OurBoys Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 Even though it might take as long as 4 yrs until we get some farm land, I'm doing my 'homework' now. I purchased a book called The Self-Sufficient Life and How To Live It by John Seymour. In it he stated using chickens as a form of organic pest control by letting them scratch around in a field after plowing but before sowing the seed. It makes sense reading it from a book but I was wondering if anyone here actually did this? I feel it could be done but in a fenced in pasture to help keep any predators away. Also, I would be interested in any pros & cons. One pro would be if there are any grubs in the ground, the chickens could benefit since grubs (and others) are protein. A con would be them eating something that's not good for them. What could that be??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 I've never done that, but my chickens have a ball scratching around when I clean out the stalls in the barn getting all the critters that were living under the straw. They also mechanically distrubute the straw/manure pile by scratching through it looking for bugs. They also keep the general insect population down around the yard. I can't imagine what they could get into in a plowed field that might hurt them. If you were to do something like that, a moveable house/pen to close them up in at night for their safety would be a must. I'd probably get electric poultry net (electronet for chickens) and set them up and area within the plowed field and just move them around as needed. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fosher Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 I've been looking at raising some broilers on pasture, and I'm having trouble figuring out how much of the 15 pounds of grain that it normally takes to get a broiler to weight would be replaced by grass and bugs. Frankly, it would have to be an awful lot -- I'm coming up with a cash production cost of $6.23/lb using conventional grain, and $7.87 using organic grain. I am also not including the cost of electricity for the brooder in the cost because I don't know how to estimate it, and I don't think it will be huge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 Bill, I don't keep real close track, but my chickens get by on very little grain. I give them layer crumbles to make sure they are getting enough protein to lay eggs, but they go through it very slowly. I throw out scratch or corn for them but they don't really have to have that. Then again, I'm not raising broilers, but layers.... J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsnrs Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 We are using lots of lay mash it seems and the stuff is very expensive. We give scratch on occasion. My Plymouth Barred Rocks were the best chickens for egg laying of the brown layer breed. Very hardy also. We don't raise them for eggs to make money though we probably could get by on less food. They are fun to watch and provide some sort of fowl for the dogs on work on occasion when they get out or to use to prevent the chickens from escaping. I imagine eggs purchased at the store would be cheaper but we are used to having them around. The ones we have now don't eat many bugs as they are in a 12 x 12 ft fenced area. They are rather picky which ones they do eat. They do eat leftovers though and enjoy excess garden produce. N Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silhouettestable Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 Other than poison, I doubt there's much that will harm a chicken. My layers can and do eat anything and everything they come across, in addition to their feed. We don't compost anything because all food scraps end up going either to the dogs or the chickens. In addition to things like veggies, fruits and breads they also love pasta and meat, really anything that's remotely edible. I don't have any plowed fields, but I let mine out to free range and they do a good job of breaking up the horse manure. I've heard of the idea of a portable house, I think it's called a chicken tractor? I bet the heavy meat chickens would be much healthier foraging for most of their food. If fed too heavily on a commercial diet that's easily available to them they can be prone to leg problems and heart attacks. I used to feed mine heavier to grow them bigger sooner but now I limit their food more and they have no leg problems and I loose very few. I don't free range them just because I'm afraid they might get trampled by the horses, they're quite a bit slower moving than the layers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasha's Mom Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 We've got both layers and meat birds. Well, we had meat birds, but they're in the freezer. Chickens will eat just about anything - they are my living compost pile. I don't free-range my birds because I'm a proverbial chicken, but there are plenty of people who do. We feed layer crumble, which is cheaper than dog food. (How I justify it.) Actually the meaties were on chick starter up until they were butchered, as they were 8-10 weeks. But boy, they are eating machines! And pooping machines, for that matter. The layers don't eat near that much. I know of people who let their chickens into their gardens to turn over the soil at the end of the growing season - and even one who alternates the garden site on either side of the coop, moving fences to incorporate alternating sides into the run area. I would do this, except our growing season rarely ends here in south-central Fl. Which reminds me to order more meaties... They are not a huge financial loss for us (coop was cheap to build with cast-off lumber), and the entertainment value is better than I expected... but I never expected to make any money on them - just grow some good meat and eggs. Not to hype a non-border collie board, but you might check out www.backyardchickens.com for more info and ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OurBoys Posted March 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 Thanks for the replies! Julie, I was wondering how to build our coop. It sounds like an old single axle trailer we have would be a good option to convert if I want it to be mobile. I need to check out the electronet for chickens. Danielle, Thanks for the chicken boards! I didn't realize there were such a place. I have a feeling I'm going to be visiting it often! I was thinking about ordering this book I found online but I'm going to hold off for now. If that place is anything like this board, buying that book will be a waste of money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthfieldNick Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 Bill, I'd be interested to see your numbers and how you worked them out. My family raised meat birds forever, but I haven't done it in a few years. I's like to get back into it, mostly to fill my own freezer, but now that the WA state rules have changed, maybe sell a few. Mostly, I want to run them behind sheep to help with parasites. Brenda, chickens are GREAT at fertilising and de-bugging garden space. They are also GREAT at getting eaten by anything and everything that can eat them. Electronet is your best friend. That, along with a roofed chicken tractor (bottomless, movable pen) has reduced my predator losses to nothing. I'm still working on how to let my birds range in the net pen but not get eaten by eagles (I live in the most eagle-populated spot in the lower 48, seriously). Nothing beats fresh eggs, and nothing, and I mean NOTHING compares to the taste of home raised, pasture-fed meat birds! (ETA: Okay, that last line makes zero sense. I'm drugged up on cold meds. I blame those. ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fosher Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 Hi Ben, Knock yourself out! http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pEQ...jmhBczkjClXiPWw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 I just wanted to add that my layers aren't traditional laying breeds like leghorns but rather heritage dual-purpose breeds like Rhode Island Reds and Dominiques, and they still don't have great feed requirements. As for predation by hawks, I don't have any experience with eagles as Ben does in his area; my biggest problem is Cooper's Hawks, and they really are a bit small to take a full-grown larger breed chicken (my Old English Game bantams are another story). My former neighbor raises another heritage dual-purpose breed (Delawares) and doesn't generally lose any to hawks. The hawks that are big enough to take them, like redtails, have never bothered me or her. Another thing to consider is that if you're raising chickens for meat, you're keeping them for a pretty short time--something like 8 weeks, and so potential predators like hawks might not even "find" them before you're ready to butcher. Electronet for poultry can work well, although lighter birds can probably fly over it (but if there's plenty to eat inside the net, they should stay put). Chicken tractors are a good solution, but I think you'd be limited to a smaller number of chickens (or a large number of tractors) because the whole point of the tractor is that it be easy to move. Brenda, My former neighbor did something like that. They built a coop with perches and nest boxes onto a small trailer. They made the floor wire so droppings could pass through (you'd need to find something that would be sturdy, large enough spaces to allow the droppings through but still let the chickens walk on it). Theirs was tall enough that an adult could pretty much stand up inside for ease of cleaning, and they also made little doors all the way down the outside at the same level as the nest boxes so that you could gather eggs without going inside. In theory what they should have done is rotate their cattle, sheep, and chickens (chickens between cattle and sheep) around the pastures. The biggest thing about moving them around is making sure they have plenty of water. I've had chickens (again the OEG--usually half-grown chicks) drown in stock tanks, so I try to keep chicken waterers in several different locations. I actually just use a stationary 10 x 10 chain link dog kennel with a roof built on and a house built onto the back. It works great for the OEGs. The RIRs and Doms have perches built into one of the stalls in the barn and spend the night there. I have so many dogs, plus the LGD, that I don't really worry about something like a coon, etc., coming up to the barn and bothering them at night. All the chickens range the property during the day. They will eat just about anything--I've even watched one RIR trying to get a RMB from a dog. Fortunately my dogs aren't inclined to snap the head off an impertinent hen! I've also watched them go after mice and other little critters like that--and I'm very happy for them to do so. They keep the yard pretty clean and they do break down the various types of manure around here. I want to go to a system where I can cull the older hens for the dogs because of course they'll be a much healthier meat than I can get at the store, but I just recently added the layers, so it will be a little while before I can do that. Now y'all have me thinking about getting a few broilers and just throwing them out with everyone else to see how they do. They'd be destined for dog food too, so it wouldn't matter if they didn't grow as well as needed for typical broiler growth (that is, I wouldn't have to worry about uniformity in size, etc.). J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 I love the comments about chickens eating just about anything. When we had Rhode Island Reds in southwestern VA, they were free-ranging, only shut up at night for their protection. One day, we looked out at the goat pasture as we heard a bit of a squabble. A hen had found an old, dessicated, mouse carcass (no more than bones, hide, and fur) and every hen was all about getting that treasure for herself. It provided us with five or ten minutes of pure pleasure as the chicken version of the Keystone Kops played keep-away. We'd like chickens again but that's still on the drawing boards. Ed is all about the portable chicken shed to put in the pastures with the cows. Chickens are great for some natural pest control, as long as some bigger pest isn't controlling them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 I love the comments about chickens eating just about anything. When we had Rhode Island Reds in southwestern VA, they were free-ranging, only shut up at night for their protection. One day, we looked out at the goat pasture as we heard a bit of a squabble. A hen had found an old, dessicated, mouse carcass (no more than bones, hide, and fur) and every hen was all about getting that treasure for herself. It provided us with five or ten minutes of pure pleasure as the chicken version of the Keystone Kops played keep-away. Ha! When Robin was last here giving lessons, my RIRs provided entertainment with what was either a mouse body minus the skin or a baby rat (sans fur), which was Robin's best guess. Of course I don't think *everyone* here found it as entertaining (in a sick way) as some of us did! Ah, the things that pass for fun in the country! I once found a mouse in the bottom of a grain bin and couldn't find the resident cat (whom I'll plop down in the bin with said mouse if I can), so instead I dumped the mouse out in front of a bunch of chickens. They did their best, but that day the mouse won and escaped.... J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OurBoys Posted March 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 I've been doing some reading/research on tractors. If dh won't let me use the trailer, then he'll just have to build me one. In some plans, they use 4x4 posts on the corners and just attached the wheels to those. I like those electronets for chickens too! I also remembered we have an old porch shade/blind. DH is wanting to get some AutoCad practice so I think I'll ask him to make some plan for a tractor and have him include the shade. (If he still has the program, it's really old but if it still works that would be great.) If I can roll the shade out (when/if needed), that should protect the chickens from hawks or eagles depending on where we move too. It should also serve to keep the chickens in the fenced in area if they have a tendency to fly out. Or does using the shade sound dumb??? (I am beginning to feel a little brain fried from trying to absorb everything.) Also, if I can get him to figure out a way to be able to use solar power, I could run the fence any time and any place. And probably a warming lamp as well in the winter. I know initially it would be expensive but in the long run I'm hoping it could save us money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura L Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 Bill, When I raised broilers a couple of years ago, they were in a movable coop. When I got up in the morning I would kick them out in the pasture and let them forage for a couple of hours. Then I'd move the pen, fill their feeder & waterer and let them back in. Then when I got home after work, they would get kicked out again until it was dark. What seemed to work best was to just give them enough grain so they would finish it at night and would come out hungry in the morning. So they were out for 5-6 hours a day during the week and a bit more on weekends. I think that I remember reading that they could replace 20-30% of the grain with what they foraged on their own. It also helps to keep them healthier (or as healthy as Chickzillas could be). Are you going to raise them out in the pasture with your sheep or will they be near your house? My layers are more like Julie's, older breeds that forage a lot on their own and then get locked in the coop at night. The only predator that has bothered them were raccoons if the the wasn't shut at night. The hawks have plenty of other things to eat and haven't gone after the chickens. The Great Horned Owls got all the guinea hens that insisted on roosting in trees though. Laura Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 Ha! When Robin was last here giving lessons, my RIRs provided entertainment with what was either a mouse body minus the skin or a baby rat (sans fur), which was Robin's best guess. Of course I don't think *everyone* here found it as entertaining (in a sick way) as some of us did! Ah, the things that pass for fun in the country! I once found a mouse in the bottom of a grain bin and couldn't find the resident cat (whom I'll plop down in the bin with said mouse if I can), so instead I dumped the mouse out in front of a bunch of chickens. They did their best, but that day the mouse won and escaped.... J. Sounds kind of like those medieval tests that, if you survived, you were innocent and went free. If you didn't, well, you were guilty and deserved to die. This time, it was the quick and the chick(ens), and the quick won. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 This time, it was the quick and the chick(ens), and the quick won. Yeah, only the quick probably wouldn't have won if darn JellyBean had been handy! I'm squeamish about killing things like mice myself, so I need a cat, or chicken, or some other critter to do it for me. That mouse got lucky.... Brenda, A cover isn't a crazy idea at all. I almost suggested it myself as a way to protect from winged predators. Also, you can get solar powered fence chargers for use with electronet. I've never used a heat lamp or other warming device in winter. At least in this climate, healthy birds should be able to manage just fine without, especially if they're in a draft-free (not airtight) coop. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisK Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 Hi Brenda, I'm on this board as well and the Poultry section is really helpful. some of the other subforums (sheep, etc.) can have good information as well. http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/index.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OurBoys Posted March 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 Thanks Julie!! Wow, Kris!! That homesteading forum has a little of everything! It's great!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Boots Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 We live very close to Nick and also have hawk/eagle issues. We lost one of our hens last fall from a hawk attack, luckily I wasn't home, but Paul saw it happen right before his eyes, ugh, horrible sounding. So we have gotten some of the narrow, colored plastic streamers that you often see at construction sights, you could probably also use the shiny blueberry streamers and have attached them to movable plastic stakes out in the yard. We don't leave them up all the time, as they are pretty ugly and the hawks seem to go threw phases of checking out the hens, I'm assuming it must go with when the mouse hunting isn't good. I got the idea from a friend who has a bunch of little dogs and they have a resident bald eagle that lives within a mile and it was teaching it's eaglet (sp?) how to hunt and she didn't want her dogs to be used as target practice. Whent he streamers blow in the wind they seem to give the illusion of a roof above them. Also another great layer is the Buff Orpington, they are brown egg layers and lay year round, typically the RI reds don't lay year round, or not around here anyway, but our RI red seems to have continued laying, we think it is due to the buff laying. I will also agree with the amount of pleasure that the chickens give us, they come when called and one of them guards any food we give her from our youngest dog and will even chase him, he knows he's not allowed to even look cross eyed at the hens, but you can see his frustration when she starts chasing him across the yard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronHorse Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 Just a quick tip for those thinking about building a chicken tractor inexpensively. Think pvc pipe, chicken wire and zip ties, wheels (if you even want them)off an old push lawnmower work fine due to the lightweight of the whole thing. Weight is a big factor when your dealing with something you want to be mobile by hand. Lighter means you can build it bigger and bigger means more birds per unit. Durability,well wood rots,pvc doesn't,you might have to occasionally add a ziptie here or there but otherwise you've got a pretty much maintinence free tractor that will outlive you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fosher Posted March 18, 2009 Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 How do the PVC units hold up to wind? Do you have to stake them down? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthfieldNick Posted March 18, 2009 Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 Bill, they don't. I tried it, and they went to pieces. We get some serious wind here, and it ripped the top off the staked-in bottom. What worked for me was to build a base of wood, then use piping (I used 3/4" irrigation mainline) to make a hoop house on top. I used shade cloth & greenhouse plastic for shelter on one end. Those work great for seasonal birds- the snow flattens them. My year-round birds (the layers) are in wooden tractors. Heavy, yes, but I'm not opposed to work The only thing I need to fix on the hoop houses is to put a better center brace in. ((Where was I? Had to go pour wine on the brisket braising in the oven.)) Right, center bracing. My center braces were too weak & got smashed in the snow because I was too lazy to drag the (empty) tractors into the barn. You could always do like my friend does: uses oxen to drag along big, heavy chicken tractors & pig houses! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenajo Posted March 18, 2009 Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 We only keep a half dozen brown and black hens of no particular breed for layers. The lgd keeps them safe with the sheep. Many days we'll see the chickens grazing all around their dog, literally pecking under her nose. Lily will not suffer a bird to land near her flock. She's pretty much retrained the local buzzards and hawks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronHorse Posted March 19, 2009 Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 How do the PVC units hold up to wind? Do you have to stake them down? I just stuffed some old rebar down the top pipes and stake the bottom. I think to keep the high wind from being a problem just build it stout, the ones i built i used 3' centers all the way around,top,sides and bottom. I used sch 80 pipe and made sure to glue all my joints as if i was going pressurise it. Typical cheap tarp over one end for shade and rain protection. I've had winds high enough to take singles off the house but didn't bother the pvc tractors at all,,of course they are only 2 foot high so they hug the ground well. Oh yea I did spray paint them with a white latex before I wired them to increase the uv protection. (ETA) I used 1" pipe, I would think that irrigation pipe would work well also. would be more flexible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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