How many dogs needed?

[Sengdroma]

Hi we have a farm in Ontario where we currently mix graze until our pastures are fully seeded.

 

We breed Katahdins and at present have 30 sheep including lambs. 2 cows ands 3 pigs.

 

Our current dog is reaching old age and so we are now discussing which breed to get next. Having had working breeds all our lives we are keen to continue this. We have had a Newf which we water worked and our old dog is one of the last dual purpose labs from the UK.

 

Now we have the sheep we have decided on a border collie but are unsure how many dogs we would need? 1 or 2?

 

Do they work better in pairs? Do the amount of livestock we have need more than 1 dog?

 

We would need to go to dog training as collies are new to us. Would you suggest stick with 1 puppy go to training classes and then grow together as a partnership. Then in a few years time when the dog is 5 years old or so get another puppy allowing the working dog to help in the training of the new one?

 

Or is there another way that people would suggest?

 

Sorry for our ignorance but its important to get this right. We have only a small farm with 40 acres.

[afrancis]

Wow! I'm jealous. Whereabouts in Ont are you?

 

Don't have working experience, but many on here do and will give you much more solid advice than I. But I would bet dollars to donuts that they'll say exactly what you said, ie.:

 

We would need to go to dog training as collies are new to us. Would you suggest stick with 1 puppy go to training classes and then grow together as a partnership. Then in a few years time when the dog is 5 years old or so get another puppy allowing the working dog to help in the training of the new one?

 

Whether you'd even need two dogs with 30 sheep, others will be able to tell you. Maybe not.

Ailsa

[Pili]

Have you considered getting an already trained working dog and a puppy that the older dog could help train? If you have never had a collie and would be learning to handle one yourself, it may be worth the investment of getting one that could teach you how to do it right.

[amc]

Hi we have a farm in Ontario where we currently mix graze until our pastures are fully seeded.

 

We breed Katahdins and at present have 30 sheep including lambs. 2 cows ands 3 pigs.

 

Our current dog is reaching old age and so we are now discussing which breed to get next. Having had working breeds all our lives we are keen to continue this. We have had a Newf which we water worked and our old dog is one of the last dual purpose labs from the UK.

 

Now we have the sheep we have decided on a border collie but are unsure how many dogs we would need? 1 or 2?

 

Do they work better in pairs? Do the amount of livestock we have need more than 1 dog?

 

We would need to go to dog training as collies are new to us. Would you suggest stick with 1 puppy go to training classes and then grow together as a partnership. Then in a few years time when the dog is 5 years old or so get another puppy allowing the working dog to help in the training of the new one?

 

Or is there another way that people would suggest?

 

Sorry for our ignorance but its important to get this right. We have only a small farm with 40 acres.

Welcome to the Boards! You will find a wealth of information here.

One dog will be plenty for your needs, especially a trained one, to teach you and to teach your sheep how to be managed by a dog. You'll want a youngster before too long, to keep your needs met in the future.

 

Amelia Smith is offering her Imported Lad to a good home. He had an injury which ended his trialing career but she says he is sound for work and is fully trained. He is from stellar working lines from Wales and she's had him for a few years now. If he is still available, he would be well worth the shipping costs to get him to Ontario as he would teach you much and manage your sheep with ease. Amelia's website is www. bordersmith.com which has his picture, pedigree, and contact information.

 

Please don't go the 'new puppy' route unless you are prepared to wait at least 18 months for it to be barely useful on your sheep, and unless you have ready access to someone who REALLY knows how to raise and train a Border Collie pup for work. It's like putting a green rider on a rank colt otherwise; not good for any party. Add to the fact that your Katahdin flock is not used to being worked by dogs and you have a real recipe for failure. A trained dog will be your best mentor, teacher and friend.

 

Good luck! I will direct Amelia to your post as well, just in case that might work out for all of you.

 

Please keep us posted, and take care,

 

Amy

[somewhereinusa]

One dog is more than enough for 30 sheep, but is one dog ever enough? If you need to have a dog to handle your livestock right now, I would suggest a retired trial dog, many of them are quite capable of doing that kind of farm work. If you get a pup, there are lessons, someone should really come and move your sheep a bit to get them used to being moved by a dog. and the time involved in getting the pup old enough to work and you learning how to train a dog. With the older dog, you still need to learn how to do it, but the dog already knows how. The pup is pretty much a crap shoot, but the older dog isn't necessarily "what you see is what you get". A dog will only be as good as the handler.

If it were me, I'd get the pup, but I've done it many times before.

[Sengdroma]

Thanks for the advice.

 

Any older dog would have to be child and cat friendly and house trained!! But these are questions that you ask the current owner.

 

I would like to see an older dog work before getting hold of one, unless the person selling it can be really trusted.

 

The only problem I would have importing one is my immigration status - I tried to import livestock from the states before and was told that despite being a permanent resident as I do not have citizenship I cannot be granted an import licence. So that will not come for another 18 months.

[DTrain]

I am also in Ontario, SW. I wonder how close you are and if I can be helpful. I like the idea of getting a trained dog and you can learn to handle him, it would not take you long. You could get a puppy later and you would have a dog coming up. I have three dogs ages 2, 4, and 6. One dog can most certainly handle your flock. There are some good breeders in Ontario. My dogs our from the west which also has some good breeders. Let me know if you would like some help finding a dog. I was offered a dog a couple of weeks ago from a great breeder and top handler. She is two years old, fully trained and from an outstanding line and, the price was fantastic. I would take her in a moment but I am reaching the age where my dogs may outlive me.