Colton's_Mom Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 Alright I'll admit it's been a while since I've been on but in my defense there's been a move inbetween my gap. As some of you know I've been wanting a Border Collie puppy for some time and joined this form to gain information on the breed. It's been a huge help. I am also a member of a Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retriever form. I've been switching between the two breeds especially after going to a dog show/agility trial and seeing both barbie and sport border collies. The show atmosphere was pretty stuck up so I am not sure it is something that is really interesting to me. The agility arena was much more laid back. I liked it more. I would never consider owning a barbie collie I feel like it's betraying the true essence of the breed. I don't have sheep so I am not sure if a working collie is really for me, I would like to try herding with my Rottweiler Colton before deciding if I want to go to trials (know of anyone near the Louisville area?). I do go hunting so a Toller seems like an ok choice. Anyone have any advice that could help me pick between the two breeds? I adore them both I'm just not sure which one is 'my' breed. I still get that tug when I see a border collie even though I've been spending a lot more time looking at Tollers. Also any working BC breeders near Louisville, I'd like to meet their dogs as well as Tollers so I can try and judge as good as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PennyT Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 Get the Toller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claire24 Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 Here's a handsome toller for you, at a high-kill shelter not too far away. Age: 1 year Breed: Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retriever Gender: Male - Neutered! Impound date: 3/11 Ledger number: 27851 Why Choose Me? Desmond is a very handsome dog that looks very much like a Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retriever. At a year old, he weighs only 37 pounds, so he is the perfect size for most homes. He is up-to-date on his rabies vaccine and already neutered, so he requires very little veterinary care before he can go to his new home. Desmond has wonderful leash manners and will sit on command. He is extremely food motivated, so I’m sure that he could learn many more commands. Here's the website Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claire24 Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 I don't think that link worked so here it is. He's in Athens, GA, about 10 min from my house. http://athenspets.net/adoptables.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCDreamer Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 From someone who got a GSD instead of my dream Border Collie - I have to say, go with the breed you really want, or down the road, you'll be longing for your dream breed. I've always loved Border Collies, but finally getting mine showed me that they are really the breed for me. (Though, I can't say I wouldn't take a NSDTR! I do love that breed, as well... (and hope to own one, some day) the dog listed above may be a good choice for you if you're willing to wait longer for your BC) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colton's_Mom Posted March 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 That Toller boy is absolutely adorable I wish I could get him but ATM I can't get a puppy until we move into a bigger house (house in Tennessee has to sell and with the market who knows when?). I have a breeder of Tollers I really like. I still love the BC breed I am just not 100% sure they are for me. Anyone ever competed against Tollers? Experience with them vs BCs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Boots Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 We have a Toller, 2 BC's and an x-feral beagle mix. The Toller was my first dog as an adult and out of my parents house. They are all rescues, so he isn't purebred, but pretty close by looks and disposition, although he has too much white for akc to accept him, but I don't care about that. After getting the first bc, I quickly realized that I am not a Toller person. Don't get me wrong, I love Smudge dearly, and he was one of the cutest pups I have ever seen. But I have found that they tend to be on their own schedule. He has the attitude of a cat; you know, I'll do it on my own time. He have over 3 years training in a structured agility class and has gone to quite a few trials, he can be great when he wants to be, but if anything, and I mean anything catches his attention, he flips me the dew-claw and heads the other way. They also have very, very high pitched barks (if I had wanted a small dog I would have gotten one ) and I'll restate the attention span of a flea. I know someone who has a purebred and was surprised when I met Molly, that she had the exact same attitude. I had thought that the spacey personality was probably only mine, but her's is the same way, after trialing for 3 years she is still in open and novice classes and I know it is not do to lack of training and work. On the other hand, Smudge is more into the one on one and seems to need me more than the bc's do. They want to work for me, while he wants to lean on me. While there are a lot of bird hunters up here, I don't know of any that use Tollers, so I can't give an opinion on that. Overall, I would definately say go with your gut, and if you can't decide, then you probably aren't committed to what you want so you may just want to wait for a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 I still love the BC breed I am just not 100% sure they are for me. Don't be as concerned about what it's like to compete with these two different breeds but more about which breed you think is the one for you. Since you have real doubts about Border Collies, I would not advise getting one unless and until you no longer have doubts. I really think that if you get a dog that is a good match for you, rather than a dog that might be "more competitive", that you and the dog will be much happier. Doing what you enjoy together is much more important than doing something with the goal to win. Building the partnership is more important than any ribbons or prizes or qualifications. Remember that, if you get the dog you like, it will not disappoint you. If you get the dog you don't like, it will never please you. Best wishes in finding the right dog for you when the time comes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 Shayna (border_collie_crazy) has both. Search for her posts - there's a new one in the Gallery section right now. I'm surprised she hasn't chipped in here yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Beer Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 It's a tough call when you're torn. We definitely wanted another Border Collie when we added our third dog, but at the time I didn't feel I could handle another purebred. Speedy was only 10 months old at the time and was quite the handful. We went with a Border Collie mix because it was the smarter choice for us at the time. It truly was, and I wouldn't trade Maddie for the world, but that desire for another Border Collie never went away. Not until we eventually did adopt another Border Collie and the finally I stopped wanting another. I truly do like Border Collie mixes, and can definitely see adopting others in the future, but I also know that I like having at least two Border Collies. From what you say, it sounds to me like whichever you choose, you might still kind of want the other. There might not be any way around that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maralynn Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 I still love the BC breed I am just not 100% sure they are for me. Are there any reasons in particular you feel this way? There is nothing wrong with getting a working bred dog and not doing herding with it. They just need an active lifestyle with an outlet for their physical/mental energy. Also, have you considered field bred labs or goldens if you're interested in hunt trials? I know someone with a field bred lab - the dog is smaller (around 50#) with really nice drive and very eager to please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doggietrio Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 Anyone ever competed against Tollers? Experience with them vs BCs? A friend of ours has a Toller and Chug is AMAZING! I love that dog, and after her would consider getting one someday. She's from a working kennel and many of the dogs they produce go to hunting homes. Chug is a dog that was purchased by novice dog folks, is super outgoing and friendly with people and other dogs, has no issues, and before they tried flyball, they thought of her as just an active little dog (but NOT hyper). Once they got into flyball, they found the intensly driven dog that lurks underneath - and, the Toller scream. She is fast, easy to train, and always ready to go, but can just chill when they are hanging out at home. I always wanted them to get into agility with her, as I think she'd excel there as well. I would pit Chug against a BC for performance events - she's pretty evenly matched (she is a bit smaller though - at 17"). Truly, for these folks, she is the perfect dog. Does that mean all Tollers are that way - probably not. Good luck, Jennifer Akins Trowbridge, CA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS Cressa Posted March 18, 2009 Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 A friend of ours has a Toller and Chug is AMAZING! I love that dog, and after her would consider getting one someday. She's from a working kennel and many of the dogs they produce go to hunting homes. Chug is a dog that was purchased by novice dog folks, is super outgoing and friendly with people and other dogs, has no issues, and before they tried flyball, they thought of her as just an active little dog (but NOT hyper). Once they got into flyball, they found the intensly driven dog that lurks underneath - and, the Toller scream. She is fast, easy to train, and always ready to go, but can just chill when they are hanging out at home. I always wanted them to get into agility with her, as I think she'd excel there as well. I would pit Chug against a BC for performance events - she's pretty evenly matched (she is a bit smaller though - at 17"). Does that mean all Tollers are that way - probably not. LOL You pretty much describe all the tollers I know also! (I personally know 1 and have competed against 4) They are very fast when driven/focus but beware of the toller yowling. LOL If you like dogs that talk/yodel/howl when excited get a toller if not get a border collie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoloRiver Posted March 18, 2009 Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 My understanding is that the type of hunt work that Tollers do was always very specialized and that there are very, very few true working kennels left in the breed. In addition, the Toller was recognized by AKC and is being bred for and shown in conformation. As a result, drive and temperament are highly variable. If I were looking for a retriever to do sports with, I would look for a field-bred lab. The ones I have met have been high drive, athletic, and very trainable. If you are not sure that Border Collies are your cup of tea after spending time around them, then I think you would probably not be happy with one in your home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
border_collie_crazy Posted March 18, 2009 Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 lol I started to reply to this at work, but was not able to finish. yes I have 2 BCs and a Toller. I love both, but I lean more toward BCs. BUT I cannot claim to have experince with your typical Toller..Electra is NOT normal for the breed. SoloRiver is correct about there being very few true working breeders and the drive and temperment being highly veriable. my Toller comes from lines highly noted for versility, the lines came highly reccomended to me as someone who wanted a working/sport Toller, her sire is very well known in the breed, a top show dog, and a Rusty Jones award winner(versaility award for the highest scores in Agility, Hunting and Conformation at a national specialty), her dams side is packed with hunting titles. then their is Electra. GORGOUS dog, spectacular confromation dog with her very own fan club in the show world, sold as a preformance prospect(she wasnt very pretty as a puppy lol). sounds perfect right? wronge. she is missing one very important thing, something that prevents me from doing every single thing I wanted her for. she has a complete and total lack of DRIVE. Temperments vary, everone I know with a Toller reports to me entirely different temperments. some say they are fearful and have to be extensivly socialized, some say they are just reserved, mine is a goofball who adores everyone and always has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angie H Posted March 18, 2009 Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 Anyone have any advice that could help me pick between the two breeds? I adore them both I'm just not sure which one is 'my' breed. I still get that tug when I see a border collie even though I've been spending a lot more time looking at Tollers. Also any working BC breeders near Louisville, I'd like to meet their dogs as well as Tollers so I can try and judge as good as possible. For a long time I had that same "I've always admired Border Collies but I don't know if it's the right dog for me and I don't know if I can provide the right home". The more I researched the breed, the more I second guessed if I could "handle" the challenge. Since I too was not sure if I could do right by the breed, I began volunteering for Border Collie Rescue (MABCR). I spent every Saturday cleaning kennels and handling dogs, I fostered, trained, etc. I "knew" it was the right breed for me within about 2 months of research and handling exposure...they are like no other breed I've ever known. I still fostered about 15 dogs before I committed to adopting my own border collie. In that time, I learned about many different personalities and challenges in the breed. During that time I attended herding trials as well as agility trials, and I knew I wanted a relationship like that with my dog. Adopting a Border Collie is not like any other dog in my opinion. It is truly a lifestyle change. If you want to have that incredible relationship with your dog that so many border collie folks speak of, you have to be willing to spend the time and energy it takes to build it. The other thing I have to mention is that if you aren't planning to breed your dog for stock work, I really think rescue is the way to go. When you adopt a puppy at 8 weeks, you really have no idea what kind of temperament you are going to get. When you adopt a rescue dog at 6 mos plus, at least you know what kind of personality and work ethic the dog has. JMO - Good luck with your decision! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colton's_Mom Posted March 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 In the intermediate obedience class Colton is in there are two Border collies I sometimes see. I'm not sure if they're good representitives of the breed or not but they definantly turned me away. They didn't have much focus or drive at all. In a way I feel like I'm stewing over this waaaaaaaay to much. A few of the agility border collies seemed a bit neurotic one was barking its head off. I'm just not sure if I've seen dogs worthy of representing the breed. I guess I'll always be 'second' guessing myself but I'm going to be volunteering at a shelter I'll probably see several border collies/collie mixs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maralynn Posted March 19, 2009 Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 In the intermediate obedience class Colton is in there are two Border collies I sometimes see. I'm not sure if they're good representitives of the breed or not but they definantly turned me away. They didn't have much focus or drive at all. In a way I feel like I'm stewing over this waaaaaaaay to much. A few of the agility border collies seemed a bit neurotic one was barking its head off. I'm just not sure if I've seen dogs worthy of representing the breed. I guess I'll always be 'second' guessing myself but I'm going to be volunteering at a shelter I'll probably see several border collies/collie mixs. Maybe it would also help to attend a couple USBCHA trials to see what you can expect from a well bred working Border Collie. And some retriever field trials. You could see good representations of both breeds and get a feel for which one you think would be a better fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS Cressa Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 Here are some toller puppies!!! They have one of the cutest puppy looks.... and here are some border collies puppy pixs: Good luck deciding! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Boots Posted March 20, 2009 Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 Here are some toller puppies!!! They have one of the cutest puppy looks.... photo removed and here are some border collies puppy pixs: photo removed Good luck deciding! I don't know about colton's mom, but I'll take one of each...pups are sooooo cute! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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