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Hi Carol, I hope you have an opinion and some ideas for this. I now have access to 7 sheep and they are kept in two adjacent corrals about 40 yards square each with a gate in the center. I'm excited about being able to take the dogs around sheep every day so they can "not work" as well as work. The sheep are fed and shedded (is that a word?) at each SE corner where they like to run to. I have a young dog (just 3) who is nice to sheep but wants to run deep to the pressure zone - so many times he won't stop until he's there. I'm looking for exercises which will improve his confidence but not make his problems any worse (that's pretty easy for me to do!) I don't want to sour dog nor sheep. Yesterday I put away the three old cantankerous ones and put two in one side and two in the other so they wanted to join at the gate and then sent the dog so he had to push two away from his buds to me (and toward where they usually want to run). That seemed to be working and he was showing me a lot of good stuff.

 

I also have a 6 year old who is extremely pressure sensitive (to sheep, not humans) and tends to blow in close spaces. His mode in such spaces is to go into "circle zone" because he puts so much danger alert into the sheep by his intensity they aren't calm so he is constantly moving and won't down. He's been working nicely when I can get him out into the open with a big flock but that is not very often. I'd like to find some "calming" exercises I can do there so he can relax.

 

I'm hoping you have some things to try. Thanks

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Guest carol campion
Hi Carol, I hope you have an opinion and some ideas for this. I now have access to 7 sheep and they are kept in two adjacent corrals about 40 yards square each with a gate in the center. I'm excited about being able to take the dogs around sheep every day so they can "not work" as well as work. The sheep are fed and shedded (is that a word?) at each SE corner where they like to run to. I have a young dog (just 3) who is nice to sheep but wants to run deep to the pressure zone - so many times he won't stop until he's there. I'm looking for exercises which will improve his confidence but not make his problems any worse (that's pretty easy for me to do!) I don't want to sour dog nor sheep. Yesterday I put away the three old cantankerous ones and put two in one side and two in the other so they wanted to join at the gate and then sent the dog so he had to push two away from his buds to me (and toward where they usually want to run). That seemed to be working and he was showing me a lot of good stuff.

 

I also have a 6 year old who is extremely pressure sensitive (to sheep, not humans) and tends to blow in close spaces. His mode in such spaces is to go into "circle zone" because he puts so much danger alert into the sheep by his intensity they aren't calm so he is constantly moving and won't down. He's been working nicely when I can get him out into the open with a big flock but that is not very often. I'd like to find some "calming" exercises I can do there so he can relax.

 

I'm hoping you have some things to try. Thanks

 

I like the sound of the one exercise you describe. That way not only the pressure of the pen set up itself, but the separation of the sheep make the dogs work harder.

 

Another helpful one for the 6 year old is to use the fence or a corner to get the dog used to being in the corner or tightest spot himself. It would be similar to what I wrote in the first "expert" question. Get between the sheep and the dog and work on getting him to flank around and eventually stop between the sheep and the fence. A lot of dogs buzz through there at warp speed because it is so uncomfortable to them to be in there. Does this dog know its off balance flanks? If not, a good place to teach them.

 

With the sheep at the fence and the dog in the open, get in between the dog & the sheep and work flanking the dog in one direction stopping it at intervals on its way. Picturing this as a half moon shape along the fence (or on the face of a clock—9:00 to 3:00 with 6:00 at the fence itself) you will notice that it is happy to flank to about 10 or to 2, but going to 9 or 3 is hard. Work towards getting it to go all the way to 9 or 3 on one flank. Initially, you may have to step out to one side or another to help it get there, but it will help the dog learn to let go of the balance point—essential in really learning what a flank is. You may find it wants to go so far and then flip back to what it feels is losing its control. You may have to stop it at those flipping back points to help it mentally release its idea it has to hold onto the balance point—and then flank it on to the point you want it to get to. Work towards not stepping out to help it

 

Once you can get it to 9 or 3 in the open, stop it at those points and then continue to flank it on around. At first it will probably want to buzz through. If you have worked at asking it to stop in uncomfortable places in the half moon, it will start relaxing at 9 or 3. Ask it to flank to 9 or 3, stop it there and then flank it on. Once you start asking it to keep flanking on, you grow into flanking to 4 and at 8 with the goal being to get it eventually comfortable stopping at 6—directly between the sheep and the fence. At first it may have to go from 9 along the fence to 3 because it is uncomfortable stopping anywhere in between, but work towards stopping it anywhere on the fence side from 3 to 9.

 

That's when it will learn it can do it without exploding. And the whole time your goal should be to firstly have the dog take the flanks, but then to do it calmly giving the dog a chance to think through each flank move. Let it get comfortable stopping in all those uncomfortable places and as it does, it will see that flanking in increments helps the sheep move calmly off the fence. It keeps the sheep from exploding which in turn keeps the dog more relaxed and builds confidence.

 

Next you can work on doing all this with you on the fence side with the sheep between you and the dog-another level of difficulty.

 

When the dog can accomplish these, start moving yourself and the dog a bit farther from the fence so you are not there to help it. Repeat the flanks in increments to take the sheep off the fence. When you can send him around and stop him at 6:00 without any tension, start adding a little fetch from that point.

 

Once that level is accomplished, with you in the open, you can flank the dog to 6 (between sheep and fence) and then flank the dog on around to 12 (your side). Once there, let the dog push the sheep back to the fence intentionally asking the dog to hold the sheep to the fence. Then try the exercises again from that set up. Asking the dog to let go of his hold on the sheep from there is a great exercise. Many will want to bust in. The dynamic here is to put the dog smack in a situation where it has a strong hold on the sheep and then ask it to give it up through flanks.

 

At all times, do not get excited or angry if you encounter problems. Just assume the dog doesn't know and walk it through them. Take time with each step gradually increasing the difficulty and lessen your need to help.

 

Additionally, you can move this whole exercise to different spots in the paddock each day. Depending on what sheep you leave where, the draw of the sheep will alter the dynamic considerably making the levels of difficulty change dependent on where in the paddock you are.

 

Make sure on these that not only are you wanting the dog to take the flanks, but you are looking to make sure the flanks are clean and the dog turns out-not going to wide. You are not trying to make it wide, just bend out so it doesn't knock the sheep on any flank.

 

This will help you when penning sheep and when setting up a shed where you need lateral moves and a blend of balance and obedience.

 

Take this series of exercises to the corners as well. A different dynamic there too.

 

Another: If your dogs are driving, then to try to drive around the perimeter of one paddock varying the draw by where and if you keep sheep in the other paddock would be fun. Or driving the perimeter of one first keeping the gate open—not allowing the sheep to go through the gate till you have hugged the entire perimeter of one paddock—to and through the gate and the turn and drive the perimeter of the other paddock back around to the middle gate. That drive would be a challenge. You would need good flanks & stops and calm at the fence. The pressure would change dramatically as you drove along the perimeter.

 

If you do a lot of driving and small exercses, try to send the dogs on the gathers to maintain that too. Don't have it all be "do this & do that!"

 

If you can open the outside of the paddocks so the dog could gather around the outside of the paddock and fetch through the open gate between the two—that could be fun.

 

Let me know how they work. They should be fun.

 

Carol

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With the sheep at the fence and the dog in the open, get in between the dog & the sheep and work flanking the dog in one direction stopping it at intervals on its way. Picturing this as a half moon shape along the fence (or on the face of a clock—9:00 to 3:00 with 6:00 at the fence itself) you will notice that it is happy to flank to about 10 or to 2, but going to 9 or 3 is hard. Work towards getting it to go all the way to 9 or 3 on one flank. Initially, you may have to step out to one side or another to help it get there, but it will help the dog learn to let go of the balance point—essential in really learning what a flank is. You may find it wants to go so far and then flip back to what it feels is losing its control. You may have to stop it at those flipping back points to help it mentally release its idea it has to hold onto the balance point—and then flank it on to the point you want it to get to. Work towards not stepping out to help it

 

Having him work into the corners is a good idea. I've never had success with trying to flank along a fence because the sheep never stay put. Earl (that's his name) is intense and will pull up sheep heads from a great distance where they wouldn't much notice another dog. So, if he moves, they move which sets up this constant motion machine. I will try to start from 6 to 9 (in a corner) and see if I can get him to stop without blowing past me into the corner. I'll let you know.

 

Driving the perimeters will be interesting.

 

Is it a bad idea to send the young dog THRU the center gate to gather the sheep? He has a natural wide outrun, I tried this today and he really had to think to go thru and then get around the sheep and bring them thru the gate. He's at a really good age where he is trying to work for me.

 

Thanks for you help. Nancy

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Guest carol campion
Having him work into the corners is a good idea. I've never had success with trying to flank along a fence because the sheep never stay put. Earl (that's his name) is intense and will pull up sheep heads from a great distance where they wouldn't much notice another dog. So, if he moves, they move which sets up this constant motion machine. I will try to start from 6 to 9 (in a corner) and see if I can get him to stop without blowing past me into the corner. I'll let you know.

 

Driving the perimeters will be interesting.

 

Is it a bad idea to send the young dog THRU the center gate to gather the sheep? He has a natural wide outrun, I tried this today and he really had to think to go thru and then get around the sheep and bring them thru the gate. He's at a really good age where he is trying to work for me.

 

Thanks for you help. Nancy

That's why you would start with you between the dog and the sheep, the sheep against the fence with him in the open part of the paddock. From this set up, you can work on finding the distance this particular dog needs to be off the sheep that keeps him from creating too much reaction in the sheep and then himself. When you find that distance, you would start working this exercise there. It will help break the sheep to him and help him.

 

On gathering through the opening, it would be fun once in a while. But be careful not to lose its natural outrun cast. You'd be surprised how fast a new concept might take over a dogs brain by repeating something a few times. That's why doing it on the outside of the pen would be a good way to balance it—if there is a way for the dog to get inside from the lift point and then fetch through the opening.

 

Carol

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