Gluing dog's ears? This made me crazy.

[SS Cressa]

Just for fun...

 

The standard allows any types of ears sets(floppy, semi erect, erect)! It is more of a preference.

 

I love border collies with semi erect/tip ears and dislike how floppy ears look. LOL When I see floppy ears I think weird. I am not saying or suggesting that floppy ears or helicopter ears are below par just not my preference. LOL Maybe I am bias but I think glued ears on puppy are adorable.

 

unglued ears:

 

glued ears:

[esox]

You know that sheep do not respect a dog whose ears do not stand up. LOL

[juliepoudrier]

SS Cressa,

We *all* have our looks preferences, but I wouldn't deliberately change one of *my* dogs to make it look the way I liked (if I did, Phoebe would have two ears that stand up instead of one prick and one "broken"--which is which depends on the time of day). I just think doing so is inane and indicative of how shallow some people can be. It's even more inane when you realize, as you point out, that all types of ears are considered acceptable (at least according to the standard no judge apparently follows). Sorry, I'm not calling you shallow--just saying to whole practice of altering a dog to match some personal aesthestic is shallow. My neighbor has a dog with naturally tipped ears and I think she's cute as hell. But she came that way and she'd still be cute if her ears did something else.

 

How often do we see poor little dogs dyed to match their owner's outfits or interior design and think it's ridiculous? I think altering a dog's looks is just one more manifestation of that ridiculousness. Hey, my red tri is really more orange than red. Maybe I should break out the hair dye and see if I can't make her that perfect shade of mahogany red that I prefer....

 

 

J.

[Sue R]

I love border collies with semi erect/tip ears and dislike how floppy ears look. LOL When I see floppy ears I think weird. I am not saying or suggesting that floppy ears or helicopter ears are below par just not my preference. LOL Maybe I am bias but I think glued ears on puppy are adorable.

Aren't you fortunate that, when you were a child, your parents didn't dislike your ears (or any other body part) enough to glue, splint, shape, or cut it into the position that they thought was "cuter"?

 

The "cutest" appearance is the one that genetics (or God, or however you look at it) gives a pup, not what was sculpted by glue, sticks, strings, or knives. JMO.

[Laurelin]

I see it more of as a to each his own thing. I know some people that die their dog's hair or clip them funny. While I certainly wouldn't do that to my dog, their dogs are well cared for and looked after so it's not really my business. Same with ears and even cropping to an extent (though that one is a much bigger deal than simple taping). If I had a sheltie or bc or any breed like that, I'd not care what their ears did. I thought my girl was adorable with her lopsided ears.

[Shetlander]

just saying to whole practice of altering a dog to match some personal aesthestic is shallow. My neighbor has a dog with naturally tipped ears and I think she's cute as hell. But she came that way and she'd still be cute if her ears did something else.

 

Yeah, well I've never claimed to be especially deep. I'm with Laurelin that this is about personal preference. I'm likely to trim hair around my dogs' feet, for instance. I hate hobbit feet on my dogs. I also trim my dogs here and there. I bathe them more than some people do with their dogs. I bathe them less than others do with their dogs. Is that shallow or a preference? Maybe it's both and I can be two mints in one.

 

Perhaps some of the strong reaction to gluing ears is because it is so indicative of conformation and Border Collies should be bred for working ability rather than anything to do with looks. But just because you mess with a dog's appearance doesn't mean you base their worth on how they look. Well, it could, but it doesn't have to. I prefer the softer expression that tipped ears give Shelties, but my Sheltie whose ears refused to tip was far and away my favorite dog ever. He was also oversized and had the wrong coat, and wrong head for conformation. On top of that he was terribly shy yet I can't imagine loving a dog more or finding one more handsome. All my dogs are absolutely beautiful to me -- including the Bassetweiler I had. It was hard for me to see the odd looking dog others saw because all I noticed were his beautiful wolf eyes, silky ears, and amazing sense of humor.

[SoloRiver]

There is a whole lot about showing that is contrary to its stated purpose, which is to select superior individuals for breeding and assumes that the traits upon which the animals are being judged are genetically mediated and therefore will be passed on to offspring.

 

Aside from ear setting, using massive amounts of grooming aids makes it impossible to judge animals on the basis of natural coat quality. And I've been told (don't know if it's true) that use of aids like mousse, hair spray, and chalk are technically illegal -- but no one enforces the rules, and the use of grooming aids is now so entrenched in the American show ring that no one bats an eye. If you ever got a chance to see Crufts on TV (which will never happen again, I guess) you may have noticed that their dogs looked much more unkempt than American show dogs. The massive amounts of grooming aids, fancy show leads and sequined handler outfits are not "the thing" in the UK like they are here.

 

I personally think that tipped ears (as in the artificially folded in half look you get when taping -- sorry, no dogs' ears naturally look like that) look weird, and that they make no sense in the context of the show ring (shouldn't they be selecting for correct ear set instead?) but I don't see anything particularly wrong with taping or gluing as long as it doesn't hurt the dog. In the interest of full disclosure, Jett had one "terrier ear" for a while as a pup (it folded in half and pointed at the middle of her head -- basically what show breeders make their puppies' ears look like while they are taped/glued) and I was really worried it was going to stay that way, because frankly, it looked stupid. So I stuck moleskin in it for about a week, but it doesn't seem to have done anything, or to have been necessary, because she ended up with identical ears to all her siblings that I've seen -- the right ear (the one I stuck the moleskin in) sticks straight up, and the left ear is an airplane ear. Which I think is perfect, because I LOVE ears that don't match, like these:

 

 

I wasn't trying to make Jett's ear look any way in particular, other than DEAR GOD PLEASE NOT LIKE THAT. I guarantee that I am not the only one this would have occurred to in my shoes, because it looked really odd. Oh well, whatever. Maybe I'm shallow.

 

I've shared this story before, but I'll share it again. I encountered some Barbie Collie folks once while working dogs, and they were highly complimentary of Solo, within their worldview anyway. Solo has nothing but working dogs (and some random farm dogs) in his background, but conformation folks tend to like his looks, as he's rather square, has a lot of bone, no cow hocks, doesn't toe out, has a lot of coat, and could probably (according to some) have finished a show championship, if I were so inclined, if he had testicles, and if he wouldn't eat the judge. The Barbie Collie folks said, "He turned out nice for a working dog." Then paused, and added, "It's a shame about his ears." Because Solo's ears don't match. They opined that if I had set his ears as a pup, he'd be a much better looking dog. I beg to differ:

 

 

By the way, while they were telling me this, their Barbie Collies were totally ignoring the sheep, although they did really enjoy eating sheep poop.

 

I guess to each his or her own.

[stockdogranch]

tipped ears (as in the artificially folded in half look you get when taping -- sorry, no dogs' ears naturally look like that)

 

Actually, my Alli had perfectly "tipped" ears. I often thought how the conformation people would have loved her ears (but certainly not her white body with black head)

 

A

[SoloRiver]

Actually, my Alli had perfectly "tipped" ears.

I demand photos! Are you telling me you didn't offer that bitch up to a conformation program so that they could introduce "the gene for perfectly tipped ears" into their lines? For shame, Anna!

[SS Cressa]

Aren't you fortunate that, when you were a child, your parents didn't dislike your ears (or any other body part) enough to glue, splint, shape, or cut it into the position that they thought was "cuter"?

 

The "cutest" appearance is the one that genetics (or God, or however you look at it) gives a pup, not what was sculpted by glue, sticks, strings, or knives. JMO.

 

I not sure why you are comparing kids to dogs? Since there is a ton of thing we do to our dogs that is illegal or frown on to kids.

- You don't spay or neuter your kids

- I am pretty sure child service would be call if you put a kid into a kennel for 5 hours or left it alone for any period

- LOL It is pretty frown upon to train your kid to go potty outside

- And I not sure but I think it pretty icky if you only bathe your kid 2x a year and NEVER trim their hair.

- or work them for hours on end sheep when they are only 2

- and I think you would get pretty odd looks it you told your friends you train your kid tricks for 15 min a day.

 

Did your mother teach you to put on make up? or How to use acne cream as a teen? Both are merely aesthetic.

[juliepoudrier]

Well, apparently I've been rude and offended a few of you! Liz, I don't count bathing and grooming the same as physically permanently altering a dog's appearance to make it more aesthetically pleasing to a human. Heck, I have Farleigh shaved down twice a year because he mats so badly and is difficult to groom. But I don't have him shaved because I think he looks better that way; rather, I shave him because it's more comfortable for him not to have mats pulliing at his skin, and I don't have to risk being bit trying to get them out.

 

I guess my use of the example of dying dogs to match decor was an unfortunate example (although I do think that's silly). The larger point that seems to have been missed here while everyone takes my comments personally is that it makes no sense to have a judging standard that most dogs of a breed phenotypically *don't match* and then turn around and use artificial means to make the dogs match. I find that practice superficial and shallow and completely pointless, especially if the standard is supposed to be that to which your breeding program should aspire--that is, if you're breeding to a standard then your program should be geared to producing animals that meet the standard out of the womb, not only after being cosmetically altered.

 

Let's see if I can find a better example. Say I want short-eared karakuls. It's a recessive trait, so I can get it by breeding short eared to short eared, but breeders have selected against short ears, so it's hard to find a short-eared ram. I have three short-eared ewes in my flock--two I bought as adults because I liked their fleeces (because yes, I used to prefer the long-eared look too) and one was born here of a short-eared ewe and long-eared ram (whose breeder had never seen any short ears in her flock--sound like how red border collies stayed around even when not being selected for?). Now let's say the fad in the show ring somehow swings to short ears or that ethnic buyers suddenly start to prefer short-eared sheep). Would it make sense to go ahead and breed all my long-eared sheep and then just surgically shorten the ears so they meet the new standard, or should I actually try to find a short-eared ram and do it genetically? (And for those of you who will say that you have to consider other things like health issues in the breed, I get that; karakuls are a rare breed with a limited gene pool. There are all sorts of potential genetic problems lurking because of that tiny gene pool. And there are some genetic issues that could be removed by hard culling, like problem feet, that many breeders might choose to live with for the sake of genetic diversity. But fleece color and ear length don't fall into that category. So the whole "other health issues" thing isn't something I'd use as justification to turn my long-eared karakuls into short-eared ones by using a knife.)

 

P.S. Melanie, when an ears lays over on the head (as in Pip's photo below, or worse) in my experience that usually means it's going to stand up.

 

J.

[SS Cressa]

Maybe I hang with the "bad" crowd too often.

 

My border collies (even the cats) get groom about 1-2x a month (bath, feet trim, ears trim, and nails trim) and the get brushed out daily.

 

I still think it is more of a preference thing... You will never see a red and white or merles in my pack and you will never see any of my border collies with floppy ears whether they stand naturally or I set them.

 

Troy's ears were only set for 2-3 weeks once they stood up by themselves I left them alone.

 

I see no more problem with gluing ears for a look; just like people use make up daily or get their nails done or use cream and lotion for nice skin.

[lrayburn]

I had a doberman in one of my obedience classes who had had multiple surgeries and SEVEN separate attempts at gluing his ears. As an out-of-control, anxiety-ridden two-year-old, his owner asked me if I thought there was any hope that we could FIX his EARS. I told him there were more important things to work on fixing and that if the dog could hear, then his ears were fine.

 

Lisa

[Shetlander]

The larger point that seems to have been missed here while everyone takes my comments personally is that it makes no sense to have a judging standard that most dogs of a breed phenotypically *don't match* and then turn around and use artificial means to make the dogs match. I find that practice superficial and shallow and completely pointless, especially if the standard is supposed to be that to which your breeding program should aspire--that is, if you're breeding to a standard then your program should be geared to producing animals that meet the standard out of the womb, not only after being cosmetically altered.

 

Totally agree with you on that. Shelties are a great example of having a breed standard that is easily missed a number of ways. For example, in addition to their natural ears needing help to get that natural look, they are frequently over- and under-sized based on the 13 - 16 inch standard. And yes, there are tons of tricks and products used by people showing in conformation so that their dogs "conform" better to the standard. Many of those products are technically not allowed but without them, the dog would never win. Then there are the health and temperament issues you see in so many breeds. I can't tell you how often I've heard or read someone express concern about their dog's aggression but when the subject of neutering comes up, they say, "Oh I can't neuter him! I plan to breed him."

 

Anyway, I've never been interested in breeding. I just like tipped ears on Shelties.

 

Her ears didn't actually come out according to the standard but I think she is a pretty girl, anyway.

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

I demand photos! Are you telling me you didn't offer that bitch up to a conformation program so that they could introduce "the gene for perfectly tipped ears" into their lines? For shame, Anna!

 

Ahem. And I have the sire. Lucky you!

 

 

[juliepoudrier]

Oh no, Becca, I think you need to glue those ears so that they tip forward instead of off to the side. For shame, letting them go like that!

 

J.

[SoloRiver]

Yeah, I meant ears that go perfectly forward like this:

 

 

Seriously, no dog has ears that naturally do that. I think Rough Collies would look much cuter with prick ears!

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

What and screw up the genetics? Those potential genes for perfectly taped ears are hard to come by. The cartilage has to be just right to accept tapeage. I knew what you were talking about - the creepy paper-edge fold you get sometimes when you break really stiff ears.

 

Those with breeds that are not Border Collies - I think that's a different deal - yeah, I'm with Melanie and I think natural ears are always cooler. But for a Border collie taping, shaping, weighting, tying, gluing - it's just insane. Then to yammer about how every characteristic is supposed to be in line with its role as a working dog. So not cool.

[Laurelin]

Well, apparently I've been rude and offended a few of you!

 

Oh no, I'm not offended at all. Just offering another take from another breed's perspective. Like I said, I don't really care one way or another if anyone tapes ears to tip them or tries to get them to stand. I don't know that I'd agree with it being shallow, just personal preference.

 

I do love the way a tipped ear looks on a sheltie. I like erect ears on a bc, though. I think Trey would look strange with ears other than his tipped ones, but I'm glad I didn't have to go through all that work to get him there.

 

 

Then again, this was equally as gorgeous to me:

 

 

God, I miss that dog.

 

ETA: Solo, I think those ears are still taped. They look weird to me. THey actually look a lot like Trey's when we first got him and his were still taped. I only have one picture but after we got the tape off, they looked different (as you can see up above)

 

[urge to herd]

I do believe that taping a dog's ears is at the least uncomfortable and quite possibly painful. Cartilage, which is what the ear is composed of, does have a blood supply and nerves. If you've ever fallen asleep with the side of your head resting against something hard, like on a desk, you know it doesn't feel good.

 

So, taping a dog's ears, meant to move back and forth, flatten and stand up, so that they can't flatten back, they can't stand up all the way, is very likely to cause pain.

 

I guess it is a personal thing, but I don't see that a certain 'look' is worth even causing discomfort. The dogs don't have a choice, do they?

 

Ruth

[stockdogranch]

In this picture, you can kinda see 'em...but when she was not working, they were actually just like the Sheltie ears, tipped forward. Here, they're kind of catching some breeze:

 

 

But THESE are some really COOL ears:

 

A

[jdarling]

Ears? What ears?

 

[Sue R]

I not sure why you are comparing kids to dogs? Since there is a ton of thing we do to our dogs that is illegal or frown on to kids.

You are right - I over-reacted because I feel strongly about the working Border Collie and the whole "looks" issue.

 

- You don't spay or neuter your kids

This might not be a bad idea at all for some folks and some kids.

 

- I am pretty sure child service would be call if you put a kid into a kennel for 5 hours or left it alone for any period

Way too many people leave their kids unsupervised way too much as it is. A kennel might be a better alternative to what some kids get involved in.

 

- LOL It is pretty frown upon to train your kid to go potty outside

Actually, there is a movement that believes in training babies (some anti-diaper group or something) and they teach them to go outside.

 

- And I not sure but I think it pretty icky if you only bathe your kid 2x a year and NEVER trim their hair.

You got me on this one. However, I think a lot of our olfactory hygiene preferences are based in our upbringing. What's appealing for some is not necessarily appealing to others, and offensive smells and so forth may be a part of how we are trained, not our actual natures. Maybe. Thank goodness most people stay pretty clean.

 

- or work them for hours on end sheep when they are only 2

That's more the equivalent of 14, and a kid who knew how to work (and I've known several) can put in a bunch of good hours at hard work, and maybe even enjoy it (but maybe not as much as a Border Collie).

 

- and I think you would get pretty odd looks it you told your friends you train your kid tricks for 15 min a day.

Depends on the tricks!

 

Did your mother teach you to put on make up? or How to use acne cream as a teen? Both are merely aesthetic.

Actually, neither. I've never used makeup other than mascara and a little eyeliner. On me, it would probably take quite a bit more for any conceivable level of esthetics.

[PSmitty]

But THESE are some really COOL ears:

 

A

 

Yes, they are! VERY cool.

[juliepoudrier]

Ick, I agree those collies look like their ears are still taped. Either that or the result of a really good taping is tipped ears that roll under (which does indeed look unnatural as Melanie pointed out). I like tipped ears, but I like the natural tips like have been posted of border collies in this thread. I think there's nothing cuter than an ear that stands tall and just tips at the very tip. But I sure wouldn't try to "reorgainize" my dog's ears to look that way. I especially love my Kat's ears--one up and one just barely tipped and not directly to the front but a little to the side. It gives her a jaunty or rakish look that I find adorable. Then again, as adorable as I think it is, I wouldn't try to recreate it in any of my other dogs. There was a time when Lark was around 4-5 months old that her ear tips curled backward. It looked ridiculous. But if that's how they stayed, then that's how they would have been. Ridiculous or not, that would have been the true Lark.

 

Humans tend to justify things they do to animals cosmetically by saying "It doesn't hurt them, so what does it hurt?" Like Ruth said, I think it's quite possible that taping and gluing at least cause discomfort--just like matted hair pulls the skin (and hurts), I imagine ear tips glued to skin pulls and hurts too.

 

I just don't get the whole "preference" thing I guess. If my preferences were that important to me, I'd find a young adult with all the characteristics/preferences I wanted rather than changing the dog I had. It's quite clear to anyone who knows me that I *prefer* smooth-coated prick-eared dogs. Those who know me heard me whine when the only two bitches in the only litter Twist will ever have were both rought coats (and you really can't tell for sure with ears at the age pups are going to their new homes). By the reasoning that it's okay to alter my own dog to suit my preferences I should shave Phoebe so she's a smooth coat, and I should have done something about that da*n ear that stands sometimes but mostly airplanes out to the side. I just don't get that attitude. And as a couple others have pointed out, doing such things to border collies is somewhat hypocritical since at least the working dog folks have based our entire anti-AKC stance on the premis that "looks don't matter; ability does."

 

J.