Debbie Meier Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 I took on a retired open dog yesterday and she brought a question to mind, what should I expect from my dog when I use a growl to correct him in a case where he gives me an incorrect response, such as if he is walking up and I want him to flank and he refuses to flank. Do I just want him to stop, should he get right or should he shut off totally until I redirect him? Today when I was working Vicki she was blowing off my flank command, I gave her a correction growl and it was almost as if I shot her, she checked out, looked at me, I gave her the command again and off she went on her merry way executing the proper command. It made me question as to whether I am accepting to little from my dog when I growl at him or if Vicki just over-reacted due to not being completely familuar with me. Deb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest carol campion Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 I took on a retired open dog yesterday and she brought a question to mind, what should I expect from my dog when I use a growl to correct him in a case where he gives me an incorrect response, such as if he is walking up and I want him to flank and he refuses to flank. Do I just want him to stop, should he get right or should he shut off totally until I redirect him? Today when I was working Vicki she was blowing off my flank command, I gave her a correction growl and it was almost as if I shot her, she checked out, looked at me, I gave her the command again and off she went on her merry way executing the proper command. It made me question as to whether I am accepting to little from my dog when I growl at him or if Vicki just over-reacted due to not being completely familuar with me. Deb Deb, it depends on what you taught him the correction meant. You have to actually set up and teach the response you want from any correction. Some corrections are kind of "broad spectrum" so the dog knows it is doing something wrong but they are left guessing what that is and/or if something specific should follow. Decide what response you want from your corrections and work towards that response before you expect it to be immediate and consistent. That way all your communicating is enhanced. Good luck with the new dog! Carol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debbie Meier Posted April 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 Deb, it depends on what you taught him the correction meant. You have to actually set up and teach the response you want from any correction. Some corrections are kind of "broad spectrum" so the dog knows it is doing something wrong but they are left guessing what that is and/or if something specific should follow. Decide what response you want from your corrections and work towards that response before you expect it to be immediate and consistent. That way all your communicating is enhanced. Good luck with the new dog! Carol But that's the problem, what do I want? I could see where building my growl correction up to a flat out stop what your doing and release yourself from the sheep would take the sheep away from the dog putting alot of bite in my correction, if done correctly I would not have to use it much. Vs. using the growl just to get him to check himself, then I could see using the growl quite a bit. It probably seems nuts, but I really don't want to have to correct my dog, I want him/her to want to be right, making me lean to a more strict correction response. I was thinking back when I watched another trainer working a dog that was refusing to take his inside flank command when he had the sheep locked up, he growled at the dog, the dog did not respond, he walked up to the dog, clipped a short chain on it and gave it good what for, released it and then sent it on his inside flank. I saw this before we ever purchased our first border collie and was amazed how much the dog took, my past thinking was that you couldn't get that tough on them, it didn't register until yesterday, that he was making that growl have teeth. I guess this is much the same as showing a person what the end product should look like, but it's up to them as to what training method they want to apply to get there. Deb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest carol campion Posted April 1, 2009 Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 But that's the problem, what do I want? I could see where building my growl correction up to a flat out stop what your doing and release yourself from the sheep would take the sheep away from the dog putting alot of bite in my correction, if done correctly I would not have to use it much. Vs. using the growl just to get him to check himself, then I could see using the growl quite a bit. It probably seems nuts, but I really don't want to have to correct my dog, I want him/her to want to be right, making me lean to a more strict correction response. I was thinking back when I watched another trainer working a dog that was refusing to take his inside flank command when he had the sheep locked up, he growled at the dog, the dog did not respond, he walked up to the dog, clipped a short chain on it and gave it good what for, released it and then sent it on his inside flank. I saw this before we ever purchased our first border collie and was amazed how much the dog took, my past thinking was that you couldn't get that tough on them, it didn't register until yesterday, that he was making that growl have teeth. I guess this is much the same as showing a person what the end product should look like, but it's up to them as to what training method they want to apply to get there. Deb Yup, this is just what you have to decide. To me, constant "growling" that isn't making a change is just nagging. You need a way to have a dog stop what it is doing but also know what to replace it with. Otherwise you leave them guessing. So for you as a trainer. you must decide. My first correction is a "stop". They cant go wrong if they are not moving. My stop is a mental reset button. I then ask again. If they go wrong, assume I didn't teach teach the required phase of work properly or the dog needs more pressure to comply. I go back to make sure they know how to do what I am asking. If I don't get it and a correction and re-asking doesn't work, I but pressure on them and get into their space. A correction with some bite. I am also taking the sheep away. One of the hardest things for trainers to learn is how and when to give a correction and how to make sure the dog responds properly to it. Otherwise corrections are just "blah, blah, blah, Spot". Something a dog has to tolerate hearing while they go on with their plan. It can make a harder or sulky dog-depending on the type. carol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debbie Meier Posted April 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2009 Thank you, that get's me out of the fog, atleast for now. Deb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbowles Posted April 3, 2009 Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 " My first correction is a "stop". " What do you mean by a "stop"? IS this the actual command or a correction then sit/stay command ??? Sorry for the hijack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest carol campion Posted April 6, 2009 Report Share Posted April 6, 2009 " My first correction is a "stop". " What do you mean by a "stop"? IS this the actual command or a correction then sit/stay command ??? Sorry for the hijack. Hi sorry to be slow responding. I was away. If my dogs are going wrong—slicing a flank-taking the wrong flank-pushing too hard—I will ask them to stop. My stop is a "lie down". I don't use a correction like a "hey" or "no" anything like that first. I used to. I feel it takes more time to get to the problem. It is another step. So I prefer to stop them, give them a chance to clear their brain out, then ask again. If they go wrong again, I follow the steps already mentioned earlier. Carol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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