teaching the shed

[Lana]

Carol, how do you teach the shed? Do you use a large group of over 50, or more like 10-15? Do you like a dog to come all the way thru, or stop and walk into the group you are facing? I have learned several different ways, and i am trying to fine tune what i like so i am looking for how others teach for any new ideas. This is pretty broad so i was just hoping for the basics of how you train the shed.

 

Thanks

 

Lana

[Guest carol campion]

Carol, how do you teach the shed? Do you use a large group of over 50, or more like 10-15? Do you like a dog to come all the way thru, or stop and walk into the group you are facing? I have learned several different ways, and i am trying to fine tune what i like so i am looking for how others teach for any new ideas. This is pretty broad so i was just hoping for the basics of how you train the shed.

 

Thanks

 

Lana

 

Hi Lana

 

Its nice to have a familiar face!

 

How I approach shedding depends on the dog. I don't try it with too small a group because in the beginning, I am looking for opportunities to take advantage of rather than a set "now we are going to learn to shed" situation, and a sizable group certainly lends towards that. I do like to see if there is a mix that will naturally try to separate so it is easy on the dog. I don't expect the dog to have to really do anything in the beginning except come to me. My groups would be about 8 to 15 or so. Sometimes too big a determined group might run over a young dog if they are trying to stay together.

 

I do like to make sure my off balance and correct shaped flanks are in place when I start working with a dog to maneuver for shedding. It is through those off balance—release flanks that the dog learns to let sheep go. Without that frame of mind, I think the dog is easily lulled into that mind set of "hold the sheep to you" which does not allow a shed very easily. The sheep can feel when the dog is holding them and they will bunch up to the handler. That makes it hard for a young, inexperienced dog to want to come through. They are too busy balancing and holding.

 

Early on in my training, I do want the dog to come all the way through so they don't get to anticipating the shed and coming up short on the group as they turn in. I also want them to wear the sheep a bit and they might need to be flanked back and forth as they are holding the group away to realize that are free to do that.

 

When they come through in the beginning, I let them turn on whatever group they want so there is some "effect" from the coming through. Later I refine it to what group I want.

 

Another thing I do early on and often is shed off a group and move them some distance away. Then I flank the dog to the side that will allow the sheep to start to regroup. I will then flank the dog on around and call it "in here" to keep them from regrouping. The dogs love it and you can increase the difficulty by waiting longer and longer to "save" the shed group.

 

I'll wait to hear from you on more specifics as yours was a general question and I hope I have addressed it properly.

 

Carol

 

 

 

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[Lana]

Carol, i did not have a specific question i just like to pick experts brain if i have them captive When Geri has Derek S for clinics i always end up talking to him about sheep instead of dogs.

 

Blue loves to shed and took to it so easily i thought i had it. Then i started to teach Kell and i felt like i had not learned a darn thing about shedding. We were really struggling until Elizabeth told me one day to stop trying to shed with Kell like he was Blue, she pointed out they have totally different methods on sheep, and i needed to handle up and figure Kell out. That was light bulb moment, and i stated to study sheds with dogs that worked similar to Kell.

 

Right now i am teaching Nell to shed( the dog i was talking about in Bill's forum) Having less eye she is very willing to come in, and i am just second guessing my ways to make sure i am adapting my style to that dog.

 

I did notice she was not wanting to take her stop, and i see from what you wrote that she was concerned about not being in balance. I had not thought of it in those terms, and probably need to slow it down some. She was willing to walk one group off, but was worried about the ones left behind. I think as she is such a willing dog, and coming along so well now, the temptation is there to take her along too quickly on the shed. I must be vigilant about my competitive steak

 

Thanks

 

Lana

[Guest carol campion]

The one exercise that they all love is the one I mentioned already—to flank off to allow the shed sheep start to regroup and when the sheep are trying to regroup, to flank the dog on around again and call it back through. That way they are meeting sheep head on that are trying to get together—rather than sheep running off from them once shed. I think it helps them "get" the whole task at hand and get more preoccupied with taking charge of the held group rather than worry about what is left behind.

 

I love watching the dogs in the shedding ring to see which ones really understand what the job is. There are some dogs that you can tell really get it and are shifting their attention into shed mode. Look for it in your dogs eyes!

 

One thing I do when I am teaching a shed is start telling my dog "shed" once they have come in and are holding the separated sheep. Then as they get more used to shedding, I find I can tell my dog before we start "shed" as I enter the ring or start to separate sheep at home. I can see their entire demeanor shift over to the mind set of shedding. They let go of only balancing and holding sheep to me though anyone else looking might never see it.

 

Keep us posted how it goes and what you find the differences are with your dogs.

 

Carol

[Lana]

Carol, Karen Child taught me that shed exercises when i started with Blue, one thing i really like about it is that all dogs seem to get jazzed from it. It is especially good for Kell who really likes his sheep all neat, but likes to face and push too, so he is rewarded for coming in.

 

The difference in the shed ring from Blue and Kell is that Blue can settle his sheep, and Kell often scares them when he gets up and moves to flank. With Kell i need to use the flank as little as possible and always walk the sheep onto him when he is down. It also helps if he is being asked to come thru and hold the pressure side where they are wanting to run. I like your using the word "shed", i will try that with Nell.

 

I will be working Nell on cattle until the cattle finals, but we will back to mostly sheep work after that. We lamb in May after the cow finals, and she will be my main dog in the pasture this year. I am hoping some natural holding, and sorting work will make her sharp for summer.

 

Thanks again for getting me thinking and re thinking my shed ideas I would add that i often get in the hole i am asking the dog thru and other bone headed stuff that a friend of mine calls "being amongst the sheep"

 

Lana