First time really training out and about.

[BCDreamer]

The week after I brought Psyche home, I took her to our 4-H Canine class (that my mother teaches, and I help with), just to see if she has any people problems, dog problems, etc.. Not expecting to do much training with her, just to get a grasp on what I'd really need to work on. All went well, no dog, people, or focus issues (well, no focus issues other then those of a 6 month old border collie pup).

 

So, two weeks ago (I know, taking a while to actually post about it!), I took her to the class again, this time I took both Bella and Psyche, with one crate. (When one was out, the other was in) I started out with Bella, because she's the one I was actually working with in those classes, and after she was doing well (she's dog reactive), I put her in her crate, for some off time so I didn't push her too much, and too Psyche out.

 

That little nut has more focus at 6 months old then Bella did at 11 months when she started Obedience! She caught onto everything really quickly, that I asked her to do, and her focus on me was incredible, as well as automatic eye contact (I'd never taught her to give me eye contact, she just got it right off). I was pretty impressed. We did some recall work at the end, which we always do, where we put a table down on it's side, hide the owner behind the table and have the teacher hold the dog while the owner calls for the dog. I did that with her, and she was very quick.

 

Bella also did really well. I've really started to see the change in her. This time last year, she'd spend all class barking and lunging, and last class she barked once but it was short, and just a bark, not a bark/growl, and she 'lunged' once, which was really more of a pull to the other dog, that I quickly had under control. I'm not about to let her sit beside a strange dog and trust her not to react, but I do trust her to be able to be a well behaved dog around others, and I expect it from her.

 

So, now, next week we'll be working on 'Down' (Well, not Bella, she already knows all the commands we're teaching - she's only there to be around other dogs), and I'm wondering how you train a down? With my other trainer (for Bella) we waited until she layed down, then clicked and treated. I didn't really like that method, and it took a long time to teach her, so I'm thinking of doing somethign different with Psyche. Any tips? With my little Zoey, I trained her with luring, and I don't like her down, other wise I'd lure Psyche too...

 

Thanks in advance.

[Ooky]

With my little Zoey, I trained her with luring, and I don't like her down, other wise I'd lure Psyche too...

 

I'm way more of a newbie than you are, but I'm just curious. What don't you like about Zoey's down? I taught Odin's down with luring and it's probably his most solid, instantaneous, will-do-it-in-any-situation cued behavior. We taught it the 2nd day I had him home (good memories ) and even though sit came first, down was more solid from very early on. There's a thread on the board right now about little dogs not liking down as much, maybe that's the issue as opposed to the training method? I know the small dogs in my obedience class had loads of trouble with both sit and down.

 

Glad you are having such a great time with her!

[stockdogranch]

I'm old school, and not into clickers and the like. I use the old step-on-the-leash system. Taught my current 10 week old pup this last week in 5 minutes--literally. You step on the leash, so it slides under the arch of your boot, so you can use more or less pressure. So basically you pull up on the leash (gently) so pup is headed into a down as you say lie down. If needed, the first time, you also gently push one finger between the shoulder blades. When the pup is down, lots of praise while releasing the pressure of the leash. After doing this 5-6 times, all you'll need is a very slight tug (like one pinky) on the leash as you say lie down--down pup goes. End of lesson one--5 minutes. Next day, on the leash, I quietly said lie down (no leash action at all), pup went down. Voila! We have repeated this maybe 3-4 times a day since then, and will move next to a longer line so she is farther away. From there, we move to dragging the long line and saying it, to no leash at all. This is a method I got from the Guide Dogs for the Blind folks many years ago, have used it for many, many dogs, and it works great.

 

A

[cgt]

I use the method Anna describes, too.

 

I've found it works best for me if I don't literally force the dog to lie down,

but exert enough pressure that the dog tries to see if lying down is going to help.

In other words, it's nice if the dog *chooses* to lie down.

Then you say "Good dog", etc.

 

Got my pup to do this pretty much immediately at a couple of months of age and

he has been perfectly reliable with the lie down ever since. Now he is 9 months old.

I just put him on sheep for the first time and, just for fun, stopped the action and said

"Lie down." Needless to say, he looked at me and transmitted "You've got to be

f**ing kidding me.", and took off around the sheep.

Good dog.

 

charlie

[Ms.DaisyDuke]

I used luring with Daisy and her down is immediate and sphinx like. She has a very nice looking down. What don't you like about Zoey's down? You could always train the down in which ever way you want and then shape your "perfect" look with the clicker....

[desertranger]

I'm old school, and not into clickers and the like. I use the old step-on-the-leash system. Taught my current 10 week old pup this last week in 5 minutes--literally. You step on the leash, so it slides under the arch of your boot, so you can use more or less pressure. So basically you pull up on the leash (gently) so pup is headed into a down as you say lie down. If needed, the first time, you also gently push one finger between the shoulder blades. When the pup is down, lots of praise while releasing the pressure of the leash. After doing this 5-6 times, all you'll need is a very slight tug (like one pinky) on the leash as you say lie down--down pup goes. End of lesson one--5 minutes. Next day, on the leash, I quietly said lie down (no leash action at all), pup went down. Voila! We have repeated this maybe 3-4 times a day since then, and will move next to a longer line so she is farther away. From there, we move to dragging the long line and saying it, to no leash at all. This is a method I got from the Guide Dogs for the Blind folks many years ago, have used it for many, many dogs, and it works great.

 

A

 

 

Thank you very much. Like you I'm not into clickers. I've been trying to remember that method for a week. That's the first step to "a crash" down for Jin.

[Jedismom]

Since were talking about "down" perhaps I can get some input from you on Cadi's down. When I ask her for it, she always scoots up close to me to give it, practically on my foot. She acts like she's a little anxious about it. How do I get her to stay put and do it? Thanks!

[Ninso]

Since were talking about "down" perhaps I can get some input from you on Cadi's down. When I ask her for it, she always scoots up close to me to give it, practically on my foot. She acts like she's a little anxious about it. How do I get her to stay put and do it? Thanks!

 

She's probably learned that being close to you is part of the "down" command. One of my fosters would only lay down with his foot on my foot, cause that's the way he did it the first time he got clicked for it. My other dog would only do his "stretch command right up next to me. You'll need to teach Cadi that down means "lay down immediately wherever you are." I would put her in a sit or stand, tell her to wait (if she has a "wait" command) and move back an inch or two. Then give her the down command. If she creeps forward, no reward and try again. Reward her when she lays down right where you put her. Gradually increase distance.

[LazyGRanch]

The week after I brought Psyche home, I took her to our 4-H Canine class (that my mother teaches, and I help with), just to see if she has any people problems, dog problems, etc.. Not expecting to do much training with her, just to get a grasp on what I'd really need to work on. All went well, no dog, people, or focus issues (well, no focus issues other then those of a 6 month old border collie pup).

 

So, two weeks ago (I know, taking a while to actually post about it!), I took her to the class again, this time I took both Bella and Psyche, with one crate. (When one was out, the other was in) I started out with Bella, because she's the one I was actually working with in those classes, and after she was doing well (she's dog reactive), I put her in her crate, for some off time so I didn't push her too much, and too Psyche out.

 

That little nut has more focus at 6 months old then Bella did at 11 months when she started Obedience! She caught onto everything really quickly, that I asked her to do, and her focus on me was incredible, as well as automatic eye contact (I'd never taught her to give me eye contact, she just got it right off). I was pretty impressed. We did some recall work at the end, which we always do, where we put a table down on it's side, hide the owner behind the table and have the teacher hold the dog while the owner calls for the dog. I did that with her, and she was very quick.

 

Bella also did really well. I've really started to see the change in her. This time last year, she'd spend all class barking and lunging, and last class she barked once but it was short, and just a bark, not a bark/growl, and she 'lunged' once, which was really more of a pull to the other dog, that I quickly had under control. I'm not about to let her sit beside a strange dog and trust her not to react, but I do trust her to be able to be a well behaved dog around others, and I expect it from her.

 

So, now, next week we'll be working on 'Down' (Well, not Bella, she already knows all the commands we're teaching - she's only there to be around other dogs), and I'm wondering how you train a down? With my other trainer (for Bella) we waited until she layed down, then clicked and treated. I didn't really like that method, and it took a long time to teach her, so I'm thinking of doing somethign different with Psyche. Any tips? With my little Zoey, I trained her with luring, and I don't like her down, other wise I'd lure Psyche too...

 

Thanks in advance.

 

 

I guess I really shouldn't reply, because I'm a cheater--my GSD came knowing what down meant. He only knew down from "sit", and I wanted a fold-back down. Since he already knew what "down" was, we played a "red light green light" type game, I'd get him all riled up, we'd tug, etc, and I'd stop and say "DOWN!", and (since he was "in drive") he would slam his whole body onto the ground in a half a nanosecond, and I would mark and we'd get the game rolling again. The faster his down was, the faster he got to get back up and chase the ball/stick/whatever. His downs are fast, snappy, and funny because 90 pounds of dog hitting the ground in the house can knock pictures off the walls

[BCDreamer]

Ooky, her down isn't very solid, and it's not very fast. I don't know if it's how I trained it, or her, or just that I wasn't demanding enough when training it.

 

Bella has a drop down 'down', and I like it. She's quick at it, and it's really reliable, but I hate how I trained it.

 

LazyGRanch, that's how my big GSD (Bella) is with her down, too, and I love it. I worked quite hard with her to get that fast down.

 

I was gonna try 'luring' Psyche under my knee (like, crawling under my knee), and say down as her chest hit the floor, but I don't think I like that much.

 

I'd prefer not to use the 'old school' methods above, since the class she'll be working on this is in a strictly "positive" class.

 

I guess I'll have to do some searching.

 

Thanks!

[LazyGRanch]

Ooky, her down isn't very solid, and it's not very fast. I don't know if it's how I trained it, or her, or just that I wasn't demanding enough when training it.

 

Bella has a drop down 'down', and I like it. She's quick at it, and it's really reliable, but I hate how I trained it.

 

LazyGRanch, that's how my big GSD (Bella) is with her down, too, and I love it. I worked quite hard with her to get that fast down.

 

I was gonna try 'luring' Psyche under my knee (like, crawling under my knee), and say down as her chest hit the floor, but I don't think I like that much.

 

I'd prefer not to use the 'old school' methods above, since the class she'll be working on this is in a strictly "positive" class.

 

I guess I'll have to do some searching.

 

Thanks!

 

I'm curious here, what a "strictly" positive class is like. I've taken my dogs through several classes with the same trainer, she's upbeat and we do really fun stuff in class (like tic tac toe, with our dogs as the X's and O'x!), but this is a pet manners class and nothing to do with competition, etc. But I've yet to find a trainer (or a handler, for that matter) who is only PR and nothing else. My dogs know "eht" means "stop doing that". It's not positive, it's a slight aversive, just like witholding a click can be aversive depending on the dog. My pap finds a finger snap in his direction horribly aversive, but my GSD barely blinks if I roar "QUIT THAT!", so I guess it can really depend on the dogs softness level and temperament Thoughts?

[BCDreamer]

I suppose "strictly" was the wrong word. We're working with a group of young, willing to learn kids, and we prefer to not use methods where they're taught to psyicially 'force' the dog to do what we want (though I in no way have a problem with the method given above!). We use verbal corrections (well, I do with my GSD), so I guess it's not purely positive, because that's a correction.

 

My wording was worng. My apologies. However, I hope you get what I'm saying. I'd prefer to find a method to teach her down that fits in with what we're teaching the rest of the class, you know?

[LazyGRanch]

I suppose "strictly" was the wrong word. We're working with a group of young, willing to learn kids, and we prefer to not use methods where they're taught to psyicially 'force' the dog to do what we want (though I in no way have a problem with the method given above!). We use verbal corrections (well, I do with my GSD), so I guess it's not purely positive, because that's a correction.

 

My wording was worng. My apologies. However, I hope you get what I'm saying. I'd prefer to find a method to teach her down that fits in with what we're teaching the rest of the class, you know?

 

No problem, and I totally understand what you're saying now, and I agree with what you're saying

If it helps, I've done a lot of luring, and a lot of times I gradually fade that lure into the (subtle) hand signal I was hoping to teach in the first place.

[BCDreamer]

I may try the way I taught Bella. Just waiting until she lays, click when she does with a "good down!" for a few tries, then say "Down" just as her chest hits the floor. ...

[mbc1963]

My trainer tried to get me to teach "down" with some kind of physical push - can't remember whether it was tugging on the leash or pushing down on the shoulders. But, with our previous dogs, my family always just put them in a "sit" and then dragged treats forward and down so they followed. It always worked, and it worked with Buddy. He's got a really strong "down." He actually would rather give a "down" than a "sit." I think it's just what's more comfortable for him.

 

After he knew the command, I did spend some time out in the woods reinforcing it. Wait. Down. Stay. I started just walking a few steps away, then when he mastered it, would walk a good distance away and make him hold the down. Getting a treat in the middle of his walk for not really working hard made him very happy.

 

Mary

[D'Elle]

I am having an interesting time trying to teach the Very Small Dog that I am training to do a Down. I have never had a problem teaching a down before, but of course a regular-sized dog pretty much has to go into a down when lured with a treat, as I have always trained it.

 

this tiny doggie simply jumps up from her sit every time I do it. I haven't gotten her even close to a Down yet, not even close enough to click that she's headed in the right direction. I am a bit stumped. Not really wanting to do the pull-on-the-leash bit, due to her extreme Smalness.

D'Elle

[Cody & Duchess]

We use the lure down method at the shelter I volunteer at. A rancher from Texas showed me the leash method once - I have used that at the shelter when I have a quick pop up type dog. Lure down wtih food, but have the leash under my foot - so give the down stay some length. This really has helped with jack in the box dogs, ( other trainers thought I was brilliant - who would have thought?) Then when I have a relaxed dog I work on the stay command and walking around the dog. Love those common sense ranchers. Need to have one on speed dial.

[eclare]

I don't know if this is exactly what everyone else means by "luring" but I taught down by kneeling with one leg at a 90 degree angle, creating a tunnel of sorts. In order to get the treat, the dog actually has to crawl under the tunnel to get it. This method forces the dog to problem solve a little bit which I've always found to be helpful in making the mental connection. Once you've added the verbal cue consistently you can take away the tunnel. It worked pretty quickly for us, and I suspect it would for most BCs and other "smart" breeds.

[BCDreamer]

D'Elle, I have a Mini Aussie (And I believe you're training a Mini Aussie, or a Toy Aussie *shudders*), and I trained her down while I was sitting on the ground. Was easier on my back to keep luring her into her down.

 

eclare, that's how I was going to do it with Psyche... But I think I'm just going to do the wait her out and click and treat as soon as she downs.

[BorderCollieSam]

I got Sam at 6 weeks old and by 8 weeks he was downing on command without any physical effort from me.

 

I taught him sit first, then from a sit position held a treat in front of his nose for him to smell and then lowered my hand to the floor whilst saying 'Down'.

 

I then stopped the treat in front of the nose and just gave the command and then treated him on completion of the action.

[BCDreamer]

BorderCollieSam, I've tried that, and similar things to that, but she doesn't down. I guess she's just weird.

[BorderCollieSam]

BorderCollieSam, I've tried that, and similar things to that, but she doesn't down. I guess she's just weird.

 

OK, i must admit i act a little 'silly' around my dog, have you tried that?

 

What i mean is, i act and speak/sound a lot different when i'm training Sam than i do when i'm speaking to another adult. This makes Sam excited and i think it actually helps with his training, as he gets excited and full of energy and seems to want to please me so badly.

 

I'm not claiming to be an expert, just somebody who has had a few dogs through the years and found a method that seems to stimulate a dog and have stuck with it.

 

I talk to Sam in a high pitch voice, exactly as i did my children when they were babies, laying in their bouncer and i was trying to make them laugh, or when i was feeding them and wanted their mouth to open so i could get the spoon in, i used to play aeroplanes with the spoon and they learnt when the aeroplane/spoon made a certain noise on approaching their mouth they opened it!

 

Also, how about finding an activity that your dog likes and give the command before performing the acticity? I bet this will work, i do it with Sam to, he loves a game of fetch and before i throw the ball i give the down command and he knows the ball won't be thrown until he performs a down.

[BCDreamer]

I talk goofy to my dogs and am one of those "Don't be afraid to look foolish for your dog" people. I'll jump around, flop my arms, etc., but I just can't lure her into a down.