Um.

[pansmom]

This is kind of embarassing to admit, but um... it seems, at least over the past couple days, that if Pan growls at me in a "guarding" type situation and I have the presence of mind to say "no" and step toward her with a stern look, instead of responding instinctively by stepping back, she stops.

 

ETA: Also, I have a question, I've heard a lot of people mention problems with rawhides. I'm going to ask the BCVB of course, but what percentage of puppies do you think have trouble with rawhides (or other high quality treats, at least once)? Like, scary freaky growly brings-out-the-wild-animal-in-your-cute-little-puppy-bite-your-owner reactions? How many people here have and haven't had that issue? How do people here in general teach dogs that resource guarding is not ok? How many people use trading games, versus just telling their dogs to stop and time out if they don't? And how many people here subscribe to the thought that you should just make your dogs eat alone?

[MaggieDog]

It should be interesting to see if what you've noticed about Pan's growling will continue to hold true or if the novelty of your response will fade in time and the behavior will return. I'd be keeping an eye on what she does after she stops growling, though - if she's still super tense and her body language still appears "guardy" I'd be wary of what you're seeing as it may indicate that she's just supressing the growl (an important warning cue for you and others) vs. actually altering the whole behavior chain.

 

As to the resource guarding issue, IME some dogs will guard food and not chewies and vice versa. Some guard both. Each dog has their preferences for chewies - we use GoodLife meal bones for evaluating resource guarding at the humane society and I see much more interest in them than did when we were using rawhide. That being said, I've had good success using trading games with student dogs to prevent resource guarding; the book "Mine!" has a great protocol for rehabbing resource guarders using a trading scheme.

[pansmom]

It should be interesting to see if what you've noticed about Pan's growling will continue to hold true or if the novelty of your response will fade in time and the behavior will return.

 

Yeah, she has a tendency to respond really well at first to things, so we'll have to see if it lasts.

 

I'd be keeping an eye on what she does after she stops growling, though - if she's still super tense and her body language still appears "guardy" I'd be wary of what you're seeing as it may indicate that she's just supressing the growl (an important warning cue for you and others) vs. actually altering the whole behavior chain.

 

Good point, yes!!!, but it's not that. I watch her body language really closely now and was paying attention. I only tried this because it's what my husband does. In the other thread, people said if he can get her out of this mode on command, I should be able to as well. That I should try to mimic him. So, in order to figure out how to mimic his no-nonsense practical response, I asked him what he is thinking when he verbally corrects her. (Earlier this week he "rescued" me from her growling/nipping at fear-noises and guarding...) His answer: mild outrage, he is just thinking, "not okay, she WILL stop." I was like really. OK. So now when she growls at me I try to feel mildly outraged instead of the reactionary shock which comes naturally. This time I caught myself about to step backwards, shook my head, and stepped forward again, saying no. (Yeah, it's like behavior mod... for MYSELF!) But it worked. She immediately relaxed. Her mouth fell open slightly, and her ears perked. It was bizarre.

 

This was over something she was interested in, near the alarm clock. She was investigating something really intently and looking over at me, intermittently, whining just barely perceptibly as if she was excited, so I went over to see what she was looking at and doing so boxed her in between the walls and the bed. Then she growled (low intensity, hardly showing teeth at all). After I said no, when she stopped growling and relaxed, I moved and told her "out" and had her sit and wait while I investigated it myself. This is Louisiana, so you know, I wanted to see if a roach had gotten inside or something... But I still have no idea what it was she was looking at, unless it was the rubber band on the bedside table. It's a digital clock so I don't think it was ticking!

 

But I finally have her trained also to "leave the room" on command, too. I think, after a couple more days of this, she will start obeying "leave it" re: the cats (at least when they are stationary). She is definitely getting better at terminating that hyperfocus. During our walks I've been stopping to sit beside her near a busy street and clicking successful "leave its" (looking away and sitting still) when the cars go by.

[Ooky]

Glad it seems things are going better, in that you are seeing improvement in how you are handling her? (Sorry if I'm not reading that right, apparent good news belied by the hrrmm face on the post.) It will be good to see the behaviorist and have her see you and Pan in person, I think! It sounds like you are finding confidence, I'm sure that can only be a good thing at this point.

 

As far as your questions, Odin resource guards food from the cat (used to be cats until recently). I don't really blame him; Benway is very swarmy and pushy and sometimes *I* feel a little resource guardy around him. All other times the dog and cat are great friends, and very safe around each other - but I don't really trust Odin when he barks or growls at Benway in those situations with food. So I really just try to keep the cat and dog separated when I feed him. He always eats in his crate or in a closed room without the cat, with NILIF requests before feeding always. At one point he was getting worse and trying to punish the cat for swarming near my food. I handled that differently. Any attempts to guard *my* food from the cat were met with a pretty serious crackdown, which in my house means: getting physically between him and the cat, a sharp "hey!" and possibly growling voice, removal to a different room, or even scruff shake depending on severity of behavior. That has (knock on wood) stopped now - I seem to have gotten the point across that my food is my food and not to be worried about in any way, shape, or form by him. I really only have to manage when his food is out around Benway.

 

I've never tried trading games. Odin will let me take anything from him, always has. I can stick my fingers all around his mouth or whatever, even around a high value thing. Not that I do that a lot. But for instance, my coworker found a cow femur in a field at work and brought it back for him - all authentic and sundried and vulture-chewed. Predictably, he went nuts for the field stank and started actually eating it - like crunching the bone up and swallowing the pieces. We noticed some blood, so I reached down, took the bone out of his mouth, opened his mouth, and poked around till I found the minor scrape on his gums that was bleeding, and took the bone away. No protest whatsoever, and I would never have expected any. But that's not how my family's dog was - Calvin could give serious warning if you came too close to his treats once they were in his possession. We just ... never tried to take his treats away. Lame, I know. Hope that helps in some way. I'm interested to see responses to this thread, too!

[pansmom]

Oh yeah I haven't mentioned this either but another thing that seems to be working is just telling her "Hush it's nothing" in a firm voice when she does that frenzied bark. Today she hasn't even done that kind of bark. It may be that it'll come back but after repeatedly being told, in so many words, all day yesterday when she did it that she was being silly, it hasn't even happened today... the shades on the front windows are probably helping also.

[mbc1963]

My dog is not good about rawhides or any other tasty toy that lasts indefinitely. In fact, I don't like to let him have them, period. He has never growled at me over them, but he might growl at another human who stepped into his space and tried to take one away. I think he did, early on, when my sister approached his bed. So, no rawhides for him.

 

As far as another dog - I have no doubt at all that Buddy would take them OUT if they got near him when he was eating a rawhide. He has a few trusted friends who can eat around him and share treats, but all those treaties are very tentative: if the value of the treat goes high enough, he will fight for it.

 

Mary

[juliepoudrier]

My dogs all eat together in the kitchen and know they aren't allowed to put their heads in anyone else's bowl until that dog walks away. I suppose Lark might be considered a guarder in that she often doesn't eat her food until everyone else is finished and will growl at anyone that tries to check out her bowl. I allow it because the others shouldn't be trying to get into her bowl anyway (note: I can remove any bowl from any dog at any time without problems).

 

I don't use rawhides--cow hooves are the chew treat of choice around here. I usually give each dog one and then they proceed to shift them around until they find the one they like best. When they get raw meaty bones out in the yard, they each take theirs off to where they want to eat it and no one tries to steal from anyone else (well, the chickens get pretty bold, but the dogs leave each other alone).

 

I respond to any signs of resource guarding in puppies (or adults) with a firm voice correction (which they all learn from day one here whether they are pups or adults), no trading games or time outs. If the dog persists, then the object of desire is simply removed.

 

J.

[RoseAmy]

Just what Julie said. My dogs all eat on the porch..No one is allowed near anothers bowl until that dog is done and walks away.

 

My dogs eat raw so they get plenty of chew stuff with their meals therefore no rawhides (there have been lots of cases of dogs choking on them) or other chewies.

 

The rule around here is whats mine is mine and whats yours is mine. Same idea as Julie's no games no time outs. A stern correction if behavior doesn't stop I just take what is mine.

[Root Beer]

Like, scary freaky growly brings-out-the-wild-animal-in-your-cute-little-puppy-bite-your-owner reactions? How many people here have and haven't had that issue?

 

Out of my four dogs, I have one that gets guardy with things. This is the first of our dogs, Sammie, and back when he first did it, we had no idea what it was and actually thought it was normal. I'm the type who gets "growly" if someone tries to take something that I value away from me, so it seemed normal that my dog had the same tendency.

 

We were extremely fortunate in that this only happened with extremely high value items. Pig ears, meaty bones, etc. He also got guardy if you left a whole bag of dog food sitting on the floor!

 

Thinking it was normal, we simply didn't leave the dog food bag on the floor and we didn't give him the high value items that he would guard. In his case, the tendency to guard never carried over to lower value items. I have always been able, for instance, to take up his food bowl while he eats or take toys from him.

 

After I learned that resource guarding is actually a problem behavior, I taught him to trade. This has come in extremely handy. One time he killed a groundhog and wanted to bring it in the house. No way he was dropping that thing! I got some raw chicken and traded him for it. He got to come in to eat the chicken while I disposed of the dead critter.

 

My other three have never been guarders with people. They can all get a little guardy amongst themselves, but in my house the rule is that if one dog has something, the others have to respect that. If, for instance, one of the dogs is eating and another leans in toward that dog's bowl and the eating dog growls, that is considered fair communication. I will call the dog who is trying to horn in off the other. They all know this and they rarely interfere with one another when eating.

 

How do people here in general teach dogs that resource guarding is not ok? How many people use trading games, versus just telling their dogs to stop and time out if they don't?

 

I do use trading games. Now that I know a lot more than I did when we first adopted Sammie (of course, there is so much, much, much more to learn!! ), I teach all of my dogs to trade items and I teach a "Leave It" (directive) and a "Give It" very early on. I teach those things as I teach the dog to sit, sit/stay at the door, jump up and get off, etc. I do teach all of those concepts in the context of games with high rewards and then I apply them to real situations once the dog understands the concepts.

 

That fits my style very well and it works very well and the dogs learn quickly this way.

 

And how many people here subscribe to the thought that you should just make your dogs eat alone?

 

I don't generally make my dogs eat alone. I feed all four of them in the same room, but each has a good bit of space as they eat. They all have a specific place for their bowls, and none of them try to run in on anyone else's bowl. I also put the bowls down in age order - Sammie first, then Maddie, then Speedy, then Dean. That's just because it's an order and it works for me. Dean has to sit and wait while all of the bowls are put down, but the others are free to mill about.

 

That said, whenever I get a new dog, I will feed that dog alone if he or she needs some space, or does not know the rule to respect the other dogs as they eat. Dean ate in a separate room for the first month that we had him, and he had to do a training session to earn half of his meals! That did him more good than I can even describe. He started to eat with the others when it was clear to me that he was ready.

 

I guess in my case, I focus a lot more on dog-dog interactions at mealtime than human interactions. Even Sammie, who still has some guarding tendencies with very high value items, has never, ever tried to take anything from my husband or I - all of my dogs understand that if a person has something, it is theirs unless it is given to the dog.

 

If I had a dog who was guardy with us, I would do a lot a lot a lot of "learn to earn" type stuff.

 

I don't give rawhides, but when I do give the dogs something high value - bones for instance - they each get one and the rule is that no dog is allowed to horn in on another. But they have learned this with their meals, so they understand.

[Lenajo]

guarding items or space from *people* is what is typically meant when someone talks about "resource guarding".

 

Similar behaviors to the cat, other dogs, etc, need to be addressed as needed in the household but they are not in the same catagory. I would daresay they are pretty much normal animal communication that we moderate to fit our own environment. For example, like JulieP I sometimes feed all my dogs at once. Nobody is allowed to take anyone else's food, even it they finish first. It makes for a peaceful mealtime that way.

 

RG dogs are that way genetically. Time, and success, in the behavior feeds it, but it does not make exist. It *cannot* be completely stopped either for that matter - only managed. The dog is what it is - which is why you can spot it with the right tests in very immature puppies.

 

I've seen very few dangerous RG Border Collies. Doesn't mean they don't exist; just that perhaps by nature the breed is pretty complaint with people so you see it less commonly. Those I have dealt with were mostly minor (typically RG is scaled 1-10, with 10 being the worst) 5s or lower and pretty easy to manage and moderate. They guarded only very high value items that were easy to remove or control in the household. I have seen a few 10s in the BC as well as other breeds and mixes, and the decisions of the responsible parties (both owners and rescuers with fosters) for those dogs has been euthanisia. Those dogs could turn on the RG moves at the blink of an eye - guarding space, inedible items, even doorways to items on the shelves they had no access too. And woe be it to the human that stepped into the middle of that unaware. It sounds funny to hear about the owner pinned for 3 hours in the closet by a 30 lb dog with a plastic wrap from the trash.....not.

 

my concern with Pan is that your inexperienced eyes are mis reading the silence as compliance. What's her body language? Soft? Stiff? Eye contact? averted eyes? ear carriage? Does she move the food back to better stand over it? Does she turn her back and walk away?

[pansmom]

my concern with Pan is that your inexperienced eyes are mis reading the silence as compliance. What's her body language? Soft? Stiff? Eye contact? averted eyes? ear carriage? Does she move the food back to better stand over it? Does she turn her back and walk away?

 

With the food? Last time it happened (a few days ago) when he walked in and told her to stop, the second she got the firm verbal correction her ears went back and her tail and head went down and she sat where she was, as if trying to be good. And then he told her to move away from the food and she did. And then he walked over to it and stood between her and it and gave her some commands. And then after she complied she got to eat. I'll have to watch her body language again and report back when it happens again with the food.

 

But yesterday with the lower value item (whatever it was) that she had just gotten obsessed with, the instant I gave her the firm verbal correction her mouth opened and her ears perked and she was fine. Complete change of demeanor. From tense and guardy to regular old Pan in about a second. It was like she was relieved to be told to stop.

 

P.S. She always has to do a down stay before she eats... And I have to release her to eat her food. And we handfed her for four or five weeks back in February and March on the NILIF plan (had to do a trick or obey a command for each and every piece of kibble). It did make her WAYYY more obedient (which she remains to this day), but it didn't cure the resource guarding.

[JohnLloydJones]

And how many people here subscribe to the thought that you should just make your dogs eat alone?

 

Not me. My two eat side by side. The first couple of days after Rhys came, I sat in between, and kept peace. Now they eat happily, knowing that if they try any nonsense, I would wade in and separate them. They both allow me to take their bowl or even put my hand in the bowl while they are eating (which I do more often to add than take away). They may squabble between themselves over a rawhide chew, but both will give one up to me with no protest at all. That is how it needs to be.

 

...I have the presence of mind to say "no" and step toward her with a stern look...

 

In my book, you can do more with a firm and determined look than all the world's fancy behavioral methods. Your dog will read your body language and react accordingly. When you act like the boss, your dog will treat you like one.

[pansmom]

They may squabble between themselves over a rawhide chew, but both will give one up to me with no protest at all. That is how it needs to be.

 

Yeah, I mean resource guarders... do you feed them away from PEOPLE?... that's one question. And the second is should I move the cat out of the room before I feed Pan. It's interesting though that what people are probably saying is that it is probably fair communication for my dog to warn the cat away from her food while she eats. The cat does tend to swarm her a little. I've been noticing that. My EIGHT POUND cat is less worried about Pan than I am somehow.

 

Hello, my name is Nyxie and I am FEARLESS.

 

My other cat, Algebar ("Boogie"), who is eleven, will not go anywhere near her.

[JohnLloydJones]

... do you feed them away from PEOPLE?... that's one question.

 

No. They eat their food in the family area (between the kitchen and family room) and have to accept that there are people hanging around in the same area.

 

We don't have a cat, so I don't have experience on that, but I would say that if the cat is there normally, then Pan should accept it. A little growling to tell the cat to keep away is OK as long as it stays with that.

[Root Beer]

Yeah, I mean resource guarders... do you feed them away from PEOPLE?... that's one question.

 

I worked with a client once whose dog had resource guarding issues with people. She had gone to another trainer who had her using a method that was actually making the problem worse.

 

The first thing I had her do was to start to put the dog in a separate room, get the food ready, put it down, then send the dog into the room to eat, and leave the dog alone in peace to eat for about a week or so. This gave the dog a chance to relax.

 

From there, we did some work with empty food bowls and trading, etc. to work on the guarding situation itself. In the end, the problem was resolved to the dog owner's satisfaction.

 

Personally, I would have no problem feeding a dog in a room alone if it were better for the dog, but I would also work with the dog because there are times when that kind of isolation is really not possible.

 

And the second is should I move the cat out of the room before I feed Pan.

 

I would remove the cat. When I am working with a dog with any type of issues, I make things as simple as possible.

 

And even with a dog with a solid temperament, I would not allow a cat, another dog, or a child (or another adult, for that matter) to crowd a dog who is eating. I like for my dogs to have a chance to enjoy their food as they see fit.

[urge to herd]

Yeah, I mean resource guarders... do you feed them away from PEOPLE?... that's one question. And the second is should I move the cat out of the room before I feed Pan. It's interesting though that what people are probably saying is that it is probably fair communication for my dog to warn the cat away from her food while she eats. The cat does tend to swarm her a little. I've been noticing that. My EIGHT POUND cat is less worried about Pan than I am somehow.

 

It depends. If you're asking should you keep other people away from Pan when she's eating, right now the answer is absolutely yes. You and DH are working actively on this issue right now, so that's different. Pan's RG around other people may subside as she stabilizes, it may not. My squirrely girly Shoshone will let me or DH do absolutely anything to her or her food. I don't want to put undo stress on her quirky little brain, so she gets fed away from other people if we have anyone over.

 

The cat is a whole nother issue. Depends a lot on the cat. Our Duke had no fear and no brain. Shonie ignored him except when he'd go after her when she had food or a toy, which he did regularly. Then, she'd growl and snap at him. Until we put him to sleep a couple weeks ago, I'd look around really well before I started feeding dogs or giving treats, and I kept a sharp eye on Shonie's demeanor. If she started to stiffen up, I'd know Duke had appeared in her view.

 

We had to manage things to keep Duke safe from himself, basically. I'd keep the kitty out of the room, at least while you're working so hard to figure Pan out and get her less 'activated'.

 

Ruth

[Ooky]

I kind of have to disagree with treating the cats just like other dogs, or saying that if the cat is normally around then the dog needs to accept it. The major problems I see with this are

 

1) Other dogs should understand dog language better than a cat will, presumably. I don't know that Benway respects Odin's serious growl.

 

2) You can't control most cats the same way you can another dog. I can tell Benway to stop bugging Odin, but he wouldn't. In fact, he is the type of cat that if he knows you don't want him doing something, he'll do it more, and with more intensity! With the dog-dog scenario, you presumably have control over both animals with a firm look or whatever.

 

3) If Odin decided that Benway wasn't heeding his communication (which would be likely), he might decide to back that up. Benway's tough, but a lot smaller than Odin. Even if Odin didn't injure him badly and Benway didn't sneak a claw in the eye or something, I'd hate for an easily avoided altercation to mess with their very good relationship away from food.

 

I don't think Odin should have to accept Benway's rude behavior, as it's clearly stressful to him while he's eating. Benway is the one who's not respecting boundaries. But I also can't prevent Benway from being a total jerkface without physically restraining him the entire time Odin is eating. So I keep them separated when Odin's eating - much easier.

[Lenajo]

Cats are cats, but they can be trained to a degree. A swift aerial back of the neck deportation from the room makes a point with the most rude of kitties at feeding time.

 

If the dog doesn't care the cat is eating with him that's fine and I'll allow it. But if the dog says no, I'll deal with that cat myself before I let him have to take matters into his own teeth.

[JohnLloydJones]

And even with a dog with a solid temperament, I would not allow a cat, another dog, or a child (or another adult, for that matter) to crowd a dog who is eating. I like for my dogs to have a chance to enjoy their food as they see fit.

 

I like matro (Norwegian: (MAAT-row) lit. food peace) as much as anyone. I also like my dogs to be able to eat in peace together. I would protect them from visitors, but family is family and they need to put up with having them around -- but not crowding, of course; that's just rude and stressful.

[Ooky]

Cats are cats, but they can be trained to a degree. A swift aerial back of the neck deportation from the room makes a point with the most rude of kitties at feeding time.

Ahahhahhahahahahaha, please excuse me while I wipe away the tears! The point that such an action would make with Benway is "Wow, they really don't want me doing that. I MUST DO IT! NOW!"

 

I've read that cats cannot be trained through corrections, only rewards. Don't know if that's true, but with Benway the golden rule is that if you really don't want him doing something, be prepared to remove him from the situation entirely or else have a long, protracted fight.

 

I think we're saying the same thing though - remove the cat to be safe!

[Root Beer]

I like matro (Norwegian: (MAAT-row) lit. food peace) as much as anyone. I also like my dogs to be able to eat in peace together. I would protect them from visitors, but family is family and they need to put up with having them around -- but not crowding, of course; that's just rude and stressful.

 

Same here. I really like for my dogs to eat in peace together, and with me moving about doing my thing, etc.

 

Under normal circumstances, with dogs that I know well and trust, I am usually moving around them as they eat - putting food items away, emptying or loading the dishwasher, or getting my own breakfast - and they barely notice.

 

I know them, they know me, there's mutual trust on the part of all of us, and it's all good.

 

Edited: I edited this post. I just didn't like it the way I had it.

[pansmom]

Ahahhahhahahahahaha, please excuse me while I wipe away the tears! The point that such an action would make with Benway is "Wow, they really don't want me doing that. I MUST DO IT! NOW!"

 

I've read that cats cannot be trained through corrections, only rewards. Don't know if that's true, but with Benway the golden rule is that if you really don't want him doing something, be prepared to remove him from the situation entirely or else have a long, protracted fight.

 

I think we're saying the same thing though - remove the cat to be safe!

 

I second this, you can only train a cat through rewards. I've never been able to teach them anything except "ok I must stop doing this RIGHT NOW" with punishment (usually spraybottle of H2O and this only for the DANGEROUS Benway-esque cat I loved loved loved who died of cancer right after we got Pan). But I have with great success taught cats behavior through rewards.

 

I removed the cat this morning before giving Pan her late breakfast and she seemed to have a great calm dinner with me but not Nyx in the room.

[SoloRiver]

Guarding is normal behavior. Dogs are hard-wired to guard. It is a testament to the powers of natural and artificial selection that a lot of them don't guard, but the point is that a dog that guards resources, either from other animals or from people, is not an unnatural animal -- it's a lot closer to being natural than a dog who lets you take anything away from him. Unfortunately, it's also a problem to live with.

 

I don't make my dogs eat together. There are certain stresses involved when you make animals live with other animals they do not choose to live with. I also don't screw around with my dogs' food bowls on purpose while they are eating, although they will all allow me to remove food and treats without protest. I don't believe in introducing artificial tensions into situations when they aren't necessary just to be able to say that I can. I think dogs that I keep as pets deserve to eat in peace.

 

When I did have a dog with resource guarding problems, I found that confrontational methods only made him worse. It was very easy to intimidate him either physically or through aggressive, authoritative behavior (most anxious dogs would probably conflate the two, in that acting authoritative would be read as a physical threat), given that he was a seven-pound Papillon. But this did not solve the problem and actually exacerbated it, which is totally logical when you think about what resource guarding really is. When confronted, Skeeter would escalate from growling/snarling to actually biting. Of course upping the ante is going to make things worse, as it does in so many other human/dog confrontations during which dogs growl because they perceive the human as a threat. I can't think of a better way to make things worse than to PROVE to the dog that you indeed are a threat.

 

I think there are a lot of situations where a firm, "don't let him do that" approach works great. For example, that's what I did to reinforce the same Papillon's recall issues, and I got him to stop playing "keep away" by employing walkdowns. But in some situations it isn't that simple. In Skeeter's case, trading games worked like a charm.

[Lenajo]

I second this, you can only train a cat through rewards.

 

Wrong.

 

Guarding is normal behavior. Dogs are hard-wired to guard. It is a testament to the powers of natural and artificial selection that a lot of them don't guard, but the point is that a dog that guards resources, either from other animals or from people, is not an unnatural animal -- it's a lot closer to being natural than a dog who lets you take anything away from him. Unfortunately, it's also a problem to live with.

 

I don't make my dogs eat together. There are certain stresses involved when you make animals live with other animals they do not choose to live with. I also don't screw around with my dogs' food bowls on purpose while they are eating, although they will all allow me to remove food and treats without protest. I don't believe in introducing artificial tensions into situations when they aren't necessary just to be able to say that I can. I think dogs that I keep as pets deserve to eat in peace.

 

Guarding objects to the point of damaging the rest of the pack may be "natural", but it's not "normal". Or have I missed some books on wild dogs and wolves where they suddently decide they own a rock or a stick they found and bloody or kill the next pack member that walks by? or better yet, attack the next non-canine that comes by that's bigger than them for the same reason? Food guarding - it's mine, let me alone so I can eat it - to another dog is I agree natural, and moderatable/trainable within what the home wants. But this extreme guarding - that is not a normal behavior.

 

I've not noticed any stress within established packs who are structured/trained to eat together. I agree that domestic packs are artificial in that they don't choose each other, but I also believe that most well managed packs are not stressed by a co-eating arrangment if the other part of domestication (us) is doing our job.

 

Do you honestly believe that my pack, or JulieP's, are not "eating in peace"?

 

Papillions are well...sheesh. These toy dogs do live by different rules don't they

[MaggieDog]

To add to my original reply, all my animals eat in the same vicinity but are expected to stay in their designated spots while eating and not bug anyone else - this applies for all three dogs *and* the cat.

 

Our set up is the following:

 

- Dogs assemble while I make their food bowls up. Much of the time I ask for sit or down stays from all of them while this is happening (the 6mo pup is required to do a stay at all times currently). The cat generally steers clear of this prep work.

- On cue, all dogs will run to their appointed spots (crates in my home office in their case); if the cat is roaming at that time he generally will follow them into the room.

- I feed in order of seniority for the dogs, so Mags gets her bowl first, then Z, then I lift Laddy into his crate since it's stacked on Maggie's and give him his treatball of food. All dogs are taught never to approach the others while they are at their bowls.

- The cat is fed last and then kenneled while he eats so the dogs don't push him out of the way to get to his kibble.

 

Initially the cat would try to horn in on the dogs' food, but each time a dog growled at him, I removed him from the situation (no words, just calm removal) and he quickly learned that horning in = removal and confinement in his kennel, so he no longer approaches dogs eating.

 

All my animals are fine with me removing food and toys from them and we've never had any issue with this, though Laddy does like a good game of keep away still lol.