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Barb, I've already said this privately, but I'll say it publicly also. I really hope that you'll find your way back to us.

 

I'm one of the ones that rarely post these days. It is mostly due to personal stresses in my life, but some days I almost get involved and I just wind up deleting whatever I'm about to post. But, these things are like cycles - members come and go, and one can almost set the clock on the "Westminster" posts, the CP posts, and the WWE style posts. Tones change, and they come and go too. Anyone who knows me also knows that I just don't have the stomach for nastiness, deliberate bating, and so on. I also don't as much have the stomach for the CP stuff when it's ad nauseum - but I also remember what it was like when I first joined here (geez, has it really been five years??) and everything was so new... so fresh and exciting, and don't want to take away that excitement for anyone else.

 

I'm not sure what the answer is really. I know that when I post here I try hard to temper opinion with tact and kindness. Delivery doesn't have to be intentionally confrontational, and I also try to take others' opinions with a certain amount of detachment also. Sometimes it's hard to do that, but worth it.

 

At any rate, point is that Barb I hope you'll stick around. Like Julie said, I think most of us who DO work our dogs on stock don't look at the ones who don't as second rate. I know I don't. It wasn't too long ago that I was on the other side of the fence having never even seen a sheep in real life before.

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Hey, check out my join date, not as early as some, but I've seen a few changes myself. I've seen it go from a MUCH more sheepdoggy board, to something I wasn't sure I could stomach as a person who, um, liked people, to something I wasn't sure I could stomach as a person who liked to talk about working Border Collies versus what my dog ate for his birthday, to the very nice mix I think we have today.

 

This very discussion itself is perennial. I'm sorry when it becomes personal. Really, it doesn't have to be. I don't know what the current problem is now. I'm always the last person on the uptake on these tempests in the teapots.

 

But, I can say after many years that even when they affect me personally that I've learned that just excusing myself quietly is the best thing. It's the time of year, plain and simple. Really. People are grouchy.

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Folks,

If you don't like the topics being discussed, post new and different topics! I don't get this whole "I'm scared to post" attitude--as someone else earlier in this thread said (or maybe it was another thread, sometimes they DO tend to run together), you (the general you) can't have your feelings hurt if you choose not to let someone hurt them. If you are one of those who is deliberately unkind to someone else, it reflects badly only on you (and your behavior is obvious to everybody), and the person being attacked can *choose* to ignore the baiter and move on.

 

As for the same old topics coming up, that's the unfortunate by-product of a popular forum that gets lots of new people. The same topics come up repeatedly. I don't quite understand the complaints about those who choose to reply to those same topics--I would hope that when the information/idea was new to you, someone was willing to repeat the "same old tired answers" then too, for your benefit. And again, no one is being stopped from posting new and different topics--saying you're afraid to do so is really just an excuse. <-- The truth and not said with any intention to offend.

 

If a thread is started by someone you don't like or whose opinions or "behavior" on this forum bothers you, then choose not to read that topic. It's a pretty simple tactic for keeping yourself from being annoyed.

 

If someone from this forum is abusing you through PMs or e-mail, report it to Eileen. She *will* take care of it. (ETA: Eileen is a pretty busy person and sometimes she doesn't get a chance to read all the threads in a timely fashion. If there is unacceptable behavior going on, I'm sure she would welcome it if people would alert her to that.)

 

All boards like this go through cycles. It's fine to lament the "good old days," but this forum is made up of all of us. If you find the topics uninteresting and repetitive, ignore that stuff and post things that interest you. Don't worry if your topic might be uninteresting or draw jibes from others--generally those who are disinterested will stay away and the troublemakers can be ignored.

 

I tend to agree with Mary P. In many ways there is a lot less animosity here then there's been in years past. Newer people wouldn't know that, but some of us can remember some real ugliness at times. Guess what, though? It looks like we survived it, many of us stuck around and continued to contribute; others did not, unfortunately.

 

At the risk of possibly offending some of you even more, I'm going to say that all of life isn't about "feel good." Learn to take what's useful, to accept people as they are (even if their tone, delivery, whatever tends to bother you), glean the good and the useful, and ignore the rest. These sorts of communities are what you make of them. Let them get you down, and it's quite likely they'll do just that. Make good use of them, and find the positives while ignoring the negatives, and you'll probably find you are much happier here.

 

J.

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Well, I couldn't even begin to say it as well, but Julie pretty much summed up how I feel about it. As someone who got her knickers in a wad a while ago and whined about "not fitting in", I'm glad I sucked it up and stayed. We're not all going to agree all the time. Barb, I would encourage you to stay, I hope you're still reading. Certainly don't let one person's unsolicited opinion drive you away from a board you mostly enjoy otherwise.

 

ETA: After re-reading this, I wanted to clarify that although I mentioned whining about "not fitting in", I did not mean that was what you're doing, Barb. I was only speaking for myself, and how I felt a while ago. I didn't want you to think that I was belittling your feelings or anything like that. I sincerely hope you'll stick around.

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Please stick around, Barb. I understand your feelings if some of the venom that a very, very small number of people spew has come your way personally. Maybe lay low for a while, but don't leave forever, eh? I have learned so much about border collies from this board. It's helped me to really enjoy my dogs in ways I would never have been able to imagine. That's not just because I learned about activities like herding or agility here, but because I learned more about who these dogs are. And that has come from posts by members who own working dogs, agility dogs, SAR dogs, just-like-to-play-with-em dogs, and couch ornaments, all.

 

Jan*

 

*Who lives in a busy beach neighborhood on a lot that I calculate to be 0.16 acres; who got her first border collie (and first dog!) totally by accident with no foresight, planning or other good thinking; who has never owned any type of grazing animal; and whose previous hobbies were all completely unrelated things like cryptic crossword puzzles and Masters swimming.

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At the risk of possibly offending some of you even more, I'm going to say that all of life isn't about "feel good." Learn to take what's useful, to accept people as they are (even if their tone, delivery, whatever tends to bother you), glean the good and the useful, and ignore the rest. These sorts of communities are what you make of them. Let them get you down, and it's quite likely they'll do just that. Make good use of them, and find the positives while ignoring the negatives, and you'll probably find you are much happier here.

 

J.

I have a good friend who is quite active on a number of boards and lists, and has always been the first one to comment that this is one of the most "civil" boards (in the dog world, as well as others) that she has ever participated on.

 

It isn't perfect, it isn't (as Julie said) about "feeling good" all the time, and sometimes folks get a bit testy or reactive. We can get over it and benefit from the positives offered here, or not.

 

Barb - I hope you stay. You have a lot to offer and have a vast majority of people here who respect you and your opinions. Don't let one or two negatively impact you.

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I am hoping that the person/persons who made you feel this way would at the very least, send you an e-mail to appoligize. I do lots of stuff with my dogs that is not exactly kosher with a lot of folks on this board. And I'm ok with that, as it is working for me. I do sometimes come with questions. I get an array of answers. Some are not in sync with me, some are. I take what I can use. It is a shame that sometimes folks get so wrapped up in what they do that works for their dogs, they think it must surely work for all. I was speaking to a person that has been around Border Collies almost all her life, knows most of the big hats on the eastern seaboard, been involved with trialing and real life day to day working on a sheep farm. I was telling her about Skip constantly bullying Jackson. And that Jackson, being his non confrontational self, didn't stop it. And that I had to intercede a lot of the time. She said, oh, well it sounds like Skip needs to be put on his back and forced to allow Jackson to sniff him. Well, that was pretty nuts, IMHO. But, I smiled and said well, something has to change. And went on. The point is, lots of knowledgeable people will come up with ideas and such but that doesn't mean they are etched in stone and that it is the only way to go about something. And I know that sometimes people let their passion over the breed get the better of them. And the internet is notorious for things printed out to not actually convey what the person is really feeling. This is a very large community, and everyone is not going to agree, or even get along. To expect that, is not realistic. Reply to the ones you want, read what you will, comment as you feel, but don't let things that the few say, define what you will or won't do. To leave because of one or even 5 peoples opinion is really unfair to the ones who did not "attack" you. You haven't said what it was that made you feel the need to leave the boards, but from the reply's you have had, I don't think it is a majority of thinking from folks on this board. Take a few deep breaths, calm down and if nothing else, at least post some pics of that adorable Spirit from time to time!

 

Remember what daddy always told me, Don't sweat the petty stuff, and don't pet the sweaty stuff!

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After many years of feeling welcome on these boards, I'm signing off. My BCs do not do sheep, I do not live on a working ranch (although we were actually thinking of taking HERDING LESSONS and I guess I'm tired (lately) of feeling like a second class citizen. Thanks especially to the person who sent the personal emails about the poor choice I made (actually it was my husband who is not under my control) in getting a new puppy.

Barb S

Barb, I hope you will reconsider. I have enjoyed your posts, and you are as much a part of our "family" as anyone else. Annie does not do sheep, and I do not have a working ranch. In additon, Annie does not do many of the other Border Collie activities, like agility or SAR (yet). But I do not feel like a second-class citizen; we are a community of Border Collie lovers, and there is a diverse representation of how our BC's participate in our lives and experiences and perspectives that we have to share. If one idiot disagrees with your choice with regard to your puppy and feels he/she needs to make an issue of it, that person should not be considered to be representative of how the rest of us feel.

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I'm not sure where this "not fitting in" stuff comes from.

 

First, we are all so very different here that it would be difficult for me to identify any "type" of poster as hegemonic: we are from all over the world, we are women, we are men, we live in urban, rural, suburban areas, we have all sorts of different occupations and political outlooks.

 

Second, I GUARANTEE you that I am one of the least "typical" Border Collie owners here demographically, and that I am almost always the "only one" when I participate in any Border Collie (or, for that matter, dog) activity. I stick out like a sore thumb to the extent that perfect strangers often approach me at events and say, "hi, you must be Melanie with Solo" (presumably because as a young-looking Asian chick with a red dog, there is no one else I could possibly be) and also to the extent that sometimes, reading the Coffee Break section, I feel either like a fly on the wall, or like I am listening to a conversation among aliens.

 

If anyone here should feel like she doesn't "fit in" to the Border Collie world, or this board, it is me. And I feel fine.

 

I don't read stuff that I know will probably just annoy me or be a waste of time (this applies to a lot of the Coffee Break section, for reasons mentioned above and others), and when I am busy or not in a good mood I don't come here. How hard is that?

 

I don't want anyone to feel unwelcome, but at the same time it sometimes seems like people go out of their way to feel unwelcome. Any community based on discourse is only the sum of its parts. If you don't like the way that discussions are headed, start new ones. I like to read new stuff on here too.

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Thanks especially to the person who sent the personal emails about the poor choice I made (actually it was my husband who is not under my control) in getting a new puppy.

Barb S

 

I always wonder why people feel the need to send private emails about a public topic. Hmmmmm - could it be a bad case of being ch!ckensh!t? :D Please don't let someone too cowardly to post here stop you from posting here. Of course, if you're just tired of us, difficult as that might be to imagine :rolleyes: , we understand.

 

FWIW, I don't work my BC right now. I'm sure I'll get back into it one day, but in this economy, you gotta make choices. My dogs can do without working sheep a whole lot easier than my horses can do without working at all, so I have to concentrate my resources on the latter. But I still feel perfectly free to share my opinions with the world. :D

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Second, I GUARANTEE you that I am one of the least "typical" Border Collie owners

 

There is no such thing as a typical Border Collie owner. If there were we would not own them.

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I used to recommend the board to others but I've pretty much quit.

I find things a lot more confrontational than they used to be...

 

I agree. If I do direct people here, a lot of the time it's to use the search command.

 

Speaking of the search command, is there any way we can improve it? I agree that too many topics get repeated, but a lot of the time I feel it's because the search engine is a little hard to use. Maybe I'm the only one that feels this way, but I don't think it gets specific enough, and not being able to type in any 3-letter words bugs me, I know there's been a lot of times when I've been stopped from searching because what I'm looking for is 3 letters long.

 

I don't think Barb should leave either... but from the looks of it she hasn't looked back since she posted this (unless she's come on anonymously). I wonder if RDM feels the same way, she's been on here for a long time as well and seems to have vanished from these boards. I'm sure there's others that have the same situation.

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Hmm, I have been around a long time too, I don't see the "negative" attitude, been here long enough to know the cycles. However, like others have said, report it to Eileen - or simply copy it to a new public thread and let everyone know and see who's being nasty! There's to much to learn here to allow someone stupid to chase you off.

 

Karen

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Barb I am one of the newest members here and came with no knowledge of border collies. I have learned a lot;one member in particular has been soooooo helpful and encouraging with a training problem I am having with Meg.

I have posted some maybe trivial topics but somebody always takes the trouble to comment which makes me feel included.

I would be hurt if somebody made an unkind comment about me .

But Barb just read how many people value you and your contributions and seem so genuinely fond of you. Value this and don't let a silly , thoughtless comment send you away.

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I agree. If I do direct people here, a lot of the time it's to use the search command.

 

Speaking of the search command, is there any way we can improve it? I agree that too many topics get repeated, but a lot of the time I feel it's because the search engine is a little hard to use. Maybe I'm the only one that feels this way, but I don't think it gets specific enough, and not being able to type in any 3-letter words bugs me, I know there's been a lot of times when I've been stopped from searching because what I'm looking for is 3 letters long.

 

I don't think Barb should leave either... but from the looks of it she hasn't looked back since she posted this (unless she's come on anonymously). I wonder if RDM feels the same way, she's been on here for a long time as well and seems to have vanished from these boards. I'm sure there's others that have the same situation.

I agree with the search command. Some things just aren't more than three letters long! :rolleyes:

 

And I think RDM is still on the boards, just not in this forum. I noticed she had posted something yesterday or the day before.

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And I think RDM is still on the boards, just not in this forum. I noticed she had posted something yesterday or the day before.

 

That was her first post in four months or so. And I think it will be her last one in a while, too. :rolleyes:

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Yep, searching can be frustrating, and I haven't managed to come up with any great workarounds for the three letter thing. I mean CEA? I don't think most people write it out! I've been here a long time and I tend to remember when things have been discussed in old threads, but even though I know those threads exist, I sometimes have a hard time finding them. I don't think there's going to be an easy fix though.

 

J.

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That was her first post in four months or so. And I think it will be her last one in a while, too. :rolleyes:

RDM is a prime example of what some people have been complaining about. She calls it as she sees it and doesn't really worry if the way she says things offends others' sensibilities. People routinely got upset with her for her comments simply because she was blunt and said exactly what she thought, so I don't really blame her for not coming around much anymore. Just as we have folks who feel like others are just too mean, the other side of the coin is that the "meanies" eventually get fed up too. I miss RDM. She was a knowledgeable and valuable member of this forum, but I suspect the whining chased her away.

 

J.

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People routinely got upset with her for her comments simply because she was blunt and said exactly what she thought...

Julie, your point is noted. There is nothing wrong with being blunt and saying what one thinks. But as one who was amongst the targets of some of those vicious comments, I would observe that there is a distinct line between being blunt, and being insulting and offensive. If one crosses that line, then any backlash one receives is deserved. Certainly, free speech is a fundamental right; but one must sometimes be ready to accept the consequences for exercising that right when it infringes on another person's rights to dignity and respect (not guaranteed by the Constitution, of course, but still rights to which all people should be entitled).

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Bustopher,

I agree that when one speaks out then one had better be prepared to be spoken back to, for good or bad. I just think that the distinct line to which you refer is different for every individual. What one person may consider insulting another might just find amusing, even when directed at them. When these threads start to turn to the comments about how people are afraid to post or that everyone should be nicer all the time, all I do is sigh. We are a community of individual human beings. We do not all think alike, "talk" alike, or behave alike. As I stated earlier in this thread, you can choose to be offended by another member or you can ignore the percieved slights/insults/whathaveyou and move on. I don't always agree with what others say, nor do I always appreciate apparent "attitudes" of some posters. I've gotten into it with others here, but you know what? You move on. There are plenty of plainspoken folks on this board and there have been plenty of heated discussions over the years (followed by plenty of threats to "pick up one's toys and leave"--and this comment is not in any way directed at the OP--or by admonitions from new folk that the old folk should be nicer). We're (mostly) all adults aren't we? Is this the only place we encounter people might disagree with us or be disagreeable to us? Do we all hide in our homes so as not to ever run into someone who disagrees with our way of thinking or who might be odious? Of course not! Part of being adult and being a part of a community, whether that community be virtual or physical, means being able to deal with the good ones and the bad ones, the ones we agree with and the ones we don't. If people go through life constantly getting their feelings hurt by others, then perhaps they need to stop laying the blame on the others and look in the mirror and ask themselves what it is about themselves that lets them so easily be angered/hurt/offended by the actions or words of others.

 

As for RDM, I have no idea why she no longer posts here, but knowing her, I doubt it's because someone offended her sensibilities. I haven't spoken (figuratively speaking) in a while. I've had words with her (and others) too, but I certainly didn't let it forever bruise my ego or stop me from joining in if I feel like it. I find it amusing that some people on this thread are complaining about the perennial posts (you know, boring and all that) when this very subject is one of the perennial ones. I have no doubt that these very words have upset a few more folks. Oh well.

 

J.

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And what about trolling threads looking for nothing but other posters who are complaining about the meanies, solely in order to fan that fire and complain about how mean people have been to you, too? And contributing absolutely nothing else of value or substance, but getting a free pass for it?

 

Wouldn't that be super annoying, if that happened on a regular basis? Like, if someone trolled like that ALL THE TIME and it was deemed totally acceptable by the admin?

 

That would be such a sucky community. It would not surprise me at all if long term members who had valuable contributions to the board lost their patience once in a while and maybe said something harsh because they were sick to death of that particular brand of bullshit, and then just stopped coming by altogether, if that was the caliber of their fellow posters. That would be a real shame, wouldn't it?

 

On another note ...

 

I try not to visit the boards anymore, for lots of reasons. I made the mistake of visiting yesterday after an email from someone, and reading through a couple months of threads and I really wish I had not. That makes me sad, because I did enjoy it for such a very long time, ten years nearly. My email, however, is always open.

 

RDM

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