Question.. ?

[Marcelo Monteiro]

Whats this positive and negative estimulation??

 

how does it work and if im saying it right "estimulation" or its "a way to deal with the dog" ... dunno

 

tnks

[desertranger]

I've found several references to estimulation. It seems to be a method of therapy to cover everything from spinal injuries to artificial insemination. I didn't find anything as it relates directly to dogs.

 

I wonder if estimulation covers the economy?

[juliepoudrier]

Desertranger,

Marcelo is not a native English speaker, so perhaps it would be more helpful to try to understand what he means rather than just making light of his question?

 

Marcelo,

Are you referring to positive and negative reinforcement in training?

 

J.

[Marcelo Monteiro]

Exactaly!!! Thats it !

 

how u do it ... when u use it ... can u help me plz?

 

PS: sorry again about my english long time i don´t practice writing

[desertranger]

I wasn't making light of his Q. Nor did I know English is not his primary language. I made every attempt to answer this and that's what I found when I went looking for estimulation.

 

Here's a reference from Rutgers University. I found a lot more so I thought it was a legit Q and tried to answer it.

 

 

Apparently estimuilation or properly E-stimulation is used in nerve therapy quite extensively to remedy everything from a bad back to urinary problems and beyond.

 

I don't try to be funny all the time.

[Eileen Stein]

desertranger, your reference to the economy was a little odd if your answer was as legit as you say. If you live in the Southwest I'm sure you have heard the "e" sound before an initial "s" before.

 

Marcelo, welcome to the Boards. We would say positive and negative stimulation, without the "e."

 

Very basically, positive stimulation would be some type of reward, such as food treats, praise or play, that you would give to a dog when he does something you want to encourage. You want to stimulate him to do that behavior in the future. Negative stimulation would be some type of correction or punishment, such as saying "no" or a pull on his collar, that you would do when he does something you don't want him to do. This is an oversimplification, because the subject is a very big one, and according to learning theory there are actually positive and negative types of reward (reinforcement), and positive and negative types of punishment. The whole subject is one that some trainers discuss a lot.

 

In training a dog to herd livestock, the livestock itself is the main reinforcer, and you try to give access to the sheep when the dog is working correctly, in a way you want to encourage. You try to prevent him from having access to the sheep when he is not working correctly. Praise is also a way of giving positive reinforcement. The main negative stimulation in training a dog on livestock is pressure, such as when you "push him out," with your body pressure when he is working too close. Verbal corrections (aka shouting at him) are also used a lot.

 

I'm assuming your question was about stockdog training. Is that right, or were you asking a more general question about training a dog to behave well around the house, or to do tricks, etc.?

[Marcelo Monteiro]

yes it was about stockdog training...

and my question was exactaly what u said, the thing about positive and negative rewards ... whats that ? or positive or negative punishment

 

and when sould i use positive reward and negative reward

 

hope you understand it LOL

[juliepoudrier]

Marcelo,

I think Eileen got a pretty good start for you on that definition.

 

The positive for your dog when training on sheep is to be allowed to continue working.

 

Negative reinforcement/stimulation would be the corrections you give in training. That could be getting between the dog and the stock to prevent it from working, it could be taking the dog away completely and putting it up at extreme, or it could be simply stepping in to the dog to use your body pressure on it or using a voice correction. All of these are negatives of varying degrees.

 

It's generally believed that praise isn't really necessary since being able to work the stock is reward (positive) enough, but I know a lot of people, myself included, who will use praise modestly. That is, we don't do so much praising as to take the dog's mind off its work, but, for example, if I've been working on a concept that seems particularly difficult for the dog and the dog finally gets it right, I might say "good" to let him know I was happy with his response.

 

For what it's worth, positive and negative reinforcement/stimulation isn't terminology commonly used in stockdog training, which is why Eileen asked if perhaps you were asking about training manners or tricks. When talking about training stockdogs, it's more common to talk about pressure and the release of pressure.

 

I hope that helps some.

 

J.

[Eileen Stein]

yes it was about stockdog training...

and my question was exactaly what u said, the thing about positive and negative rewards ... whats that ? or positive or negative punishment

 

and when sould i use positive reward and negative reward

 

There is a short book by Karen Pryor called Don't Shoot The Dog which gives a clear account of these terms. You can also find definitions on various websites by googling the terms. Technically (and very basically), positive reinforcement is giving a dog something it likes when it does something you like. Negative reinforcement is taking away something the dog does not like when it does something you like. Both of those methods reinforce the behavior the dog did and make it more likely the dog will do it again. Positive punishment is giving the dog something it doesn't like when it does something you don't like. Negative punishment is taking away something the dog likes when it does something you don't like. Both of those methods discourage the behavior the dog did and make it less likely the dog will do it again. This is an over-simplification of terms that are often misused anyway, so I don't know how helpful it is.

 

As Julie said, most good sheepdog trainers do not place much stock in these theoretical terms, or spend much time in discussing them. These terms are much more popular with trainers who train dogs for other things. Most of the good stockdog trainers I know use a more commonsense, less theoretical method of making the behavior you want easier or more rewarding for the dog, and making the behavior you don't want harder or less rewarding for the dog.

 

So the bottom line is that I would not recommend getting too hung up on behavioral theory and terminology.

[Marcelo Monteiro]

so ... let's see if i get it right..

 

for stickdogs i can use the positive stimulation as letting him go to the sheeps and by punishing letting him lay down or some shout or something??

 

is that it or i cant use the lay down command?