Lewie'sMom Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 RDM, It IS nice to see you! You are another member who's thoughts and opinions I sit up and listen to carefully. Snarky or nice, I love ya' dudette! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bo Peep Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 I like RDM's way of speaking (typing) it's to the point, blunt and you sure get what she's talking about. I remember when I my rescue, Blue, and she told me I should keep him more than a week to know his true demeanor. That, normally would have been VERY true. However, you can not pry that dog from his new owners hands. Blue is his for keeps. Things don't seem the same around here, but I'm sticking it out and wish the rest of you would, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kajarrel Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 I don't like the "blunt" talk - I think it's rude and off putting. But, that said, I think this is a pretty friendly time for the Boards. I like seeing more "sheep" people joining in (because I like a mix of people and perspectives, not because I don't value "pet" or sport perspectives). However, I assume that the majority of the people viewing the Boards are still actually PET people, because I suspect (but don't know) that this makes up the majority of border collie owners. FWIW, *I* often feel like an alien here (Do you sense a trend?) - a person who works their dogs and raises sheep, but hates to trial - now how many of *us* are there on the Boards? I rarely participate now-a-days because I'm too busy (Spring Break this week!) and after 26 years of border collie ownership I have worked through many of the "newbie" problems; however, I still find the training discussions helpful and the stories heartwarming/fun. I don't think it's unusual to "burn out" from time to time when you participate in a forum and suggest, rather than leaving all together, back off for a little while. Never know when you'll need advice and this is the place to come . . . Kim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debbie Meier Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 The whole being "Blunt" thing is interesting to read about, you could probably ask anyone that knows me personally and they will say that I am blunt, some like me for it some don't. Some feel threatened by it taking it as being confrontational or argumentative. It's not meant to be mean spirited, I just tend to say it as I see it. But, I don't always say what I am thinking, there are times that I just need to bite my tongue in lieu of getting nasty and sarcastic. In many cases if I said or typed what I was thinking it would be in a mean spirit and meant to hurt just based on my mood at the time or whether or not the conversation is making me want to get aggressive or snarky, I just count to ten and remind myself to be patient, sometimes rewriting my response or just plain backing out and leaving it unsaid, or in the case of person to person conversation just excusing myself. Though, I've been known to blow a cork and say what I'm thinking if I have made attempts to move out of a pressure situation and the aggressor keeps pushing on, it doesn't happen often and it usually is not inflicted on the same person twice. I don't like myself during and after such an event and really don't care for others that display the same tendency. I can accept blunt, it's the extra stuff that get's applied with it or after it that gets my hackles up. There are some things that you can just say and there are some things that are better left unsaid, especially when people on the other side of the conversation don't have fair warning that a tongue lashing is coming. Deb... ..seems to me I've been accused of being one of those Trolls, I didn't realize that stepping up and saying "me to" in support was considered being a Troll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurae Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 ..seems to me I've been accused of being one of those Trolls, I didn't realize that stepping up and saying "me to" in support was considered being a Troll. Nah, you contribute good stuff, often with a unique perspective, Debbie. I think RDM was referring to people whose only contribution seems to be stirring the pot by saying, "me, too"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllieMackie Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 Was gonna stay away from this one, but I keep thinking of things I want to say. Mostly, I want to keep this on a positive note. But first, Barb, if you're still reading... I'm sorry that someone's personal attack set you off, but in reading your thread where you introduced Spirit to us, there was a page chock full of positive comments on your puppy, and not one negative. I know it can be easy to focus on the negative aspects, but frankly, more people on this board were simply happy to see you happy with your new puppy. I came here unknoledgable about border collies. I asked about breeders, got pissy at a lot of you, and almost thought about leaving because you were all a bunch of snobbish jerks. But I stuck it through. I realized that a lot of you have made similar mistakes and seen my kind over and over. Fast forward. I have an adorable puppy. I live in the city, and have no intentions of working him on livestock as a job (only potentially as a weekend hobby). He will be a companion, and agility dog. Despite all of this, I have not once felt unwanted in this community. When I was being the newbie jerk, many of you PMed me with helpful suggestions on what I SHOULD be looking for in a breeder, and it was thanks to someone here that I was put in contact with Mary, Finnegan's breeder. You have all been here for training advice, to laugh at Finn's ridiculous puppyness, and to comiserate with me when he does decidedly BC-ish things. (See my clicker thread). I consider several of you friends, and hope to make more as I continue to frequent. So, thanks, everyone. You're not all that bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaos Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 I have been here for quite awhile and have to say that the boards are very congenial these days. There used to be some pretty awe inspiring flame wars. I actually credit these boards with learning how to maintain perspectve. Annonymous people can say anything they want from behind their keyboards. Only you can let them bug you. This discussion does come around every year at this time. We could set our DaylightSavings time watches by it. We are all a bit cabin feverey and needing to pass on the foul moods. In another month spring will hit, every one will be outside playing with the pups and the mood will switch again. Sara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bc4ever Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 I have been here for quite awhile and have to say that the boards are very congenial these days. There used to be some pretty awe inspiring flame wars. I actually credit these boards with learning how to maintain perspectve. Annonymous people can say anything they want from behind their keyboards. Only you can let them bug you. This discussion does come around every year at this time. We could set our DaylightSavings time watches by it. We are all a bit cabin feverey and needing to pass on the foul moods. In another month spring will hit, every one will be outside playing with the pups and the mood will switch again. Sara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbc1963 Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 So, I've been on the 'net for about 16 years, and early on in my original forum was known as an extremely "blunt" person who did occasionally hurt other people's feelings and start little blustery flaming threads. Eventually, I became an old-timer, and was often spoken of as the "voice of reason." I'm glad I went through the early stuff, because it taught me a LOT about communication. So... from inside the thick, flame-scarred hide I've devloped... INTERNET 101 A) Hey, how about this Internet!? This guy over here wrote a freaking poem to me, called "The Silver Goddess."* How weird is that? And this lady over here hates my guts. She thinks I'm the devil! She things I'm going to be the downfall of American television writing... and I don't know a single freaking thing about television writing! Yeesh! It's not real love, and it's not real hate. It's just the Internet. They don't know you. B ) You can type things without sending them. It's permitted. C) If you can't believe point B... Wait. Reread. Edit. Do you sound irritated? Grouchy? Hypersensitive? Convinced of your absolute correctness? Those aren't good undercurrents to put into a communication that is not attached to facial expressions or physical context. Take them out. Better yet, come back in 12 hours and see if you still want to phrase things exactly that way. The cool flip side is that over time, out of the heat of the moment, you can often think of really strong, excellent arguments that make you sound super-smart and pulled-together. Better to be quoted saying something witty and insightful than some snarky comment that only erupted because you have PMS. Or stayed up all night with your diarrhea-smacked border collie. (I... ahem... speak from personal experience.) D) Positions aren't as important as people. It's easy to forget there's another human on the other side of the keyboard, and that your defense of your position might be worded so that it implies the other human is stupid, or greedy, or evil, or (fill in the insult). Odds are that's not what you're intending to say. Consider whether it's worth insulting the human to take a philosophical position. E) Whatever you say can and will be quoted back to you and debated. People who feel strongly about their positions will quote small snippets of your comments and then give "evidence" to prove them wrong, point by point. It's strange, yes - doesn't happen in real life because we don't have the ability to dissect and parse conversation that way in real life. It can feel really insulting, yes. Mostly, allowing things to descend into a protracted snippet-quoting duel is both pointless and tiring. Mostly, ignoring snippet-by-snippet challenges - speaking instead to general themes - is a sensible response. (Of course, sometimes you'll run up against a complete troll, and you'll need to use your superior intellect to annihilate him, point by point.) F) If you find that your words cause scorching tiny flame wars to erupt, over and over... well, the odds are that your words are the common denominator. The good news is that you're a human, and you have this great cerebral cortex. You can quickly make generalizations based on past experiences, and amend your future behavior to prevent unwanted events from repeating. G) Sometimes, if you take the 'net too seriously, it will hurt your feelings and make you feel discouraged. And you might decide to never come back, and you might post that, to tell people. And your friends might post, "Oh, please stay," which will make you feel good. And you really should stay. But after you've done this once (and I have done this once, yes I have), you can't do it again without appearing to be a diva. Or, as one of my students put it, "Really dramastic." *True story. OMG. Mary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1sheepdoggal Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 Mary! Dramastic! My official new word for the weekend! Thanks! Patty, I hadnt noticed your new title under your avatar! Being a Trek fan, Im thinkin thats pretty funny! Good one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ooky Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 Count me in the crowd that thinks 1) Barb should stay as we all benefit from her presence here 2) this is really a pretty nice forum in terms of the discourse 3)a little bluntness isn't so bad and can sometimes be quite interesting 4) they received "mean" comments at some earlier time but has learned invaluable lessons from the board on those and a billion other issues 5) it is a complete waste of energy to get personally upset when strangers on the internet disagree with you - but it sometimes happens anyway, especially when talking about beloved companions with such a wide variety of folk (inevitable is the word that comes to mind...) 6) anyone afraid to post for fear of "starting something" by total accident either doesn't really want to engage in discussion on the matter anyway or should develop thicker skin! And I'm being blunt here because I want to read your post, most likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoloRiver Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I started reading and posting to Usenet in college. Sadly, Usenet is nothing but a spam-filled waste of time now, but it used to be a really useful source for specialized knowledge about pretty much any topic, including dogs. It was also rough, tumble, and no-holds-barred. People had THICK hides back then. You ain't seen nothing if you never saw Usenet. If you never saw Usenet, you don't know what a flame really is. I have only seen comparable vitriol here once or twice, and it's been years since I saw it. This is a very benign forum. I honestly do not understand why people decide to take so damn many things personally, to the point that it often seems people are going out of their way to take things personally, for no reason whatsoever. Seriously, people here are very restrained. I am not really sure how much nicey-nicer it can get here. Personally, I would rather read people's unvarnished opinions than polite doublespeak. Although I have made friends here, I am not here to make friends, I am here to learn and to exchange ideas, and it is not particularly important to me that people here "like" me. Perhaps that is the difference: I look at the Boards as an information source, not a social club, and I realize that I don't really know anyone here, other than the people I actually know. And you don't know me either. And since you don't know me (except for, like I said, the people I actually know), why would I care if any of you hate me, or think I don't belong here, or don't fit in? Really. Who has the time to worry about that? This is tiring. Can we talk about dogs again please? No wonder Sheena hasn't been around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bc4ever Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 Mary (mbc 1963), I think your post should be used as part of the introduction to this Board! Thank you. Pam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcburniefarm Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 I'm new here and not too involed at all....I felt like nick the new guy after my first post....but then I read that hilarious string by bordercolliesam and realized there is a world of good hearts out here, even if everyone's opinion isn't going to jive. Everyone has good impression days and bad impression days. My take was that as long as I wasn't going to breed my dog (unknown heritage, so nutered) and I loved him unconditionally ( I do) then I was ok to be here and learn. JMHO Sue in NY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjk05 Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 I'm all for open discussion, even if it's blunt. I really enjoy seeing different perspectives and vigorous debate. What kills me is the way the PM system sometimes gets used for personal attacks. If you can't say something in public, you usually shouldn't be saying it in a PM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurae Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 Wow. That's probably the most obnoxious post I've ever read here. An unprovoked personal attack, just because one person doesn't like another. And from someone lamenting all the "negative changes" seen on the boards lately just two pages back. A new low for the boards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweet_ceana Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 Wow. That's probably the most obnoxious post I've ever read here. An unprovoked personal attack, just because one person doesn't like another. And from someone lamenting all the "negative changes" seen on the boards lately just two pages back. A new low for the boards. It seems to me to be a new low for that individual. ETA: For goodness sakes this is a forum about DOGS filled with people who don't know each other except for on the internet. Chill out people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eileen Stein Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 I have been away for a few days assisting a friend who broke her wrist with lambing. If I had seen this thread earlier, I would have closed it. No one should feel any need to start a thread to tell the rest of us that you no longer wish to participate here. This is especially true if your grievance is with an individual who sent you a personal email. In the first place, your post is off-topic. Second, there is nothing anyone but me can do about a private email to you, and therefore if you wish something done about it, your only effective course is to contact me. If you don't wish something done about it, why post about it? Finally, as others have said, this is a forum composed of a great many individuals. There is no way any one of us, including me, can mold it to your liking. Even if people beg you to stay, even if people point out that the reason you give for leaving does not seem valid, what point is there in discussing the subject? if you don't like the Boards, you are right to leave. If you do like the Boards, you are right to stay. If you make a genuine contribution to the Boards, people will appreciate you. If you don't, they won't. Unfortunately, threads begun to proclaim a dissatisfied departure usually become contentious and depressing. That has not been totally true of this one -- some very good comments have been made. But other comments have been anything but constructive, and bc4ever's gratuitous insult to Melanie (which I have deleted) is one of the most egregious examples of flaming I've ever seen here. Any further posting like that and the poster will no longer have any reason to be concerned about the atmosphere on the Boards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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