Displacement Behaviors?

[Tommy Coyote]

How am I supposed to handle displacement behavior?

 

Tommy is just 7 months. She is really intense about everything and tends to be obsessive about stuff.

 

When she discovered squirrels she developed a path around the back yard that checked out ev ery squirrel siting. It also included checking with both neighbor yards for the 2 labs on one side and the boxer on the other. Then she would just run that path over and over and over.

 

Then she discovered that if she sits and looks out the window that she can see things. Now when she comes in she makes a beeline for the window, jumps up on the bed and sits and looks out. She is very intense about looking outside.

 

Then yesterday she started a new thing. If she is sitting on the back step and I come outside she runs out and then stops and freezes and starts looking intently for stuff on the ground. Then she moves over a few feet, stops and stares again, then movers over another few feet and does it again.

 

She is out of two trial dogs so it is not a big surprise that she is intense - probably to a fault. Do I just try and break up that behavior? Any ideas?

[Lenajo]

She needs you to provide her with some structure - including limits on her behavior *right now*. She needs mental and physically challanging activies that encourage her to think and act in a sensible fashion.

 

This is not "trial genetics" - this is an intelligent young dog who is bored, bored, bored. And if you let her keep at it she will be nuts, nuts, nuts! Right now you have a chance to intervene. Much longer and these obsesive behaviors will only be moderatable with medication.

 

And if it's been considered, let me says it now. A dog like this should never see the first flash of a lazer pointer or any other light chasing game. That would be an ocd for her from the first flicker!

[JohnLloydJones]

A dog like this should never see the first flash of a lazer pointer or any other light chasing game. That would be an ocd for her from the first flicker!

 

Oddly enough that didn't apply to Senneca. First, let me say that I have never had a laser pointer; this happened in the dog park where a young girl was using it for her Basenji, Astro (who we have known since he was a pup). Senneca joined in the chase for a while, but suddenly stopped with a "they're messing with me" look. Since then she ignores light spots.

[Tommy Coyote]

She needs you to provide her with some structure - including limits on her behavior *right now*. She needs mental and physically challanging activies that encourage her to think and act in a sensible fashion.

 

This is not "trial genetics" - this is an intelligent young dog who is bored, bored, bored. And if you let her keep at it she will be nuts, nuts, nuts! Right now you have a chance to intervene. Much longer and these obsesive behaviors will only be moderatable with medication.

 

And if it's been considered, let me says it now. A dog like this should never see the first flash of a lazer pointer or any other light chasing game. That would be an ocd for her from the first flicker!

Point well taken. Actually, she is home with me a lot so she is not by herself all day. And she loves to play with the older dog. And I have been letting her just go outside to play in the afternoon so she gets enough exercise. But she is so sweet natured and soft that it is very easy just to let her do her own thing. I need to get out there and do everything with her.

 

We are working on her everyday manners three times a day - just here and down and sit and stay. I will start picking up those sessions so they last longer. And start making her deal with me and behave when I'm there instead of just kind of doing her own thing.

 

Thanks - that's great advice. Will be working on it.

 

Mary

[Tommy Coyote]

Oddly enough that didn't apply to Senneca. First, let me say that I have never had a laser pointer; this happened in the dog park where a young girl was using it for her Basenji, Astro (who we have known since he was a pup). Senneca joined in the chase for a while, but suddenly stopped with a "they're messing with me" look. Since then she ignores light spots.

I have to watch the light reflections on the wall - she takes off after them. And help us if there is a fly in the room.

 

I never watch TV so she hasn't see it. But yesterday I turned it on for a few minutes and she thought strange people were in the room and started barking.

 

She is just ultrasensitive to stuff. But I need to give her more structure. And that I can do.

[urge to herd]

Mary, you could also throw in some training just about every time you see her. Call her away from playing, give her a pat or an ear scratch and then release. Do that a couple times every time you go outside with her.

 

Teach her to go to a certain place and be still. Some people use a mat, or old towel on the floor, or the dog's bed in a corner. Start with a down, step away for a second, return, reinforce, let her go. Gradually increase the time you're away and the distance you go, until you can go out of sight for a minute or so. If she doesn't get it, try increasing only the time OR the distance, don't do both at once.

 

Trick training is great for keeping them engaged with you and wearing out little minds. Search the boards for trick training for ideas.

 

Every time you interact with her, giving her her meals, taking her outside, wiping her paws, training is going on - use all this. Teach her to love your touch as you pick up her paws and look in her ears. Give her brief massages as she lays quietly on her bed.

 

There's just a ton of things you can do informally and pretty much all the time. My two girls are 14 and around 13, and I'm still doing little fun sessions with them throughout the day, because they love the interaction and need it.

 

Ruth

[Tommy Coyote]

Mary, you could also throw in some training just about every time you see her. Call her away from playing, give her a pat or an ear scratch and then release. Do that a couple times every time you go outside with her.

 

Teach her to go to a certain place and be still. Some people use a mat, or old towel on the floor, or the dog's bed in a corner. Start with a down, step away for a second, return, reinforce, let her go. Gradually increase the time you're away and the distance you go, until you can go out of sight for a minute or so. If she doesn't get it, try increasing only the time OR the distance, don't do both at once.

 

Trick training is great for keeping them engaged with you and wearing out little minds. Search the boards for trick training for ideas.

 

Every time you interact with her, giving her her meals, taking her outside, wiping her paws, training is going on - use all this. Teach her to love your touch as you pick up her paws and look in her ears. Give her brief massages as she lays quietly on her bed.

 

There's just a ton of things you can do informally and pretty much all the time. My two girls are 14 and around 13, and I'm still doing little fun sessions with them throughout the day, because they love the interaction and need it.

 

Ruth

Thanks for the ideas. I do spend a lot of time with her. And I pet her and play with her but I need to give her more structured time. And those are good ideas. Thank goodness the weather is finally better. Now we can get out more and I can do a lot more with her.

 

I am trying to get her to come back to me when she is outside. I have to leave a leash on her because I can't catch her. As soon as she sees me she is off to play and she won't come back. So we are working on that one big time. And it is getthing better.

 

You know there is a book called 101 dog tricks. I thought about getting that and seeing if she could learn all 101. That would be something we could work on.

 

She really is a smart little thing. And just unbelievably cute. I just couldn't have gotten a cuter dog.

[juliepoudrier]

Mary,

One oft-repeated mantra here is that if you leave a border collie to its own devices it will find ways to entertain itself, and usually it will be by doing something you don't like. And it sounds as if in Tommy's case, she's found some obsessive behaviors to entertain herself.

 

In addition to working on manners, try trick training or other things like that which make her use her mind and will tire her out more quickly. You don't want to let her run tracks in the yard. Trust me on this. I got an 18-month old rescue who obsessively circles (not spins, but actually runs big circles--I call him the self-lunging dog). Anyway, his story, which I've told here before, but it bears repeating, is that his elderly owner died of cancer. The owner's wife didn't know what to do with this young dog, so she left him in the yard, where he started circling obsessively. She very naively told me that he "likes to show me how he can run and run when I bring him his food." She had absolutely no idea that by leaving him unattended (pretty much totally ignored in this case) that she had created a problem in this dog that I live with to this day. He turned 10 in December. Everywhere we've lived, he creates tracks from his running. At one place I used to joke that we had the Olympic Rings going, because that what his overlapping "racetracks" looked like. I tried to break him of the habit for some time after I got him--through behavior modification and later with the help of meds. Nothing worked. I finally decided that I could live with it, but I wish he had never gotten the habit in the first place because it really is a *compulsion* for him now, and he will pretty much run those circles the whole time he is outside. In fact, he'll even do it in the house if something exciting is going on (like I'm fixing their food). This all stemmed from boredom. Before I got Farleigh he also had surgery for a lick granuloma--his obsessive behavior also spilled over into obsessive licking. I've been able to control that better than the circling, but the main point is that it's better not to let stuff like that start than to have to try to stop it later, which may be next to impossible.

 

Do more training, and perhaps get out with her and let her fetch a ball (something like a Holee Roller--a big honeycomb shaped ball that's easy to pick up without the dog plowing its face into the ground). Maybe even set up a homemade agility course in your back yard, or teach her hide and seek with toys, etc. She needs both mental and physical exercise. And she needs most of all to interact with you. These dogs have been bred for ages to work in partnership with a shepherd and consequently they really want to be, work with, and interact with their human partner, not just hang out in the yard and find (un)amusing ways to entertain themselves.

 

Sorry to sound like I'm lecturing, but Farleigh has been one of my biggest frustrations when it comes to his obsessive behavior and I'd like to spare others the same problem.

 

John,

I expect Senecca is one of those famous exceptions to the rule.

 

J.

[JohnLloydJones]

I expect Senecca is one of those famous exceptions to the rule.

 

Each new BC I meet seems to confirm my suspicion that they are all oddballs. For all their common characteristics, their quirks (or personality) make it hard to use the word "normal" about a border collie.

[urge to herd]

I am trying to get her to come back to me when she is outside. I have to leave a leash on her because I can't catch her. As soon as she sees me she is off to play and she won't come back. So we are working on that one big time. And it is getthing better.

 

You know there is a book called 101 dog tricks. I thought about getting that and seeing if she could learn all 101. That would be something we could work on.

 

If you haven't already, start with the coming-when-called inside. When that's really, really good, take it outside. In the meantime, don't call and then let her run around. If you need her to come in, go and get her. Every time she runs off when you call, she's reinforcing that she doesn't need to listen to you.

 

Work her on a long line out in the yard, without the other dog present, when you've got the inside cue down. Cue, tug gently on line, reinforce when she comes, (treat, head scratch, praise, whatever you use to tell her that "YES!!! You're the best dog ever when you come to me when I call you!!!) let her go and wander a bit, then repeat. There's lots of nuance here - you can cue when she's already walking towards you, you can cue and release her repeatedly to go back to sniffing, etc. Don't make a habit of only calling her when you want her to come in. She'll quickly equate 'come' with 'the fun's over' and refuse. That's why it's so important to play come and release several times a day.

 

Trick training saved our sanity. When we got Samantha, the first winter it rained something like 90 days out of a hundred. I got a book called Idiot's Guide to Fun and Games with your Dog and it was a real live saver. Sami loved it, and I was ever so grateful.

 

Good luck!

 

Ruth

[Root Beer]

One thing to keep in mind in these situations is that even if you attempt to disallow her from looking at or interacting with the things she gets fixated on, she will still know they are there and will continue to obsess over them. And, based on what you have said, there is a good chance that she will simply start to fixate on other things.

 

Structure is important and keeping her mentally stimulated is important, but if she has a tendency to fixate, at some point you are probably going to need to teach her new ways to mentally process the things that she becomes fixated by. Those things are realities that aren't going to go away.

[Tommy Coyote]

Mary,

One oft-repeated mantra here is that if you leave a border collie to its own devices it will find ways to entertain itself, and usually it will be by doing something you don't like. And it sounds as if in Tommy's case, she's found some obsessive behaviors to entertain herself.

 

In addition to working on manners, try trick training or other things like that which make her use her mind and will tire her out more quickly. You don't want to let her run tracks in the yard. Trust me on this. I got an 18-month old rescue who obsessively circles (not spins, but actually runs big circles--I call him the self-lunging dog). Anyway, his story, which I've told here before, but it bears repeating, is that his elderly owner died of cancer. The owner's wife didn't know what to do with this young dog, so she left him in the yard, where he started circling obsessively. She very naively told me that he "likes to show me how he can run and run when I bring him his food." She had absolutely no idea that by leaving him unattended (pretty much totally ignored in this case) that she had created a problem in this dog that I live with to this day. He turned 10 in December. Everywhere we've lived, he creates tracks from his running. At one place I used to joke that we had the Olympic Rings going, because that what his overlapping "racetracks" looked like. I tried to break him of the habit for some time after I got him--through behavior modification and later with the help of meds. Nothing worked. I finally decided that I could live with it, but I wish he had never gotten the habit in the first place because it really is a *compulsion* for him now, and he will pretty much run those circles the whole time he is outside. In fact, he'll even do it in the house if something exciting is going on (like I'm fixing their food). This all stemmed from boredom. Before I got Farleigh he also had surgery for a lick granuloma--his obsessive behavior also spilled over into obsessive licking. I've been able to control that better than the circling, but the main point is that it's better not to let stuff like that start than to have to try to stop it later, which may be next to impossible.

 

Do more training, and perhaps get out with her and let her fetch a ball (something like a Holee Roller--a big honeycomb shaped ball that's easy to pick up without the dog plowing its face into the ground). Maybe even set up a homemade agility course in your back yard, or teach her hide and seek with toys, etc. She needs both mental and physical exercise. And she needs most of all to interact with you. These dogs have been bred for ages to work in partnership with a shepherd and consequently they really want to be, work with, and interact with their human partner, not just hang out in the yard and find (un)amusing ways to entertain themselves.

 

Sorry to sound like I'm lecturing, but Farleigh has been one of my biggest frustrations when it comes to his obsessive behavior and I'd like to spare others the same problem.

 

John,

I expect Senecca is one of those famous exceptions to the rule.

 

J.

No, no. Lecture on. I am just such a laid back person that I was just not paying enough attention. She is just out with Ellie and me when I am home. And I let her outside to play with her soccer ball and try t keep her energy level under control. But I need to do more with her everyday.

 

I took her out on her long line this morning and we worked on come and sit and stay. She just learns stuff so fast. Then I played soccer with her for quite a while so she got her exercise. I can't leave her line on when we play soccer. I'm too afraid of her getting wound up in the leash and breaking a leg.

 

I wonder if I just mainly keep the long line on her all the time outside for a while if that would help. That way I will always have control of her.

 

And I will work with more in the house. My house is just tiny so its kind of hard to do much in the house.

[Tommy Coyote]

One thing to keep in mind in these situations is that even if you attempt to disallow her from looking at or interacting with the things she gets fixated on, she will still know they are there and will continue to obsess over them. And, based on what you have said, there is a good chance that she will simply start to fixate on other things.

 

Structure is important and keeping her mentally stimulated is important, but if she has a tendency to fixate, at some point you are probably going to need to teach her new ways to mentally process the things that she becomes fixated by. Those things are realities that aren't going to go away.

Could you give me some examples?

[Root Beer]

Could you give me some examples?

 

One example would be to teach her what you want her to do when she looks out the window. Unless you want to be constantly redirecting your dog or living with shades down, she needs to learn what do to when she looks out the window. The windows are always going to be there.

 

The approach that I would take would be a combination of two techniques from the book, Control Unleashed (Leslie McDevitt) - "Look at That" and "Gimme a Break". "Look at That" teaches the dog to look at things that they find distracting, stressful, an object of obsession, etc., mentally process them as "no big deal" and then move on with life. "Gimme a Break" is a game where you actually use what the dog wants to do to teach the dog to do what you want to do. So, you could incorporate allowing her to look out the window for a short period of time as part of that game as you teach her to come into the room and walk past the window or something.

 

I can't really get into how to teach these games without breaking copyright laws, but the overriding idea is that the things in the world that your dog fixates on are always going to be there and these types of techniques can help the dog learn to mentally process them and move on instead of fixating on them, without putting you in a position where you will have to micromanage the dog forever. It's very liberating and pretty amazing to watch work.

 

I do want to make one disclaimer here - I am taking for granted that the dog does not have an obsessive complusive disorder, but simply has a very strong tendency to fixate.