Cody & Duchess Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 I cannot tell you how much I appreciate all the information on this website. I especially like peeking into the world of "herding trials" and the herding life. Some members have links to their own personal blogs or pictures - love those.Before this website - even though I owned a BC (got from rescue) - I never realized that there was the "herding world". I knew that there was agility , but not that there was still an active herding world. Question - those who participate in herding - are you ranchers who train your dogs because there is work to do or is it a hobby/sport that you participate it because of the beauty of it. Plus - in what sector of the country are you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 We have a small cow/calf operation in WV. We got the dogs to help out on the farm with the cattle. I would choose a Border Collie for a pet, companion, etc., at this point even if we didn't need the dogs for stockwork. I think they have certainly spoiled me with regards to any other breed. I have trialed in Novice before and don't trial at all currently, but do volunteer at the Bluegrass and any other trial I am able to attend. I do love watching good handlers running good dogs in trials. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnewe2 Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 I would call it my passion. I have trialed a bit, pro novice level. But I work sheep anytime I can. I'm inbetween moves at the moment but when settled we raise sheep and make a bit of extra money for the family. But it's passion that got me started and keeps me going. If I didn't/don't have sheep I probably wouldn't have so many dogs but I'll always have a border collie with or without sheep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stockdogranch Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 When I was at Red Bluff, the guy who bought my dog asked if I was in the livestock business or the dog business. I'm in the dog business. I keep stock to train dogs, but I also enjoy having the stock, and they certainly help pay for the whole operation. My income from the dogs comes from training some outside dogs, lessons (mostly hobby herders), hiring out to do setout for sheep trials, and the occasional day work moving stock for someone with dogs. I also try to start at least one pup a year to then sell to someone who really needs a dog for their livelihood. Starting the young ones is really my passion. I trial as much as possible (on cattle), which is not nearly as much now as it was a few years back, due to finances. A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 Hmmmm...sport, hobby, profession? Well, for me dog trialing is pretty much a sport (pastime?) I guess, because I don't trial in order to sell dogs, get students for lessons, or make money in any form (so not a profession). I trial because I enjoy it, most of the time. I hesitate to call it a sport only because it's really more than that for reasons that have been discussed on this forum numerous times. But I do think that the majority of folks who trial their dogs do so for the sport and enjoyment of it, rather than as some higher calling. I haven't been trialing much lately, like Anna because of finances and some other stuff I'm trying to do with the farm/sheep flock. I may try to trial more next year when the finals are in Virginia and I can get to them without needing a month off from work and a small fortune to get there. I had my dogs before I had my sheep, but I was raised on a farm and always wanted to be involved with rare breed conservation. So I have combined those two interests and raise rare breed sheep (tunis and karakuls). I keep a few hair sheep as "puppy training sheep." I enjoy my sheep in and of themselves (lambing time is the best!). My main ewe flock is rarely worked, except for routine care and feeding. Last year's lambs and the hair sheep get worked, though more often by other people than me. I'm trying to quit being so lazy and remedy that! Of course, the ewe flock may be in for a shock if I ship off most of my lambs before Easter! I intend to always keep rare breeds for conservation purposes, but I'm also in the processes of switching the bulk of my flock over to something more like the U.K.'s three-tier system. So I am bringing in mule sheep this spring, and breeding some of my own in the fall in order to produce lambs that are more consistent, grow more quickly, and therefore are more marketable. I love my karakuls, but they really are more suited for a niche market, and although I don't expect to make money on my sheep, I would like them to at least pay for themselves. I'm hoping that my mule flock will support themselves and help support the rare breeds as well. If I really wanted to make money and cut expenses, I'd switch to hair sheep, but I really *like* my woolies. So I've taken this year's trialing money and am sinking it in to my flock. We'll see how it works out. Oh, and in answer to the original question, I guess the sheep are more of a hobby, since I don't make a living off them. I don't make a living off the dogs either, so I guess they also fall into the hobby category. I like Kristen's answer: passion does seem like an apt description. Oh, and I'd have border collies regardless of whether I had livestock, but probably not so many. I am in central North Carolina (peidmont region); I guess that's the southeast region. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bo Peep Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 I am a week-end warrior. I have had border collies since 1987. The only breed for me. I trial back in the '90's, never got past novice. My son was young and trialed, also. I had 6 BC's at the time. When I moved off the farm after my divorce and my disease got worse (I live in a patio home now) I thought it was over. I choose a border collie for a service dog. I thought I would let him try out some sheep. Turns out HIS passion and MINE came back. It's been over 13 years since I've started a dog, so I need help. Do I want to go to a trial and get all nervous and shake and let my dog and me make a fool of ourselves? Hell yes. It's in our blood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertranger Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 I worked trials as a hobby for the first few years I had BC's until I left the UK. When I returned to the desert I found other things for them to do over the years. Sports, drayage and more. I would also take them to work. Unfortunately agriculture here is crops and not animals meaning there aren't any sheep in the area except for the wild Big Horn variety so I have no idea how I would trial train Jin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Billadeau Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 Pervasive hobby We do not pay our mortgage with proceeds from the dogs or the sheep. We are looking for a 25 acre farm within commuting distance of my job which will allow us to expand our flock and provide more training opportunities for us and our dogs. We're 1 hr northwest of DC just east of Harpers Ferry WV; within commuting distance of DC. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plychen Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 Both sport and work! I have job on a farm with about 700 sheep. In the Autumn I collect sheep for the county, 15-20 different small islands in i the southern Denmark. Besides that I train my dogs for trials. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllieMackie Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 I intend to pursue herding as a hobby when Finnegan is old enough. There are a few local folks who do herding clinics and lessons for people who own instinct-verified herding dogs in the city, so the dogs can try out their herding legs. I do want to eventually own a small farm with hair sheep, but I don't know how far into the future that will be, so for now I'll make good use of herding lessons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debbie Meier Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 Once upon a time Wayne trained his dogs out of necessity using them on his family ranch in Colorado and later as a forman in Kansas. Now, the dog training/breeding is a hobby though it has in the past been financially self sufficent, so I suppose some might consider it a profession just based on the revenue and for the good old tax returns. The trialling is a sport (expense) for us and a place to test what we produce via the hobby. We were raising and training dogs before we got into trialling, trialling is taking the hobby to an entirely different level, the training and type of dog we need to be competitive while trialling is totally different then the type of dog he was able to use on the ranch, but the same was true when we were showing ranch horses. It's not that you can't use a dog/horse that is good enough to trial/show, you just don't have to have it and if you never had a great dog/horse you didn't know any better anyway. We are in central Iowa, surrounded by corn fields. Deb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthfieldNick Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 I make some part if my income from my sheep flock through breeding stock, wool products, and (most of it) market lamb. What portion of my income comes from sheep depends on how many I have. I cut way down last year- only bred 24 ewes- so it won't be too much, but at one time it was nearly half my annual income. I had sheep before I had a dog, but only a few very people-oriented ewes. Like Julie, I raise some rare breeds (Cotswolds, and I'm seriously thinking about Karakuls), but most of my flock is cross-bred production ewes. I don't trial, but I'm becoming more & more interested, so may yet try it out one day. I just signed Nick up for some lessons, so we'll see what happens. I live on a funny little island in NW Washington State. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSmitty Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 I'm strictly a hobby/sport person, and I like the way you said "for the beauty of it", that seems to kind of describe how I feel. It's certainly a world apart from my other hobbies/sports, agility and flyball. I love it. I imagine I'll love it even more some day when I'm working with a more talented dog (no offense to my wonderful dogs I work now). I live in central Florida. I have to travel an hour to get to my trainer's, who has the sheep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cody & Duchess Posted March 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 Thank you so much for the wonderful insight. I understand coming to it from a ranching background, having history in it and keeping a culture alive . I so admire the people who have taken it up ( either going as far as getting sheep or traveling a hour for training) who live in cities or suburdia. What made you start. The commitment is incredible. It is not like you see it on TV (I have only seen it on youtube). Is it the love for the dog? The love of the outdoors? Or the love of witnessing something truly incredible? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnewe2 Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 I started because I had a dog that would nip at the neihgbors heels. I wanted to control it and someone told me that if I taught them to work stock I could put an end to the nipping kids part. Worked like a dream. I was hooked after the first time. It was the part about comunicating to the dog on a whole different level than anything I had ever done that got me. Then after getting sheep for the dogs, I found out how much I love raising sheep, and the general farm life. I made enough off the sheep to support them and a little extra for spending cash, but the tax purposes are great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bo Peep Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 It's seeing that light bulb go off in your dogs head. "THIS is what I was bred to do" After that, it gets in YOUR blood. It's addictive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 I had a rescue who came from well-known working lines. The person I had gotten a previous rescue from suggested I try the second dog on sheep and named a person a little over an hour from me. I already knew I liked livestock, and although that second one never went on to do much in the way of work, the first rescue did, and became a trial dog. I used to drive to that trainer's place 4-5 times a week. I helped with the sheep, etc., when I wasn't working dogs. There is nothing like the partnership I've found working with a good dog to make life on the farm easier, and a lot of what you see at the upper level of trialing is pure poetry. Nothing beats seeing dogs doing what they were meant to do, watching how a couple centuries of selective purpose-driven breeding has resulted in dogs that are able to read livestock and react appropriately to control them, while working with the human to get a job done. I enjoy the trial wins, but nothing gives me greater satisfaction than working through a difficult situation at home and trusting my dog to help me manage it. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stockdogranch Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 I enjoy the trial wins, but nothing gives me greater satisfaction than working through a difficult situation at home and trusting my dog to help me manage it. That says it all!! A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjk05 Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 We have a commercial sheep farm, keep the dogs for farmwork, and trial as a hobby. I started training my dogs on sheep as a hobby, living in the city, but since moving to the farm fulltime I do a lot less training with them. I don't spend as much time admiring the beauty of it, but I do appreciate the dogs in a totally different way. My partner's family have farmed for generations, he's always lived here, and has always worked dogs professionally at home and doing contract stockwork. We're in Australia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoloRiver Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 I am a weekend warrior and hobbyist who had no intention whatsoever of working a dog on sheep until I realized how nuts my first Border Collie, Solo, was. I decided to try him on sheep in the hopes that it would be a natural sort of therapy for him, because the world seemed so confusing for him and I thought this was one thing he would inherently understand. And it turned out that I was right about that, although he is not the most talented dog in the world, but what I didn't realize was how very addictive this avocation would become. For one thing, it is something that it is very difficult to progress at unless you spend a lot of time doing it. For another, it is pure escapism in the sense that it is not possible to think about anything other than the work when you are doing the work. I used to ride horses (dressage), and riding was my escape from my cares, but once I got into the dogs the horses fell by the wayside. Working dogs took up all of my free time, and working my own dogs was far more satisfying than going and riding someone else's horse. I had heard about AKC herding, but I have a tendency to extensively research, well, everything and it soon became apparent to me that if I wanted to learn anything "real" I would need to learn from people who used their dogs for practical work and competed in ISDS-style trials. When I started working my dogs I lived in Philadelphia, but I moved to San Francisco in 2005 and then to Oregon last year. Ironically, I found it much easier to work my dogs when I was living in a huge East Coast city than I have since moving to the West Coast. I had a much more flexible schedule back then, as I was in graduate school, and knew way more people in the local scene. Over the past few years, lack of time due to my academic commitments (not to mention the inability to fund my hobby on a postdoc salary while living in the most expensive city in America) and major events in my personal life have really taken their toll so I would say that right now I am not actively working my dogs by any reasonable definition of "actively working." Solo and Fly are both about 10 years old and on the cusp of retirement age anyway, but Jett is 17 months old and has been ready to formally start for a while now. She will be going away to be started this spring and then I will bring her along after that and plan for this to be my entree back into the lifestyle. I think it will be easier to work dogs when I only have one to work and not three, and Fly has such a tough time with the sheep out here that it is not really fun or fair to her to keep trying to trial her without really intensive tuning, and we're racing against the clock in that respect. I am not sure I have enough time to retrain her and still trial her; she will be 11 at the end of this year. I would like sheep of my own in the future, but they are not in the cards right now in the sense that I do not want them badly enough to make the many changes in my life that I would have to make to accomodate them at this time. And I don't see myself having a very large flock, as to be perfectly honest they would be for the dogs -- but I know those are famous last words when it comes to sheepkeeping. At the very least, it is my dream to give Solo some sheep of his own, before he is too old to go around them, and I think if Solo knew that it would be his dream too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soda-pop Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 I am a weekend warrior. I kind of got mixed up in the whole business on accident. A friend told me that she took her dog herding and I said "whhhat? that's awesome!" so I took my mixed breed and she likes to try to eat sheep. She didn't pan out so well but I was hooked! I kept my eye open for a border collie to come into the shelter and then Soda fell into my lap. I live in a condo (ha!) in the suburbs but I long for a place with space and hope that my next move will either be to a rental home with a few acres or I may be able to actually buy one (haha) with a few acres and then I'll get sheep. I'd love to have many many acres and have dreamed of having "property" with horses and livestock since I was a kid but now I live in SoCal and I'm not sure if I see that happening, but I can hope for a few acres. I drive an hour and fifteen minutes once a week for lessons... I wish I could go more often but gas is ridiculous still and my car is a POS so I make do. Anyway, I love the dog aspect. I love that it's not a made up set of asinine rules--everything is based in purpose and it's molding and shaping what the dog already does into a useful partner. I love being outside and I love working with large animals. [cheesy] I feel very lucky that I was able to stumble so blindly onto something that brings me so much happiness and joy and I know that it was meant to be an important part of my life. [/cheesy] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebecca, Irena Farm Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 One side of my family is massively into wide-open spaces. Great grandfather had a real Conestoga wagon and every few years when the town got more than one street they'd pack up and move another few hundred miles further west, finally landing in Three Forks Montana. I wanted to live in MO but then I realized, when I moved to VA then NC, that snow three times a year or so was as much winter as I wanted. I sort of felt like sheep were part of my future farm and grew up sucking down as much fiction and nonfiction as I could about ranching and whatnot. I thought collies were Lassie collies though. I met someone, right after I graduated from college, who had a couple of Border Collies and was active in the VBCA. I realized from talking to her that THOSE dogs were the ones I'd been aware of in connection with sheep. I started doing more research and wanted to do the whole sheep and Border Collie thing. Twelve years later - I like Mark's description, "pervasive hobby." It's all about the sheep for me, really, but to me the dogs are an integral part of it. I've been forced to severely pare down my numbers here after moving, but still find the dogs invaluable. Today I saw a ewe limping, got Ted, caught and turned her, and trimmed her hooves and found the problem - it took like five minutes after I got the stuff together (after the move just FINDING anything is something of a project! ). Before I had a good trained dog such an event would be a project that took an hour or so, if not more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gvmama Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 I get the most satisfaction from working my dogs by myself. I truck around to ranches on my days off from work. If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. :0) I love starting a puppy and growing with that pup on stock. Whatever weaknesses we have can usually be traced to my handling weakness. I'm not against working with the pros, but truthfully, the enjoyment I receive with just me and my dog working together is unparalleled. Each time we go out on stock we learn a bit more about each other. I like to trial, but the enjoyment isn't from competing. It's the enjoyment of working together making that inch by inch progress. It's the enjoyment of making that journey together. It's an addictive passion/hobby... Suzanne http://walkupbcs.blogspot.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carson Crazies Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 I got sucked right in, and it's all Becca's fault. Well, Becca and Ben's fault really. To make a convoluted story reasonably short I live in the city, and at the moment I spend a lot of time travelling around hither and yon to get my dogs on stock. At one point I was keeping some sheep out at a good friend's place, but a change in my life circumstances made it to where I'm unable to do that right now. The general idea is to get my house sold and find enough land (oh yeah, and a house to live in, preferably... or a yurt...) to keep a small flock, but for various reasons (including the crappy housing market) I'm just sort of waiting until it's financially responsible to do that. Even then the sheep won't be my main income, but that they and the dogs are my main passion won't change. I can't imagine managing stock without a dog though. With my main dog (who isn't even fully trained yet) injured quite recently I've spent some time trying to manage various sheep with either no dog, or a different dog, and it's been frustrating at best. The trialing is a good measuring stick for me and my dogs, and I don't know if it qualifies as a sport exactly (in my mind). I'd like to be, ultimately, in a position to have my sheep pay for themselves (or at least close to it) but I doubt I'll be giving up my day job any time soon. Editing to add: I very much enjoy sheep for themselves, by the way. Oh, and I'm in central NC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pippin's person Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 Definitely not a profession on my end but like others have said also something different than a hobby for me (particularly when I compare it to other hobbies I have). I'm a product of the Dallas suburbs who got intrigued by sheep after spending time on a small hill farm in Switzerland. Went off to college and more college; got a cat; got an adult life; got a terrier mutt, who we started to play flyball with. We were intrigued by Border Collies and sure we couldn't live with one; then we got one, who really had no interest in flyball; then we got a rescue. We brought her to a local trainer after her foster mom told us that she'd brought the dog to see how she'd be with sheep and cried as she saw a dog for whom the world made little sense suddenly have a clear purpose of mind. That was pretty much it--it's been nearly four years. We don't trial much (though we're going to the Bluegrass for the first time this May--competing in Novice, but then will move up to Pro-novice....probably....) because it hasn't really seemed worth the expense to travel around competing in the Novice field. I like trialing for what it points out about the dog's (and my) strengths and weaknesses, but trialing isn't really the most compelling aspect of working dogs for me. We go out as often as we can and don't have our own sheep. We are on a plan to change that and hopefully will be able to within the next few years. The sheep would be for our dogs but also just for themselves--we don't plan to ask them to be self-sustaining, though if they turn out to be good with computers or fixing things up around the house, then that'll be a special bonus We live in SE Michigan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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