I have another parvo question.

[Tommy Coyote]

Are people here familiar with Dr. Pitcairn? He is one of the biggies for the holistic people. They quote him like he was God.

 

They are all really anti yearly innoculations. I could have sworn that I read in Pitcairn's book that he advocated giving just one parvo shot at 12 weeks.

 

Geesh! That can't be right. That advice would be completely irresponsible.

 

These guys also don't like keeping dogs on heartworm medication because its a chemical. But they also don't live in areas where heartworm is a big problem. I would be scared to death to not give my dogs heartworm during the summer months. They advocate giving some herb (black walnut, I think but I could have that wrong) and then having them tested for heartworm every six months.

 

Pitcairn wasn't crazy about heartworm medication but he didn't advise people to not use it. Simply because if the animal does get heartworm the treatment is way more toxic than the monthly pills would ever be.

[Lenajo]

Actually one shot, after the age of 12 weeks is more than adequete per the current research. The most recommended, per Dr W. Jean Dodds DVM, is 1 parvo/distemper between 8-12 weeks, and one after 12 weeks.

 

You can do some research of Dodds and R. Shultz DVM regarding the newer vaccine protocols. Which aren't actually that new, as they have been out for a few years. I just did the livestream video of the Dodds seminar at Rutgar's a few weeks ago nd other than a few new things on other immune and thyroid issues, the vaccines were unchanged.

 

Excessive vaccination can put a dog at risk for seizures, autuimmune issues, and chronic health problems - skin allergies, digestive, etc.

 

They are not saying that all these problems are all and 100% caused by vaccines, but that they can be triggered or worsened by vaccination in a prone dog.

 

As to the heartworm, there are many that are concerned about it's potential harm - after all the medication is a poison. Compromises that concerned vets are suggesting are using products like Heartguard only every 45 days - which is documented effective. I have a dog that is allergic to heartworm medications and she has only been on homeopathic nosodes per my vet for years as a working in the deep south. She has yet to contract any heartworms.

[desertranger]

As I understand Parvo the vaccinations are not 100% effective and are only needed in puppies. My vet told me that re occurrence of Parvo can't happe

 

As for heartwork, all I know is what I've read here and I didn't hear of it until I became a member here. it may be one of those things that can't live in the desert like fleas.

[JohnLloydJones]

As for heartwork, all I know is what I've read here and I didn't hear of it until I became a member here. it may be one of those things that can't live in the desert like fleas.

Heartworm was virtually unheard of around here until the relentless march of suburbia and irrigation (and stagnant water). If you have mosquitoes and warm weather you have the potential for heartworm.

[Lenajo]

As I understand Parvo the vaccinations are not 100% effective

 

Correct, since this a virus no vaccine will be 100%. Viruses mutate into many strains as needed to survive.

 

Overvaccination will not make the puppy any safer, and could actually cause harm.

[desertranger]

Heartworm was virtually unheard of around here until the relentless march of suburbia and irrigation (and stagnant water). If you have mosquitoes and warm weather you have the potential for heartworm.

 

 

Does that mean they have to have contact with the stagnant water? There's not a lot of that here.

[sluj]

Besides mosquitoes, can heartworm spread through contact with infected dogs (and their poop)?

[Lenajo]

heartworm is only spread through a mosquito biting an infected heartworm dog, and then biting a non-infected dog.

 

one in a blue moon in very bad husbandry situations I believe it can be passed mother to puppy in utero. There appears to conflicting information on this.

[OurBoys]

Does that mean they have to have contact with the stagnant water? There's not a lot of that here.

Steve (and others who have questions),

You might find this link interesting.

 

Info on mosquitos

 

They have a link on canine heartworms too.

[esox]

As far as Parvo goes; once a dog has survived it is immune to that strain.

[Lenajo]

As far as Parvo goes; once a dog has survived it is immune to that strain.

 

typically they are immune to all strains at that point, not just one. Just as vaccines for one strain provide some cross protection, so does surviving the disease.

[esox]

The way I understand it: What you say is 100% correct until the virus mutates, but I could be wrong.

[Lenajo]

The way I understand it: What you say is 100% correct until the virus mutates, but I could be wrong.

 

Think of it as the viruses of childhood. Once you are vaccinated (and respond normally to from antibodies) or you have the disease that's it. Unless your immune system crashes you aren't going to get that disease again. Chicken Pox for example.

[OurBoys]

Wendy,

Even if the virus mutates, wouldn't a part of the original virus still be a part of the mutated one? Hence, why the animal would be immuned??

[NRhodes]

I don't think a shot at twelve weeks is good enough. What happens if the pups get sick and half die at eleven weeks? Been there, done that, never again. 6, 8, 12, and if I'm feeling nervous another at six months-year. It's been here, it's in the ground and therefore can pop up at any time. Also, I travel a LOT, and you never know when you're going to come in contact with it.

[desertranger]

one in a blue moon in very bad husbandry situations I believe it can be passed mother to puppy in utero. There appears to conflicting information on this.

 

This is correct. It is the first of the two kinds of Pavo known has the cardiac parvo.

 

Just a reminder Jin had all of his shots and should have been immune. Parvo vaccinations are not 100% depending on how strong a particular strain is. Dr Teri ran a second test on Jin due to an anomoly in te first test. However the second just verified the results. Jin had an exceptionally strong strain which is what made the anomaly show up on the test.

 

As for heartworm, I found a distribution map at the American Heartworm site. There have been from 1-5 case reported in the area I live in 2007. Apparently it i very rare here but slowly on the rise. People living in desert communities enjoy some respite.

[Tommy Coyote]

Actually one shot, after the age of 12 weeks is more than adequete per the current research. The most recommended, per Dr W. Jean Dodds DVM, is 1 parvo/distemper between 8-12 weeks, and one after 12 weeks.

 

You can do some research of Dodds and R. Shultz DVM regarding the newer vaccine protocols. Which aren't actually that new, as they have been out for a few years. I just did the livestream video of the Dodds seminar at Rutgar's a few weeks ago nd other than a few new things on other immune and thyroid issues, the vaccines were unchanged.

 

Excessive vaccination can put a dog at risk for seizures, autuimmune issues, and chronic health problems - skin allergies, digestive, etc.

 

They are not saying that all these problems are all and 100% caused by vaccines, but that they can be triggered or worsened by vaccination in a prone dog.

 

As to the heartworm, there are many that are concerned about it's potential harm - after all the medication is a poison. Compromises that concerned vets are suggesting are using products like Heartguard only every 45 days - which is documented effective. I have a dog that is allergic to heartworm medications and she has only been on homeopathic nosodes per my vet for years as a working in the deep south. She has yet to contract any heartworms.

I thought puppies were most vulnerable from 8 weeks to about 16 weeks.

 

I just reread what Marty Goldstein said and he said one shot for parvo at 11 weeks.

 

I would not be comfortable at all with that.

[Mark Billadeau]

Wendy,

Even if the virus mutates, wouldn't a part of the original virus still be a part of the mutated one? Hence, why the animal would be immuned??

If that were how it worked then human flu vaccines would work every year. But the flu strains mutate yearly and the vaccine formulation (which takes many months to develop and manufacture) started the previous flu season sometimes is effective and sometimes is not depending upon how the strains mutated from the previous season.

 

Mark

[Shetlander]

These guys also don't like keeping dogs on heartworm medication because its a chemical. But they also don't live in areas where heartworm is a big problem. I would be scared to death to not give my dogs heartworm during the summer months. They advocate giving some herb (black walnut, I think but I could have that wrong) and then having them tested for heartworm every six months.

 

Quinn is under the care of a holistic vet who studied with Pitcairn. She has strongly encouraged me not to have Quinn on heartworm preventatives due to his sensitivity to chemicals and we live in an area that has heartworm. However, I just can't sit comfortably with that plan and am doing the every 45 days schedule instead. She understands my concerns and respects my decision. I'll titer for parvo and distemper when the time comes and if vaccinate separately if necessary.

 

Before Quinn, I was very skeptical (to put it politely) of holistic/homeopathic stuff. However, after seeing traditional vet care go very wrong with him and an amazing turn-around under the holistic vet, I'm now a believer. I think both traditional and alternative methods have their place. Still it all feels pretty complicated compared to the days when I just fed my dog something from the grocery store and took him in for shots every year and he lived to be 15. But to see a dog that was chronically ill for two years now the picture of ridiculously good health makes the extra thought on vet care worth it.

[Lenajo]

I don't think a shot at twelve weeks is good enough. What happens if the pups get sick and half die at eleven weeks? Been there, done that, never again. 6, 8, 12, and if I'm feeling nervous another at six months-year. It's been here, it's in the ground and therefore can pop up at any time. Also, I travel a LOT, and you never know when you're going to come in contact with it.

 

Disclaimer - this is a *virus*, and because of that there is no 100% solutions.

 

Now...

 

Your best protection is to make sure your pup came from a healthy female. If she is adult and healthy, and the pups nurse normally they will have immunity from her. This turns off somewhere after 12 weeks.

 

The most common age for parvo is now around 16-18 weeks.

 

When you vaccinate before 12 weeks, you run the risk of interrupting the maternal immunity, or they "fight" (I am way shortening the science here for the sake of quick clarity) and ending up with no vaccine response at all. Rememer that with no response in the body (called innoculation) that forms antibodies, the pup will not be safe.

 

The absolute no, from those researchers and vets I quoted, is to vaccinate before 8 weeks. They don't even want the pups exposed to other dogs that were vaccinated within 2 weeks because they shed the killed virus. Puppies exposed to the virus before 8 weeks are at extreme risk of vaccine reaction - both acute and chronic.

 

I socialize my puppies everywhere from 8 weeks on - with the exception of actually playing with a sick dog. They go to pet stores, public events, competitions, etc. They play with numerous breeds of dogs in classes and with friends. I don't worry about them - much anyway LOL. It's the nature of having anything young in your care.

 

My first parvo case was a fully vaccinated (4 shots) and 18 weeks of age almost 9 years ago. Vaccines are not absolutes, and it was obvious by her response to the vaccines now (hindsight) that she vaccinated both too early, and too often.

 

Do some research. You might be better with the 2 shot package, and then a titer at 14 weeks to see if the pup has responded. Don't let fear, and vaccine companies who are about the dollar, determine what husbandry you use on your animals.