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Looking ahead - working stock.


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Two issues here, bunch of questions -

I've been looking for information on available opportunities for Meg's 'career' (including agility etc) down the road.

 

Meg at under 5 months is still too young to be evaluated let alone put to work, but I want to start sorting out some questions now.

 

If I can find a reliable, accessible outlet for her to work sheep on a once weekly basis, should I?

 

What if I can supplement or replace this work with ducks at home, how to decide? We are on wetlands so sheep on this property are probably out.

 

My surrounding neighbor is going to keep cattle again to maintain his farm classification, what can I do proactively to prepare Meg for being expoed to cattle to insure a good outcome?

 

I was dismayed to realize that this place http://www.ewe-topia.com/ only hosts AKC 'herding' trials. Does anyone know anything about it? Any one know if there is there some place else close (within 60 miles) of Seattle where Meg can be evaluated and work?

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Working sheep weekly - If you can find a good trainer and can do this, go for it! It is not ideal if your dog can only be on stock "on occasion" but it is doable. There are many people who don't have stock of their own that go weekly (or even less) because that's all they can do. You may fret between trips to work on stock but your dog won't. Dogs live in the present.

 

Keep Meg busy in between with other activities. If you aren't planning on trialing at Open and serious competitive stock work, you can enjoy agility, fetch games, and whatever else you choose to do. Some folks are adamant about not doing "other things" but if your dog won't be working significantly and daily, or training and trialing at upper levels, it will do no harm (in my opinion).

 

Ducks at home - I don't have ducks and have never worked with them, but there are members here who have (Rebecca, Irena Farm - for one). Find out opinions from folks like her with the experience. There are many different types of ducks that work differently. And, ducks can become "sour" over time (I believe) so there are management strategies to make them work for training.

 

Cattle around you - This could be an issue. A dog that has the instinct and desire to work stock may (whether you expose her to sheep or ducks or anything else) turn on to whatever stock is visible from your home. That could be cattle, horses, whatever.

 

If you need to avoid her turning on to the cattle, you might need a privacy fence so that she is not able to watch and fixate on the cattle.

 

That said, we have cattle and we train on sheep (because training with a professional on cattle is not generally available to me) only once every three to four weeks. My dogs are interested in the cattle more than anything because the cattle are their "work", but they do have an off-switch.

 

In other words, although they can see the cattle from the house oftentimes, they don't sit and stare. They aren't in the yard without supervision so they don't fixate on the cattle there, either. I can take them out to potty or play fetch, with cattle within 50 to 100 yards, and they will do their business or play the game.

 

That's because, when they are working, they know it and they are in "working mode". When they are "off duty", they are off duty, and they know that, too.

 

I sure hope you are able to pursue training Meg. Working your dog on stock is like nothing else.

 

I did go to that website you mentioned and it is nothing like what I have experienced in my limited exposure to training opportunities. It sounds totally AKC, etc., and strictly hobby and title oriented. Try to find a good USBCHA trainer. Maybe check on www.littlehats.net to see if there is anyone listed in your area, or contact Geri Byrnes at Border Collies in Action to see if she knows and could recommend someone in your area. There are some folks on these boards who are located nearer your area and they might be able to point your towards some one.

 

Another alternative for learning is to attend a good clinic. A benefit of a clinic is that you can learn for two (or three) days. You not only work your own dog (usually twice a day, for a short period, maybe only a few minutes or maybe 15 minutes or so) but you get the opportunity to watch many dogs worked and learn from the clinician as each participant works their dog(s).

 

I hope you are able to find a trainer and situation that will provide you with a good foundation in stockwork. It is addicting, as I am sure you are well aware!

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I have stock at home (as Sue mentioned, ducks as well as sheep). One huge lesson I've learned over the years, after starting about half a dozen dogs on my own with no guidance: it's far, far better to get help to begin with if you are not confident in your abilities in handling livestock and especially if you have limited experience with advanced dog training. So if you don't have the advantage of either experience (extensive livestock or extensive dog training) it's far better to have one lesson a week, or even a month, or even once every six months, where everything is set up for success to maximize your dog's learning (not to mention yours).

 

I go to a clinic with Jack Knox about every six months. When there, he invariably creams me (in the nicest and most humorous way) for bad habits I've instilled in my dogs. Usually things that I've gone to great lengths to instill, in fact. Like most recently, poor Ann's restrictive "obedience" that had a tendency to fail, explosively. I had another dog years ago that I went to great trouble to MAKE him stop where I wanted him to, about a hair shy of balance. Arrrgh.

 

There's a dog I see at this clinic, every six months, whose training I've seen progress from first exposure to working a pronovice course. The only time she ever sees sheep is at these clinics, if I'm not mistaken. Each time she comes out of the box perfect, remembering her lessons from last time, and ready to progress a little more. When asked where they practice, they always say, "On the couch in front of the TV." And Jack always makes the point that quality is far better than quantity (and it's only my imagination that he's looking rather pointedly at me right? :rolleyes: ).

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Rebecca - He must be looking in TWO directions, towards you and towards me!

 

Looking forward to seeing you soon. We need to find out what time you and we (Hope and myself) are getting to the motel. The reservations are in my name and they will probably want to imprint my card at check-in. I need to talk to Hope and see what our arrival time will be. I'll get back with you.

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Sue - you bet! I'm counting the days - and doing my "homework." My goal is to walk Ann into the field off leash, and turn away from the sheep. I have dreams of doing this but I'm afraid that in a new place they'll be only that, dreams . . .maybe I'll just have a little leash on her, just in case. Sigh. I'll have to arrive Thursday evening, prob around dinnertime - when will you get there?

 

Yeah, I think Jack is like those really annoying but really great preachers who can make it seem like they wrote the sermon just for YOU.

 

Really, I can get a lot from listening to any Open handler - I just have started hearing more when I talk to people I'm familiar with. And Jack's been teaching clinics so long he's got his message down pat, which helps me - I have to hear something multiple times before it sinks in.

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I have to hear something multiple times before it sinks in.
Amen, Sister!

 

I'll talk to Hope and get an ETA for Thursday. I'd like to get there early enough to settle in the motel before dark, if possible. Since Hope works, I have to check with her and see when we can leave here, though.

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