Breeders

[DTrain]

I plan to write a column on the topic of, how and what puppy to choose and, how and what breeder to choose. I get these questions quite often but just a while ago I got an email from a friend who told me about two things that happened on the weekend. First a young lady took her dog to the park for a run and shortly after they got home the dog died of a heart attack. It was a six month old shepard which she bought from a breeder for $2000. Second, a young man bought a bulldog from a breeder for $1500. Two days after he got the puppy home it had to go to the vet for an eye problem, the repair cost $700 and at the same time the vet examined the dog and determined it has hip dysplacia and the repair for that is about $2000. My friend is asking what can be done. First, we all know that not all breeders are created equal ranging from sleezy to very good. In the case of the shepard I told my friend to have the owner contact the breeder. This is an unusual situation and there could be something more than meets the eye. In the case of the bulldog. The owner contacted the breeder and of course the breeder said that her dogs are perfect and no dog in her line has hip problems. I gave him some information and told him to press the issue.

We know the answer don't we but the average person does not. The average person decides on a dog based on looks, social status etc. They go to a breeder, they see a cute puppy, they get all excited and buy the dog or are sold the dog. Only after the fact do they discover for one reason or another they were wrong. In the case of these two people it is dogs with health problems. I want to create a checklist if you will for nice average people who are just trying to find a loyal and happy dog. I would like to hear your suggestions because I really don't know. I choose my dogs very differently and for a very different purpose. I guess there is some similarity but I am too far removed from the simple best answer. Thanks.

[sea4th]

Do's and Don'ts when buying a dog have been around for a long time, but it never hurts to put together another to put in the face of the dog buying public. I don't know if the dog-buying public has become more educated lately, but there will always be those who know it all already and feel they're beyond useful information.

 

First and foremost, research the breed(s) you're interested in --- and I mean research, by not being in a hurry, by talking to a variety of people in that breed, ones that will tell you the drawbacks as well the the good. In fact, over the years, when people have asked me about certain dogs/breeds that I had, I'd lay on the bad stuff, really thick. If they're still around, then we can talk about why the breed they are asking about is so great.

 

The breeder of the bulldog is a schmuck. If the guy had done his research, he wouldn't have gone to someone who thinks her dogs are faultless. Taking your time, chances are you'll see the crappy breeders fall away from ones that are honest and sincere. My vet who breeds and exhibits pugs says bulldogs have a higher incidence of HD than GSD's --- so unless the breeders bulldogs are built like whippets, I'd venture to say she is full of s--t. Bulldogs are the rage right now. Why anyone would want a genetic disaster like that is beyond me, but that being said, I'm sure after you sort through the profiteers, you'll find reputable breeders.

 

The person should be asking the prospective buyer as many, if not more, questions about themselves, as they are or should be of the breeder.

 

Hope you get a lot of good feedback.

[Jumpin Boots]

I second Sea4th's recommendations and add...

 

Ask for references. I would ask to speak to their vet and other people who have bought their dogs. If you are looking at buying a dog to do a certain job, than ask to speak to other clients who have purchased dogs for the same reason.

 

Ask to have your vet inspect the puppy before the sale is final. Maybe write up a 72 hour contract that you can take the puppy to a vet of your choice, or they can take it there if they don't want to let the dog leave their hands, certainly understandable. Pre-purchase exams are done on horses all the time, and most pounds/rescues (in our area anyway) allow a 72 hour return for documented health issue so why shouldn't a breeder.

 

Contact any club/association the breeder is involved with to verify that they are in good standing and are considered reputable.

[bcnewe2]

I dont' think vets are the place to be asking about breeders. THere is so much more than the physical health of a dog. Vets are very sheltered in what the see and hear unless they are into a particual breed they are as clueless as the general population when it comes to breeders. Not knocking vets just saying they don't know more than what they get to see and that's only about physical health.

JMHO

Kristen

[Malvie]

Something implied in Sea4th's post is the one that, imho, gets 99% of people buying dogs: SLOW DOWN, THINK, DO YOUR HOMEWORK, THINK, MEDITATE ON WHAT IT MEANS TO HAVE A DOG, THINK. After you've done all that, THINK SOME MORE. SLOW DOWN.

 

I think most people buy dogs on impluse, on the spur of the moment, with absolutely no thought given to breed characteristics, their own living circumstances (which is how you see Great Danes living in tiny NYC apartments), or the LENGTH OF TIME to which they're committing, or the amount of their personal freedom they're giving up (dogs have to pee and poop and expect to be fed on time, and that's every day, 365 days a year). How often do we see a young person buying a dog and then being mad when, having gone out after work on Friday night as usual, drinking/dancing/chasing girls or boys as the case may be/eating at the 24 hour diner, then dragging in at 3, only to find that the dog was unable to hold its bowel and bladder for 14 hours and made a mess?

 

"AWWWWW, IT'S SO CUUUUUUUTE!!!!"

 

Some (young) friends of mine called me this last weekend with that one; they saw the dog in a pet shop (!!!) and "couldn't resist"; such a cute puppy!!!

 

ALL puppies are cute! I've never seen a puppy that wasn't cute (or a kitty that wasn't sweet). They grow up, that's the problem.

 

People going to breeders at all are at least a step ahead.

 

But, having decided to go to a breeder, they get all caught up in the "cute puppy" phase just like the ones above, and wind up with one, rather than carefully researching breeders, THINKING, asking for references (so they can see adult dogs from that breeder), THINKING, and understanding all the problems they can run into, THEN THINKING SOME MORE.

 

THINK before you buy is the biggest thing in my book.

 

Me, I will always rescue in the future. There are many fine breeders, but I'd rather save someone who's in a shelter because his/her first owner didn't THINK.

[Lenajo]

I think the first problem with people seaking dogs is they are usually obcessed with puppies. They don't really want a dog - as in a thinking, breathing, pooping, needs exercise and vet care *dog*.

 

The second problem with people is they either won't look for a good breeder (already discussed) or they do look for a good one and expect that breeder to be more than human when it comes to producing dogs. They refused to accept that breeding, even good breeding, is a crapshoot. It appears to be non-understandable to these people that dogs are living, breathing, animals and nobody can guarantee *exactly* what their offspring will be like. And that...<gasp>...a lot of what they turn out to be will be the direct result of what they buyer does, not the breeder/rescuer.

 

If you want guarantees of health, temperament, structure, or working ability, then you need buy/adopt a dog that is already grown and is exactly what you want/need.

 

So my first thing to say to people when they ask me about "what breeder?" is to ask them "why do you need a dog?" and "what are you going to do if that puppy turns out to be an adult dog thats different than you expected?"

 

Once the buyer/adopter has their head on straight, then finding a good breeder is relatively easy.

 

A partial checklist I suggest based on my own puppy searches is: (and I'm looking for potential to be a working dog that I can train, work, play, and live with using reasonable sensible training methods ):

 

#1 the breeder is breeding for *themselves*. That is they are keeping one or more puppies with the intent to at least train those dogs to adulthood as workers. This eliminates litters that are bred "just to sell" which are often more about whats popular on the market than what was a good cross.

 

#2 the breeder will rarely have more than 2 litters a year, and can tell you without "consulting records" who has the pups from *at least* the last 2-3 years and how they are doing. They will also gladly put you in touch with owners of those pups for references. They can tell you the same about their stud puppies.

 

#3 the breeder regards the dam of the pups as more than a "brood btch" and intends to reward her quality working and breeding career with a permanent home with them. Needless to say, you will need to get references and have a good history on a breeder to be able to see patterns of this. Unfortunately there are a lot of "hump and dump" kennels out there who's pups are often a direct reflection of their attitudes towards their breeding dogs.

 

#4 the breeder has been in the dogs long enough to successfully train *at least one* dog from puppy to Open. People who only buy trained dogs, those who have never started a puppy, or worked through the kinks with putting their own green dog on stock...how can they evaulate a puppy's suitablity for another person? or help you if you have problems with training your pup from them?

 

#5 the breeder will gladly discuss what will be the options for you if a pup doesn't work out. Much debate is out about whether or not a breeder should take a pup back, but more important than that is clarity between the parties at the beginning regarding this issue. If you can't resell/rehome an unsuitable dog (and it happens in even the best of breedings, and the best planned and excuted home situtations) yourself, then you need to deal with a breeder who will help you! (most pet people fit this catagory)

[vjp]

I think I made all the right considerations but got a lemon anyway. I love her to pieces, but now we have health problems, adding to the original expense....

 

My mistake was buying from a breeder in the first place; all my other dogs have been rescues. The problem began at a BC trial where I saw some reds/chocolates, and I just fell in love with them. I just wanted different color fur on my clothes, car, furniture, etc!