BorderCollieSam Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 Correct me if I am reading this wrong...you take a 15 week old pup out for 6 to 8 miles "everday" and "bike" him in the evening? Please, tell me I am misunderstanding what you wrote! Hi Journey, that is correct. Its 06:56 over here in the UK and i've just got back from our morning walk, i was up and out of the door with him at 05:30 and we have done approximately 6 miles this morning, all green fields/farmers fields/dirt walking. He absolutely loves going out, and is licking my cheeks (and lips when he can get there ) from 5 in the morning onwards until he gets me up out of bed. In the evening i 'sometimes' take him out on the bike, the last time was on Saturday evening, we must have done again about 6 miles but on another route, and he also went out that Saturday morning on the same route as we've just come back from this morning. Yesterday was no bike, however we did the same route i've just done this morning yesterday morning and yesterday evening. The bike thing isn't tieing him to the back or anything he just walks briskly alongside me, and then now and again we'll have a race and he'll really stretch himself out in long strides to try and out run me. Last night he was very relaxed, he sat on the couch with me after our walk and cuddled up and went to sleep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellabellar Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 Question for you, how did you expect this puppy to behaive? And when this puppy deviated from the expectation what did you do about it? Also, are you expecting to much thinking that the puppy will behaive within your expectations without guidence? To have a dog is to be a dog trainer, just like to have children is to be a parent, you can't decide to train only when convienent much the same as you can't parent only when it convienent. I'm not trying to be tough or mean, just trying to get you to think a little bit about your situation. Deb agreed. puppies, border collie's or not need guidence.. they need training and her being only 13wks she is not gonna behave just like that, all puppies muck up from time to time, its just a part of them being young, you just have to show them right from wrong. a puppy crate is a great idea, when she's bad, such as the nipping, put her in there. but you have to give her time, when you teach childen, they're not gonna learn just like that, it takes time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack & Co. Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 BorderCollieSam,Just a word of caution: a 6-8 mile run/walk is an awful lot to ask of a 4-month-old whose joints are still growing. Add on to that a bike ride (how far and how fast?) in the evenings, and you may well be overdoing it. At the least I think you might want to consult your vet before doing that much activity with that young a dog. Too much stress on young bones and joints at this age could come back to haunt you, maybe sooner, maybe later. Sorry for the hijack, but I'd hate to see you inadvertently injure your puppy. J. BorderCollieSam, Journey and Julie are trying to point out that that is a lot of exercise for such a young pup. Of course he enjoys it because he loves being with you, but as Julie mentions, that is a lot of stress on growing bones and joints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shetlander Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 BorderCollieSam, Journey and Julie are trying to point out that that is a lot of exercise for such a young pup. Of course he enjoys it because he loves being with you, but as Julie mentions, that is a lot of stress on growing bones and joints. Adding to the detour from the thread (though I have my doubts the OP is still reading ), I want to support the argument that Sam is way too young for extended, strenuous exercise. I'm sure he is very relaxed and mellow after a long run, but you may be causing all kinds of problems and pain for your buddy down the line. Please reconsider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freeman 101 Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 " Hi Journey, that is correct. Its 06:56 over here in the UK and i've just got back from our morning walk, i was up and out of the door with him at 05:30 and we have done approximately 6 miles this morning, all green fields/farmers fields/dirt walking. He absolutely loves going out, and is licking my cheeks (and lips when he can get there ) from 5 in the morning onwards until he gets me up out of bed." -------------------- Hi. So what's going to happen if for some reason you are no longer able to keep up with this exercise routine? You are creating a super athlete. I'm not trying to be confrontational, I'm just curious. I think it's great you exercise your dog, because so many people do not. What I do fear is that people will get the impression that they cannot own a Border collie unless they are able to keep up this type of exercise routine. From my experience, my Border collie has easily picked up on this down-time routine. I just have never allowed rowdy indoor behavior. I have fibromyalgia and I could never exercise to this extent. On a normal day we walk 20-30 minutes, 1-2 time/day. I'm really not able to jog, so I walk at a medium pace. Ocassionally there are days we can't do this. I also do agility training daily which also includes ball tossing. My 3 dogs also go in the backyard several times per day to have free play. My Border collie didn't seem to have a shut-off button for exercise (maybe he does, but I never found it!), so instead I had to create a reasonable routine that was doable for me and he had to learn to live with this. IMO, dogs can learn to have down time without that extent of exercise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BorderCollieSam Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 Hi Guys and Girls, No disrespect, but Sam is a VERY energetic dog and if you read my first post on these forums you will see that i got him from a farm in North Wales and both his parents were working dogs (they worked sheep and cows) and although i've had energetic Border Collies in the past, Sams parents were the most energetic dogs i have ever ever seen. They were sprinting like greyhounds full out stretching with every stride up these hills in North Wales that were so steep you would have a hard job trying to walk up! I really couldn't believe what i was seeing. And because they are smooth coated/short haired working dogs, they looked (to me) under weight compared with the collies i've owned in the past, but as i clapped Sams dad on his side it was like clapping a Race Horse, solid muscle..... I don't want Sam to feel restricted like a bird in a shoebox, i don't want him to be a dog that sits and sleeps around my feet every night whilst i'm watching TV, i want him to run free and live his life to the full and whatever stimulation he needs whether that is excercise or mental stimulation i want to provide it for him. I don't think there is anything more rewarding than to see him running free and coming back home at the end of our walk/bike ride/training session or whatever and feeling like he's really been working, he comes back home and lays down and look so content. Sunday morning i took my daughters out with me and we were out for 3 hours, however we were not on bikes and were walking..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 BCSam, The difference is that his parents were adults doing their jobs. I'm sure they weren't working like that at 4 or 5 months old. If you love seeing Sam run free, consider that overdoing it now could cause crippling problems later that would completely prevent from doing much of anything. A 3-hour rambling walk is fine--the pup can rest, stop, fiddle, whatever. But taking a youngster on long runs and bike rides is taking a huge risk with his health. I'm not asking you to believe me--do some research on the Internet and talk to your vet. There's a reason racehorses break down so often (because of stress to joints that aren't quite ready for that stress), and there's a reason most people don't seriously start training their dogs in sports or on stock until they're at least a year old. And those reasons have in large part to do with the physical capabilities of young animals. Of course he's going to keep going if you keep going, but that doesn't mean you aren't harming him inadvertently. J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenajo Posted March 24, 2009 Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 Your pup may be fine with this now, but the damage to his young joints will be paid for later. The farmer you bought him from no doubt has his pups shut up in a barn or yard at this age. He certainly isn't working them. Try training instead of running his legs off. It's far more productive in the long run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Posted March 25, 2009 Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 I'm not asking you to believe me--do some research on the Internet and talk to your vet. Here BCSam, I'll get you started. The main concern is that a puppy can injure the growth plates at the ends of the long bones through excessive impact or repetitive motion. From Running Safely With Your Dog (written by a vet): Although all pups love to run and play, do not plan any kind of regular running with your dog until their bones are mature enough to handle it. "The growth plates of the long bones in dogs' legs close on average between 8 and 14 months of age. As a rule, the large and giant breeds of dogs have later growth plate 'closures' than the smaller breeds," says Dr. Linda Homco, a Central New York veterinary radiologist. "Growth plates are susceptible to injury and are the weakest part of the long bones in puppies. Damage to them can result in a deformity and even stoppage of growth of the affected bone. In particular, the growth plate of the ulna (one of the bones of the front limb) has a unique shape that makes it very susceptible to compaction injuries, which results in premature closure and sometime a severe limb deformity," she says. Because of these dangers, veterinarians generally do not recommend any kind of distance running with your dogs until they are at least 1½ years old, or even later with the giant breeds. If you google something like "puppy growth plate fracture", you will be able to read stories by sad people who either did not know of or heed the advice above. Want to see what growth plates look like and how they can be fractured? Here is a vet site with illustrations. Some people say that a good rule of thumb is that activities the puppy initiates (running around, wrestling) are probably okay, but until the growth plates close, you, the responsible dog owner, should avoid being the instigator of activities that could injure them (e.g. setting off on a long or fast run or bike ride, where the puppy will naturally want to follow). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BustopherJones Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 The main concern is that a puppy can injure the growth plates at the ends of the long bones through excessive impact or repetitive motion. mea culpa, mea culpa, mea culpa maxima... I am ashamed to admit this, but if my mistake will help guide others, then my personal embarrassment is worth it. We had never owned a Border Collie before Annie. When we did get Annie, we presumed (erroneously) that her constant "go-go-go" drive meant that we needed to exercise her until she got tired. We overdid it, and Annie suffered a growth plate separation in her shoulder. It tooks weeks of special limited exercise regimens and aquatic therapy (the latter on an underwater treadmill, which proved quite costly) before she recovered. Fortunately, there was no permanent damage; but there very well could have been lifelong consequences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debbie Meier Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 mea culpa, mea culpa, mea culpa maxima... I am ashamed to admit this, but if my mistake will help guide others, then my personal embarrassment is worth it. We had never owned a Border Collie before Annie. When we did get Annie, we presumed (erroneously) that her constant "go-go-go" drive meant that we needed to exercise her until she got tired. We overdid it, and Annie suffered a growth plate separation in her shoulder. It tooks weeks of special limited exercise regimens and aquatic therapy (the latter on an underwater treadmill, which proved quite costly) before she recovered. Fortunately, there was no permanent damage; but there very well could have been lifelong consequences. That is nothing be ashamed of, I applaud you for standing up to say it happened to me, not just it could happen. I think that's the tough part, we all think that people are being over protective, and vary rarely are people willing to step up and say, no, it does happen. Deb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maralynn Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 I don't want Sam to feel restricted like a bird in a shoebox, i don't want him to be a dog that sits and sleeps around my feet every night whilst i'm watching TV, i want him to run free and live his life to the full and whatever stimulation he needs whether that is excercise or mental stimulation i want to provide it for him. That's all well and good until you have a BC who is in his prime and wants to run and play but can't because of joint damage. I have a 10 y/o dog who can still run, jump and play with ease. Watching her move you'd guess that she was no older than 6 or 7. I would much rather limit a pup in their activities and protect those joints a bit to so I can have a senior dog who still has the ability to run, play and work just as well as those dogs who are half her age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurae Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 Whatever—it's your dog. We all feel bad for your dog, as being a responsible owner means putting your dog's best interest ahead of your own and you can't be bothered to learn how to do that, but just like with the bunny situation, none of us can do anything about it. You seem set to find out the hard way, and if that happens your pup will pay the price. I guess you're a gambling man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afrancis Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 Guys, This is being more recently and comprehensively discussed on this newer thread called 'Exercising a Puppy': http://www.bordercollie.org/boards/index.php?showtopic=23487 I don't think the OP of this thread is reading this one anymore. I believe BCS has been convinced that less distance is better for young Sam's bones and joints. At least I hope he is . Ailsa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnewe2 Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 just to add to this discussion, My oldest girl suffers now from just that sort of thing. I knew nothing of growth plates or anything else about raising a pup when I got her. needless to say I did some of the same things with letting her run to much on hard surfaces even rollerblading with her before she was even 1. BIG MISTAKE. She is long retired and enjoying her old age, but unlike Maralyn's senior, Jazz shows every bit of her 13 years of age and then some. Somedays she can hardly get up the steps or stand up from laying down. When she comes in from the cold she marches like a stiff legged soldier. I feel so sorry for her and so sad that I added to her old age suffering. BCSam, you don't have to admit anything, or say anything to anyone to defend your actions, but I do hope that you will heed the warnings of those that have done the same thing and are paying the price now that their dogs are oldest to show such actions. climbing off my soapbox potty now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eileen Stein Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 I've deleted several posts on the "puppy exercise" detour, but only the ones that had no substantive content at all. Since the original topic of this thread seems to be exhausted, and a new thread has been started on puppy exercise, I am closing this thread now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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