some GSD's. I know the owner is inexperienced. In any case, the dog has been out of control for a long time and it has made me nervous and feel like I have to have eyes on the back of my head fearing that if the dog gets away from its owner, it will make a bee-line to Chase. It has. I have made a deal about the dog and now he is more controlled. But I definitely think Chase has felt my nervous vibes and that may be a partial contributing factor to his shut downs. I am trying really, really hard to overcome my nervous vibes and think I'm getting better since the GSD is under more control. But I don't think Chase will ever forget or he will have a hard time forgetting those feelings...? He really seems like he NEVER forgets a person he has met.

 

Anyway, great reading all the advice and stories that I feel I could tell myself. Chase's class was much better tonite and more fun for both of us. When he is on his game mentally, he's numero uno in the class!! ha Then everyone gets shocked when he has his little episodes. aaaahhhh, the joy of it all.

[herdcentral]

I'm getting better since the GSD is under more control. But I don't think Chase will ever forget or he will have a hard time forgetting those feelings...? He really seems like he NEVER forgets a person he has met.

 

Now I also quite like GSDS but I had a loose one go for my ACD at training and it bit her, after that everytime she saw a GSD even in the far distance she would start to bark and go behind my legs. She has always got on well with other dogs but the mere sight of a GSD would cause her to tense up. She sees a lot of them at trials and she is fine now although she still looks at them, wheras she will ignore all other dogs when she is trialing. I do tend to avoid them though and I think she now has confidence in me that nothing bad will happen.

 

It has been great to see my young BC go from lying down at agility to start to enjoy and work as a team with me so keep working on it. I have taught her to do high fives and excited nose touches which seem to help. I tell her all the time how wonderful she is and it really seems to boost her confidence.

 

When I feed her we play the ready steady game. I put her bowl on the ground and set her up in a stand some distance away. I lead out like on the start line and say ready steady go and I race her to her bowl. She seems to enjoy this and barks like mad on the way to take up position and shoots off when I give the signal. She now rockets off the start line where before she was liable to lie down.

[MicheleS.]

The tough thing is that Chase lives with a GSD and he thinks they are all nice like 'his brother'. Absolutely LOVE the idea of the ready-steady game for meal times! I'll try that. Chase and I do our high 5's and 10's and nose touches and that does seem to help him. Your bc girl is adorable!

 

hey, I can't stay off these boards!!!

Thanks for the encouragement -

Michele & Chase

[Maralynn]

The tough thing is that Chase lives with a GSD and he thinks they are all nice like 'his brother'. Absolutely LOVE the idea of the ready-steady game for meal times! I'll try that. Chase and I do our high 5's and 10's and nose touches and that does seem to help him. Your bc girl is adorable!

 

hey, I can't stay off these boards!!!

Thanks for the encouragement -

Michele & Chase

 

 

These boards are addicting, much like the dogs It sounds like you're doing a good job with Chase

 

My older dog came to me as a scared, unsocialized 3 y/o. With slow and steady progess and lots of positive reinforcment, she really blossomed. I imagine a year from now you'll look back and be amazed at the progress you've made

[Kota]

We have a border collie/Pyrenees who was the runt of the litter and his litter mates did not allow him to nurse after about 2 weeks. We got him at 8 weeks and he seemed to adjust very well. We had him neutered at 5.5 months. Since then, he does not want to go into the farm or pet stores. He actually just tries to go back to the vehicle. Any advice on helping him through this trauma? It seems like he is relating these stores to the vet office. Thank you.